[tmarks11]

never mind...

[maelstrom007]

I have never used Mach3, but I have programmed in G-Code. Any machine control software that runs via Windows is bound to have problems.
Windows is specifically designed to stop you having direct access to the hardware. All access has to go via the Windows API, which is the opposite of what you need.

[ihavenofish]

I have never used Mach3, but I have programmed in G-Code. Any machine control software that runs via Windows is bound to have problems.
Windows is specifically designed to stop you having direct access to the hardware. All access has to go via the Windows API, which is the opposite of what you need.

many modern high end industrial controls are windows based actually. the problems with mach3 are unrelated to windows.

[louieatienza]

I have never used Mach3, but I have programmed in G-Code. Any machine control software that runs via Windows is bound to have problems.
Windows is specifically designed to stop you having direct access to the hardware. All access has to go via the Windows API, which is the opposite of what you need.

As long as you aren't trying to push the performance envelope, Mach3 runs just fine under Windows. Even less of an issue with an external motion controller.

[ger21]

Except when using the parallel port to control a machine, for just about all Windows controls, it's the hardware that controls the machine, and Windows just provides the user interface to the hardware.

[maelstrom007]

Tormach are using an embedded system because Windows is not appropriate. Please see Engineering Documents - Tormach Machine Controller | Tormach Inc. providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

[ger21]

Tormach are using an embedded system because Windows is not appropriate

But the Windows controller that they used for the last 10 years was appropriate?

They switched because Mach3 has bugs, not because it was Windows based.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

(I didn't read the info in the link you posted)

[maelstrom007]

But the Windows controller that they used for the last 10 years was appropriate?
No, it was not.

They switched because Mach3 has bugs, not because it was Windows based.
Incorrect.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
I never do.

(I didn't read the info in the link you posted)
Please do.

I have a degree in software engineering and was programming in C on Unix machines in 1989.
I know enough about low level machine control to know that running this type of software under Windows is not a good idea.
Tormach have corrected their error. In their position I would never have made the error in the first place.

[inov8r]

Not sure I would call getting Cnc machines in the hands of thousands of customers an error. However, adapting and updating at the proper time is just good business.

[gary_808]

Most siemens cnc systems are on a Windows platform... no problems here.

And a high percentage of machines produced have a windows front end.

[maelstrom007]

Siemens make their own controllers.

In any case unless, like Louie suggested, you use an external controller, (which has to run its own OS), to bypass the Windows OS, the problem of not having a real time operating system still exists.
All I am saying is that the base concept of running machine controllers on a PC using a multi-threaded operating system is a fail. You need to control the CPU. All you can do in Windows is give your thread a high priority,
not total control. Nothing can be said to change that simple fact. Does it matter? Depends what you are trying to do with your machine and a host of other variables. I did not bring up the subject of Mach 3 on Windows.
My purpose is just to inform some readers that it is a fail from the get go. I don't need to argue about it because it is just a fact.

[klaas123]

Siemens make their own controllers.

In any case unless, like Louie suggested, you use an external controller, (which has to run its own OS), to bypass the Windows OS, the problem of not having a real time operating system still exists.
All I am saying is that the base concept of running machine controllers on a PC using a multi-threaded operating system is a fail. You need to control the CPU. All you can do in Windows is give your thread a high priority,
not total control. Nothing can be said to change that simple fact. Does it matter? Depends what you are trying to do with your machine and a host of other variables. I did not bring up the subject of Mach 3 on Windows.
My purpose is just to inform some readers that it is a fail from the get go. I don't need to argue about it because it is just a fact.

I have no problems with the 'fail' I'm running...

Siemens got it all wrong? http://www.sotuu.net/siemens/documen...-August_E1.pdf

Look under hardware and software requirements

[gary_808]

Siemens make their own controllers.

In any case unless, like Louie suggested, you use an external controller, (which has to run its own OS), to bypass the Windows OS, the problem of not having a real time operating system still exists.
All I am saying is that the base concept of running machine controllers on a PC using a multi-threaded operating system is a fail. You need to control the CPU. All you can do in Windows is give your thread a high priority,
not total control. Nothing can be said to change that simple fact. Does it matter? Depends what you are trying to do with your machine and a host of other variables. I did not bring up the subject of Mach 3 on Windows.
My purpose is just to inform some readers that it is a fail from the get go. I don't need to argue about it because it is just a fact.

I install/build/maintain/service cnc machines for a job...(vmc/vtl/vtg/grinders/lathes/mills/saws etc etc) they make a controller but it has a windows front end would you like pictures? Same with most fanuc setups as well now...

Obviously you know more than 90 percent of machine tool manufacturers these days.

[mcphill]

Why are we discussing machine controllers in this thread... SO not the right place for it!

[ihavenofish]

Tormach are using an embedded system because Windows is not appropriate. Please see Engineering Documents - Tormach Machine Controller | Tormach Inc. providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

tormach is now using a standard linuxcnc implementation with a custom front end. its not embedded, its not even custom at the core. just emc2 with tis new freely available trajectory palnner. the same one many here will use on their skyfire.
they use it for many reasons - because its free, because its now on par with mach3 for contouring (emc sucked hard until late last year) and because mach3 has one very serious bug that makes it hard to use in reliable production - but not because windows isnt suitable.

[ihavenofish]

the real time OS thing is a bit of a red herring. provided the hardware outputs are in sync to a clock - which a parport is - there is zero requirement for a real time OS for cnc. remember that your typical new PC is about 15000 times faster than what is actually required to run the motors. weather the CNC control software is any good is purely the responsibility of the person writing it.

[ihavenofish]

Why are we discussing machine controllers in this thread... SO not the right place for it!

weve discussed everything else here. at lease this is sorta on topic

[daniellyall]

off topic ger remove this silly argument

[mactec54]

All I am saying is that the base concept of running machine controllers on a PC using a multi-threaded operating system is a fail. You need to control the CPU. All you can do in Windows is give your thread a high priority,
not total control. Nothing can be said to change that simple fact. Does it matter? Depends what you are trying to do with your machine and a host of other variables. I did not bring up the subject of Mach 3 on Windows.
My purpose is just to inform some readers that it is a fail from the get go. I don't need to argue about it because it is just a fact.

You are completely out of touch/misinformed with what has been going on in machine control technology

Here is a link to one of the more advanced machine controls that run, real time using windows, they have been doing this since 1998, they are world wide, a lot of controls you see that major cnc machine manufacturers build, are using their technology, in their windows based machine controls

This should be good reading for anyone interested in machine control

Soft Servo Systems, Inc. | The Future of Motion Control
Soft Motion Advantages | Soft Servo Systems, Inc.
Software Architecture | Soft Servo Systems, Inc.

[maelstrom007]

I am completely out of touch. Thanks all for setting me straight.
A software layer is being used. A good article here
The Power and Value of a Converged Real-Time, Deterministic Platform | RTC Magazine
I apologise I should have started off with a question.
Now where were we?
cheers