[CNC-Dude]

The reason for this question is I see a lot of people thinking about switching to Path Pilot due to the fact all you need is a small upgrade (i.e. about $100). For me, however, the cost to try this out is about $800, or the cost to buy the Tormach Controller.

This makes me wonder if I am the only DWEEB who is not using an actual Tormach controller?

On my defense (as if there was any), when I acquired my first PCNC1100, the previous owner had this fossilified Dell computer (i.e. not a Tormach controller), so I decided to build my own. I have had zero problems with this computer, so little did I think some PC's were nightmarish in nature. On my second PCNC, I am using the exact same setup. No issues so far.

What horror stories can you share? Have you had good luck with the "pick your own computer" deal, or have you ended up punching some silicon to the smithereens in a bout of anger and frustration?

[inov8r]

I too am in the same boat. My Dell OptiPlex GX280 is doing wonderful. I figure in time the hackers will figure a way for us to implement Path Pilot in our old boxes. Time will tell.

[sin_arms]

I have a home built PC for my controller and I picked up a used dell for a backup. The only thing I don't like is that the tower doesn't fit into the cabinet. I also supplied my own monitor, keyboard, and cables. You can buy the stuff way cheaper and get better items.

[mountaindew]

I made my controller out of an 10 year old closet computer workstation. Figured I had way to many old expen$ive computers laying around here to ever justify buying one.
Setting one up with a limited, stripped down o.s. with all un needed features shut off was not difficult. It does take time! And master disks of course.
I have no computer problems and no real problems with mach or using it. I do keep the computer well isolated with a ups and true dedicated circuit and would expect it to run as is for many more years.
In order to use pathpilot I would also have to buy a tormach controller.
Not knowing if or how complete their Linux o.s. build is and how diverse the drivers for chipsets, bus, gfx, disk storage....... are included on install disk.
I would guess it would require a full Linux install disk set for the computer and then add on their control software and pcie card .
Anyway I plan on buying their controller with pp at some point and also will add their lathe / controller and enjoy a consistent interface when using both tools.
md

[rdsi]

I'm using my own hardware. Didn't see the value in the TMC, but that's only because I'm very comfortable doing my own thing.

I placed an order for the DVD only because I already have the MESA card in my setup. Tormach responded with they could not verify my ownership of a TMC and if I downloaded the DVD it would wipe my computer if I tried to install it?

OK, I get the hint.

I already figured out that LinuxCNC with the MESA card works pretty good. However, it's unclear how much Tormach's version insulates the user from Linux. For non-linix users there will be a learning curve depending... But if they control the hardware used it will easier for everyone involved.

However, LinuxCNC still has hardware timing requirements similar to MACH and the LPT port when running on a PC architect. The MESA card helps and allows for higher step rates (more I/O too), but it's still a challenge to find hardware that supports real time control.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Tormach starts including the TMC with the mill (price increase) like they do with the lathe. Eventually, they may even switch over to a ARM/RISC type architect with decent RT performance to finally put the PC to rest. Switching to Linux certainly plays well for this in the future...

[CNC-Dude]

I would guess it would require a full Linux install disk set for the computer and then add on their control software and pcie card .

MD, the Path Pilot DVD is basically a Linux install (did I read Ubuntu somewhere?) which also includes the Path Pilot application. Hence, with the DVD you have all the SW you will need. In essence, what you need is their controller and an empty hard disk (or SSD).

I think I will wait a few months to ensure the app is clean. Then, when I buy the controller it will come with all the HW and SW it can possibly need.

To be a Beta tester for $100 is a no biggie. If something goes wrong, chances are the cost will be nill (i.e. most likely Tormach will absorb the hit if the problem is on their side).

To be a Beta tester for $800? Ehhh... I think I am going to have to pass on that one and let all the brave users out there purify the process for me, heh heh heh

[Bryan Turner]

I'm using a 'regular' PC. Dell brand, probably 8 years old with a fresh install of XP. Works perfectly! Never had any of the issues others have mentioned, all the errors have been operator-induced.

I may try Path Pilot, but really there's no reason for me to move off the current controller. I'd switch to Path Pilot (or just Linux CNC) once this controller dies. I'm pleased to hear that they funded the trajectory planner, that is an excellent feature to give back to the community!

Eventually, I'll probably replace the whole bundle with a KFlop. I'd like to see higher rapids and better feedback-response (reducing feed if spindle bogs), instant feed hold, more configurable add-ons for coolant/air blast/etc. All of this would be trivial with a KFlop. The only issue I perceive is reverse engineering the Tool Changer protocol.

--Bryan

[samco]

The pathpilot is using a mesa interface card (pci or pcie hardware step generatioon / pwm and i/o) instead of the printer port. the price you are paying for the upgrade includes this card (you are pretty much just paying for the card...)

[SomeWhatLost]

I know they say you need to have the Tormach controller...
and I am sure if there are support related issues, not having one could be a pain...
but I wonder why you couldn't just install the required card into just about any PC and call it a day?
sure there maybe driver issues for things like graphics/chip sets/etc, but in theory you should be able to work around those?

of course, I went with the Tormach controller... mostly out of laziness, and sure I "overpaid" (by a factor of 0.00001% compared to the overall price of the mill/tooling/etc)... so my life is easier now when I upgrade ...

but still I don't see why you couldn't make any PC work?
may take more Linuxy type knowledge than I have, but it should work?

[PCW_MESA]

Eventually, I'll probably replace the whole bundle with a KFlop. I'd like to see higher rapids and better feedback-response (reducing feed if spindle bogs), instant feed hold, more configurable add-ons for coolant/air blast/etc. All of this would be trivial with a KFlop. The only issue I perceive is reverse engineering the Tool Changer protocol.

--Bryan

LinuxCNC can do all those things (and has for years)

[wtopace]

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS both have great driver support for most any hardware out there. I ordered the beta upgrade kit myself and I'll give it a try in a whitebox PC and report results so others can know whether or not it will work. Thankfully, I write software for Linux distributions all day long everyday in my real-world job, so hopefully everything should go smooth.

I, for one, am super excited Tormach decided to go this direction.

[mountaindew]

I know they say you need to have the Tormach controller...
and I am sure if there are support related issues, not having one could be a pain...
but I wonder why you couldn't just install the required card into just about any PC and call it a day?
sure there maybe driver issues for things like graphics/chip sets/etc, but in theory you should be able to work around those?

of course, I went with the Tormach controller... mostly out of laziness, and sure I "overpaid" (by a factor of 0.00001% compared to the overall price of the mill/tooling/etc)... so my life is easier now when I upgrade ...

but still I don't see why you couldn't make any PC work?
may take more Linuxy type knowledge than I have, but it should work?

I would agree. a Linux distro that supports your chip set, gfx and whatever is required. and some computer skills
I go all the way back to unix and x-windows gui! Linux distros are more or less built on these o.s. architectures.
md

[SomeWhatLost]

ooh... I remember x-windows back when 386's seemed like a really big deal...
but I will never admit to it in public....

[PCW_MESA]

I'm using my own hardware. Didn't see the value in the TMC, but that's only because I'm very comfortable doing my own thing.

I placed an order for the DVD only because I already have the MESA card in my setup. Tormach responded with they could not verify my ownership of a TMC and if I downloaded the DVD it would wipe my computer if I tried to install it?

OK, I get the hint.

I already figured out that LinuxCNC with the MESA card works pretty good. However, it's unclear how much Tormach's version insulates the user from Linux. For non-linix users there will be a learning curve depending... But if they control the hardware used it will easier for everyone involved.

However, LinuxCNC still has hardware timing requirements similar to MACH and the LPT port when running on a PC architect. The MESA card helps and allows for higher step rates (more I/O too), but it's still a challenge to find hardware that supports real time control.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Tormach starts including the TMC with the mill (price increase) like they do with the lathe. Eventually, they may even switch over to a ARM/RISC type architect with decent RT performance to finally put the PC to rest. Switching to Linux certainly plays well for this in the future...

Actually with the correct setup you can live with fairly large amounts of jitter, even 500 usec is tolerable. Its actually difficult to find modern PC hardware that _wont_ work (laptops excluded)

[rowbare]

I am in the same boat. I bought my Tormach used with an old Dell attached. I have since built a new control pc but I want to try PathPilot so I ordered a new controller from Tormach.

In theory pretty much any PC with the appropriate MESA card should work however the card is programmable and we don't know what programming Tormach has done so a basic setup may or may not work.

It may come that Tormach will sell the cards to people without their controller but at this point I am sure they don't have the cycles to support every random PC configuration out there.

bob

[shred]

Different PCs run Ubuntu slightly differently. I'm sure it could be made to work on a regular PC hardware, but Tormach can't support it because they won't have a copy of any random hardware themselves.

The Tormach install DVD wipes the disk and installs a fresh clean copy of Linux and the software. The system boots straight to the controller UI-- there is no sign of Linux unless you go looking for it.

[tmarks11]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Tormach starts including the TMC with the mill (price increase) like they do with the lathe.

I would bet you are right. Eliminating the variables in the controller would probably save them some customer service headaches.

Despite having lots of experience building computers from scratch components (I have 5 in my house right now, not counting 2 "retired" ones in the attic), I bought the Tormach Controller. I figured I could build the equivalent of what they sold me for less than $350, but decided that the additional $350 would be money well spent if I could get the PCNC up and running quicker.

I guess that has paid dividends now, since upgrading to PatchPilot is a no brainer for the price. If it cost me $800, it would require some deliberation of the value.

For those wanting some of the benefits of PathPilot, but not wanting to buy an $800 controller, this might be a good time to explore LinuxCNC. The downside, of course, is this won't work out so well if you have the ATC.

[KSky]

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS both have great driver support for most any hardware out there. I ordered the beta upgrade kit myself and I'll give it a try in a whitebox PC and report results so others can know whether or not it will work. Thankfully, I write software for Linux distributions all day long everyday in my real-world job, so hopefully everything should go smooth.

I, for one, am super excited Tormach decided to go this direction.

What Tormach is not telling you is that the Mesa card has special firmware that is required for the software to run. You cannot purchase the card from anyone but Tormach and unless you can prove your purchased a controller from them, then they will not sell you the card.

So you are pretty much forced into buying their controller from now on.

[MichaelHenry]

I used a Dell 8200 when my Series I mill was purchased nearly 8 years ago and it is still going strong with only a few Mach3 minor glitches. I bought a Tormach controller a year or so ago, assuming that the Dell would die sooner or later and just ordered the PathPilot upgrade for it.

Bottom line for me is that I don't *need* to upgrade to PathPilot but I like the better feature set compared to Mach3 enough to want to upgrade.

[Beezle]

I thought it interesting that one does not need to upgrade Tormach's most recent controller computer with the new cards. Does this mean that they have been shipping the machine controller board since last August?