[carlowens]

german design is well known worldwide for quality and craftsmanship, the chinese often try to steal that design but don't back it up with quality craftsmanship. looking forward to hearing about kamskers build in this thread, the rest is just gnats buzzing in the ear.

[G59]

the rest is just gnats buzzing in the ear.

I'm starting to wonder, what the hell have you contributed to this thread. Have you read all the post you have made here? They are all about making others feel less than or to add a negative comment.
You must really think your all that.

BTW, German design peaked in the 80's. Get over it.

[carlowens]

hmmm, i see a couple posts by me being a proponent of 3d cad design and enthusiastic about tkamskers build. i see you complaining about discussions that don't interest you i.e. regulations and going off on aarggh because he pointed out flaws in your design. forgive me for being interested in seeing what tkamskers design is going to be because he is the one who plans to market his.

[wendtmk]

Play nice in the sand box, otherwise your responses will be deleted and you will be asked to take a time out.

[G59]

forgive me for being interested in seeing what tkamskers design is going to be

You can see pics of it in the first page.

[carlowens]

You can see pics of it in the first page.

i see no pics on page 1, page 6 is one pic of part of his unfinished machine, previous pics are of other machines not his. i look forward to what he intends to bring to market.

[handlewanker]

Hi all, I think you can only go so far with a design before you come to the conclusion that it's been done before, and that leaves the only alternative to come up with some ground breaking difference or find a way to involve the Chinese without getting your fingers burned and have them do the actual off shore part as they can do it so much cheaper and then just add the mark up and hope the World likes "your" product and prefers to go with you.

Thomas must have some idea of the direction the machine will take, so if it's not too much to ask, can we have a wee peek at the proposed design just to satisfy ourselves that the wait will be worth it.

Heading back to post #1 to see if there are any design proposals I missed.
Ian.

[Tkamsker]

Hi i Agree because of the limitations we (i ) have groundbraking is Not verry likely but real World working and Good design will that is what is all about (beeing austrian i am ok with German craftmanship - i Simply know i get my Finger burner if i do it in China ,.. They will copy anyway But if they get the blueprint knock off are to be Expected. My advantage is that i work with experienced People WHO do lathe and Mill for more than 15 years. I also think there is no Need to reenvent everything. It is like iPhone Smartphones did exist before but why are they successfull.?
The benefit direct Access to the Factory .
So we Agreed on the Size of that machine will be around 600 in x around 300 in y z i sufficient 400 the Motor (for now) will be 2,2kw Toshibas vfd and an iso 30 spindle around 8000 rpm and atc able (because of legislativen i have to Build it as well ) then i Intend to use machine in Factory every Day and then we will See some changes ,.. To be Expected in January / February


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[handlewanker]

Hi, just a question.......having a high speed spindle and a milling spindle for ISO 30 means you need a way to change them over easily.......what method are you going to use to facilitate change over without undoing a plethora of screws etc?

With the SVM-0 mill to the SKYFIRE design the head casting is split on the spindle centre line to give a quick change over solution, but it does depend on the spindle housing(s) being both the same diam, which for the SVM-0 will be 80mm.

If you have the spindle(s) bolted to the bottom of the head casting with a flange, in the case of the mill spindle it will leave the top end free and subject to being pulled to one side against the belt pressure.....the high speed spindle is not driven by a separate motor so no problem there.

This does limit your availability of spindle choices with off the shelf buying, as both spindles need to either have the body diams the same or the flanges with bolt circle the same etc etc.

The same applies to an R8 spindle for TTS capability, and special purchases to get both the same will be expensive.

What do you have in mind for spindle(s) sources?

My choice in such a matter, where universal spindle options are not available, would be to have the head casting bored out to the biggest diam of the two spindles of choice and have the smaller spindle body with an adaptor sleeve.

It's a small consideration, but an important one when spindles are sourced from different suppliers.
Ian.

[Tkamsker]

Hi you are right i First have to See How the atc able spindle Works in real i do have 2 ideas for how to solve that , my question would be how often does someone Need That changed , the Factory Guys think of doing the whole Head changeable which Takes them 30 Min and then tramming ,..


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[G59]

having a high speed spindle and a milling spindle for ISO 30

???

I don't quite understand this question.

With available motors nowadays, you get high torque at low RPM with high speed(8~10K).

I must of missed something here.

[Tkamsker]

Do you have an example to what Motor you refer ,.. Wd. Where Talking of normal vfd driven and High Speed bldc or similar Motors we want more than 2 kW !


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[LeeWay]

Just for instance, my spindle has a 1.2KW AC servo motor. It runs at 3000 RPM. It is belted to the spindle at 1.5 to 1 I think, which makes the spindle capable of 4500 RPM. That may be a deterent for many, but it actually works quite well.
It has incredible low speed torque. 150 RPM rigid tapping in steel with a 3/8"-16 tap. I have seen it stall before, but well past normal operation.
A 2 KW, would be killer.

[G59]

Yes, Yaskawa 2.2kw/3.7kw dual winding. 0-1500 rpm wired in Y configuration(high torque) and 1500 to 8000rpm in Delta. (I think, it could be the other way around). It switches mode automatically when it senses low rpm.
More money, but the only way I can see it done without different pulleys or belt changes etc.....while maintaining high power at all speeds.

Just a thought. That motor starts at $1500 US. You still need an inverter(vfd) etc....

[LeeWay]

Sooo, you are not shooting at rigid tapping. At that kind of price I would expect it to do that too.

[Tkamsker]

I have an 2.2 kW Motor and Vfd in place i have now an Single contact for speed but due to tapping and Orient i will do an encoder (aß well for the lathe ) the machine Even has 3 belt speed possible speed is at spindle 6 to 7 k probably 8 i have to test

[LeeWay]

I will just give a shout out for Rigid tapping. I used to think it would be at best a luxury. However now that I have used it, it is a necessity. I produce parts that require a lot of tapped holes. I did not realize how long it took to tap by hand before and how many hours of labor I lost to do it.
Sticking in another tool and hitting cycle start is much quicker. That saves a big step in production and anytime you can do that, you are more productive.

[Tkamsker]

Hi I agree fully .. I test an modbus driver to my Toshiba Vfd which has an search function to spindle Orient ... And as well with encoder ..

[handlewanker]

Somehow, I don't think this one with a two spindle option is going to get off the launching pad, not unless it breaks new ground and has a new twist to mill steel and do engraving and carving.......which is what you would want a second high speed spindle for.

I get the impression that the mill being "researched" is of the common run for milling only......carving and engraving is not what you'd expect someone to do with a mill of the size being discussed, therefore no need for high speed spindles etc......by high speed I mean the 25,000 rpm water cooled type that seems to be the norm for engraving and carving.

With the SVM-0 type mill I decided to purchase from SKYFIRE.COM, there are two spindle options with the capability to do milling up to 7,500 rpm and engraving and carving at 25,000 rpm, and Defeng enabled it to happen by splitting the head casting as we suggested.....but only because I requested that the milling spindle was custom made with an 80mm diam body to match the high speed spindle body diam as opposed to the flange and ring of bolts method.

I may be mistaken, but I think the price is going to top the 10K mark if you want all the bells and whistles to ring in unison.
Ian.

[asuratman]

Hello Ian,
Skyfire still alive, can we purchase his stuffs?