[MichaelHenry]

I'm thinking about buying a 12x34 tooling plate for my PCNC 1100 mill and am looking for feedback from those that own or use this sort of tooling. For what sorts of work do you find them useful and what sorts of accessories are important to have in your work?

I tend to do very short run (4-12 parts) or one/two offs jobs and find myself tearing down and rebuilding setups more than I would like so I'm hoping that a tooling plate would help in that regard. That will be more important in the future as I start to use a 4th axis system. I'm also concerned about the possible loss of the table-mounted chip shield, but maybe the fixture plate would be a good basis for building a better system.

Mike

[WOTDesigns]

I am sure you will get some feedback on the tooling plate but I thought I would toss a few other options for you to consider in addition.

The first am most useful for me was reading an article written by IH Mills I think about pinning the table. I did this on my X3 years ago and found it to be an amazing time saver. By inserting drill bushings into the table I can make fixtures with pins and locate them without the need for alignment in seconds. Disposable blank plates, plates with vises attached and aligned or reusable fixtures just get plopped onto the table and 4 bolts quickly dropped through your holes.

On the x3 I just did two bushings 8" apart. Worked well. When I got my tormach I had a job that required machining 24" long parts so I put 5 bushings into the table at 4" spacing so I can place a fixture with 8" pin spacing on the right, machine, move 8" to the left and continue machining without having to adjust datum or re-locate the part.

Here is the x3 table with the two bushings
Attachment 259500

A 3 year old fixture I still use, but now on the tormach

Attachment 259504
Attachment 259506

A few tormach fixtures. Note the counter bored holes for mounting hardware and the cut outs on the bottom to fit fingers. The one in the first picture with the hand cut outs on top is a sub fixture with its own bushings to receive any of the other fixtures. For things that require LOTS of screws to mount parts I mount that, load fixture one, machine while loading fixture 2,remove 1 and install 2,machine 2 while unloading and re-loading fixture 1...repeat.

Some of these have run tens of thousands of parts with EZ LOK or keyserts. If a thread strips I just drill it out and install new insert. It the external threads ever bugger up I switch to thick wall in that hole. All thread locations are counterbore 0.1 so if need be I can re-surface 0.01" to get a smooth face again.

Attachment 259508
Attachment 259510
Attachment 259512
Attachment 259514

Regarding the chip containment I went super ghetto on the x3...but I'll be damned if it hasn't outlasted the mill. Super heavy cardboard enclosure bottom and I had a shower curtain enclosure built from conduit around it

Attachment 259516

For the tormach I went much easier. Easier than cardboard. I just spent $30 on some steel angle, $110 on 10 sheets of coroplast from HD (still have 7 sheets left, and framed off the tormach stand. No where near as elegant as most enclosures but for chip containment it works like a champ even when running 3/4hp coolant pump with 3 nozzles full open.

Attachment 259518Attachment 259520Attachment 259522Attachment 259524Attachment 259526

I had my doubts but after doing pull ups from it I think it'll hang in there for a bit. More strength /protection can be had by using polycarbonate or such instead of coroplast, and for using the fly cutter I mounted some 3/8" polycarbonate to a mag base and install on vise, or table or front of stand when needed otherwise those chips peirce the shower curtain.

Mind u I have tried several times to use the tormach chip shield and can't get it to contain a damn thing. This contains more than I need it to and I can wash down the white walls with my hose in addition to brightening up the work space.

Just some food for thought.

Brian
WOT Designs

[MichaelHenry]

Thanks for the input Bryan. I've read IH's approach to pinning the bed, but part of me just shivers at the thought even though I see the utility of it. What do you use for your fixture plates - MIC-6, 6061, or some sort of steel? Also, how do usually clamp your parts? Sounds like your mill gets quite a bit of use.

I also have trouble with chip containment and am beginning to think about ways to design a new table- or fixture plate-mounted guard. There's not much space where the mill is located so the new Tormach enclosure is pretty much not an option for me. Fortunately my wife doesn't mind sweeping up once in a while.

Mike

[WOTDesigns]

My "enclosure" is exactly the same footprint as the tormach since it's just a frame built off the tormach corners.

I use 6061 bar, usually 12" x 1" and cut to the length I need. 10" x 1" would make more since but they never have it when I order metal.

I use the Tormach for quick one tool things that could easily be done on a manual mill every day, but about 2-2.5 weeks a month I'm in production mode and it runs non-stop except part change time 16-24 hours a day. Some times I'll just take 5 or 6 one hour naps a day while both machines and tumbler are going for 3 or 4 days straight when running the spindle speeder since it's just far more efficient and I guess I'm still young enough not to mind. Heck I kind of like it. I end up cleaning more for some reason when I do that.

Clamping the parts is different for everything. Some I install spacers the same height as the plate all the way around the plate with a tapped hole in between. Then I align the plates against ground pins in the fixture and I drop bolts with washers into the tapped holes around the part
That way the washer acts like a strap clamp and the spacer acts like the angle blocks in a strap clamp set. Dog is too comfortable on the foot of my lay Z boy or I'd take a pic. Let me know of if that didn't make since.

Other fixtures I use regular strap clamps to hole material while I drill holes that correspond with the inserts in the fixture. Usually remembering to hold both the part and the skeleton that will remain.

Other parts I can use Kanttwist clamps to hold the plate to the fixture while drilling.

Brian
WOT Designs

[WOTDesigns]

The picture with the round shapes and lots of holes uses Mitee Bite uniforce clamps to locate round 3" cut bar stock to surface then machine a pocket and holes then flip and face.

I use Mitee Bite t slot edge clamps for making the fixtures and some time for holding parts on the table for machining too.

Keep thinking I might get a Go Pro and shoot more videos for my YouTube chanel because I've made a crap-ton of parts that had me scratching my head for the best way to hold them.

When people ask what I do for a living sometime I answer "I try to figure out how to hold metal". Seems like that's 90% of the work sometimes.

Another really awesome tool is the Talon grips from Mitee Bite. Amazing grip for jaws and I use them on the HAAS too pushing 0.5" EM @ 1.5" deep with 0.1" step over at 75-100ipm + FINISH PASS with a glass smooth finish. They are great jaws! I have the 8" for my 6" vises and will never be without them again. 1.4" thick part I can easily machine from 1.5" stock full profile and leave a 0.08" carrier after facing 0.02" off the top as the first op. Love those things.

Brian
WOT Designs

[CadRhino]

Thanks for the detailed reply Brian

Regarding the drill pins, I bought the tormach fixture plate 'system' but have not used it yet. It has dowel 'T' slot nuts so you don't have to drill into your table. I think you can buy just the nuts.

Thanks for the input Bryan. I've read IH's approach to pinning the bed, but part of me just shivers at the thought even though I see the utility of it. What do you use for your fixture plates - MIC-6, 6061, or some sort of steel? Also, how do usually clamp your parts? Sounds like your mill gets quite a bit of use.

I also have trouble with chip containment and am beginning to think about ways to design a new table- or fixture plate-mounted guard. There's not much space where the mill is located so the new Tormach enclosure is pretty much not an option for me. Fortunately my wife doesn't mind sweeping up once in a while.

Mike

[mountaindew]

Thanks for the detailed reply Brian

Regarding the drill pins, I bought the tormach fixture plate 'system' but have not used it yet. It has dowel 'T' slot nuts so you don't have to drill into your table. I think you can buy just the nuts.

This is what I was thinking would be a great strategy.
Lock stop pins in t slots in a few key locations for fixture plates to locate on. I would guess some precision might be lost and possibility of moving but still provide fast location for something like a plate that has 4th axis and tailstock pre setup or multiple vise locations all pre aligned. just lift, set, lock down check and zero out. I have no experience with such things and this only sounds fast and easy it might not be!
Cleaning around t-slot devices could also add problems I would think and a couple simple precision pin holes milled into surface definitely shines when you think of everyday use. Long term this is what I have planned and as Nathian has shown in one of his threads we have both built small trolley cranes with light duty 400 lb winch to move these setups on and off the mill table to a rack. Still this looks to be expensive unless low durability materials are used and not ground precision $1k plates .
md

[BAMCNC.COM]

I have pinned my table, I have all the t-nut stops Tormach sells, etc. Most efficient for me is simply Soft Jaws. You can have 10 different parts in one set of 7" extended monster jaws, I have 2 vises on the table aswell. Right now I have 2 different setups for soft jaws in them. If I need to go back to standard jaws, just take a 1/2" endmill and manually move it down the center of the jaws, and bingo - perfect parallel jaws while still retaining all the other soft jaw setups. I never remove the vises from the table, no cleaning of the table or anything. I have at least 50 videos showing my soft jaw setups. The time savings is well worth it, especially if you do small part runs, but honestly it doesn't matter. I run anywhere from 1 part, to 7000 part runs and the vises never leave the table.

[WP25maker]

I've added a plate to my PCNC 1100 but made it a 13" x 36" with some extra coolant drains to keep the liquids heading where they need to go. The plate came from Tosa and if you're interested I'd be glad to send you a photo or dxf. My intent was to simply gain more table space for more than one vise plus a longer bed clamping area for the 4th axis. My mistake was in the center to center spacing for the 1/2-13 tapped holes - they work well for a couple of my more frequently used fixtures to mount but I should have copied what was more obvious - the spacing for the vises, so that just forced me to another custom clamp arrangement and that works.

One other thing to pay attention to is that once you mount the plate, you really don't want liquids getting below that surface and trapped in the t-slots on the original bed. I didn't intend to take the plate off for a long period of time (and I haven't) but liquids trapped means rust and that's not a good place for it to be happening so I designed a modification to the blocking screws that came with the table to help limit that possibility. It's just maintenance - ignore it and it will get back at you... pay attention to it and you'll wonder why others have so much trouble!

The cost was pricey but the return value is worth it for the increased convenience. Hope this is of help.

WP25maker

[MichaelHenry]

Thanks for the clamping input Brian. At some point I need to sit down with the Mitee-Bite site and go through their offerings in depth. There seem to be all manner of useful fixturing components there.

[MichaelHenry]

Thanks WP25. I'd wondered about liquids and corrosion so am glad you brought this up. I would like to see a dxf of your plate as well as more info on the modification you made to the blocking screws if you woudn't mind sharing that info.

Mike

[CadRhino]

That is a smart setup. You are no longer using coolant though, are you? My problem is that I want to remove my vise/4th every week or so to do rust prevention which had been necessary. I use koolmist flood and staining will happen.
I have thought about fog busting then a 'professional' machinist told me about the respertory impacts he had at his shop and steered me towards koolmist flood.

I have pinned my table, I have all the t-nut stops Tormach sells, etc. Most efficient for me is simply Soft Jaws. You can have 10 different parts in one set of 7" extended monster jaws, I have 2 vises on the table aswell. Right now I have 2 different setups for soft jaws in them. If I need to go back to standard jaws, just take a 1/2" endmill and manually move it down the center of the jaws, and bingo - perfect parallel jaws while still retaining all the other soft jaw setups. I never remove the vises from the table, no cleaning of the table or anything. I have at least 50 videos showing my soft jaw setups. The time savings is well worth it, especially if you do small part runs, but honestly it doesn't matter. I run anywhere from 1 part, to 7000 part runs and the vises never leave the table.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I used coolant for the first 2 years. Get some Eezox and oil your table, or something I haven't tried is Dry Moly Spray. I use Dry Moly on my lathe bed to keep it protected where nothing ever touches it. Kool mist is BAD for rust if not mixed around 7-10%.

[tmarks11]

Keep thinking I might get a Go Pro and shoot more videos for my YouTube chanel because I've made a crap-ton of parts that had me scratching my head for the best way to hold them.

Please do so. Figuring out how to use fixture plates and innovative clamping techniques is an area that many people (including myself) need more exposure to. Trade schools tend to skimp in that area, where everything to be cut fits into a Kurt 690 or uses strap clamps.

[CadRhino]

Damn, I just re-read your post - 7000 parts(!). How long did those take? Did you have to do part flipping? Did your ATC help reduce time. Impressive

I have pinned my table, I have all the t-nut stops Tormach sells, etc. Most efficient for me is simply Soft Jaws. You can have 10 different parts in one set of 7" extended monster jaws, I have 2 vises on the table aswell. Right now I have 2 different setups for soft jaws in them. If I need to go back to standard jaws, just take a 1/2" endmill and manually move it down the center of the jaws, and bingo - perfect parallel jaws while still retaining all the other soft jaw setups. I never remove the vises from the table, no cleaning of the table or anything. I have at least 50 videos showing my soft jaw setups. The time savings is well worth it, especially if you do small part runs, but honestly it doesn't matter. I run anywhere from 1 part, to 7000 part runs and the vises never leave the table.

[CadRhino]

How thick are your aluminum plates? Where do you source the raw materials? I bet they are not cheap.
Thanks,
Nathan

I am sure you will get some feedback on the tooling plate but I thought I would toss a few other options for you to consider in addition.

The first am most useful for me was reading an article written by IH Mills I think about pinning the table. I did this on my X3 years ago and found it to be an amazing time saver. By inserting drill bushings into the table I can make fixtures with pins and locate them without the need for alignment in seconds. Disposable blank plates, plates with vises attached and aligned or reusable fixtures just get plopped onto the table and 4 bolts quickly dropped through your holes.

On the x3 I just did two bushings 8" apart. Worked well. When I got my tormach I had a job that required machining 24" long parts so I put 5 bushings into the table at 4" spacing so I can place a fixture with 8" pin spacing on the right, machine, move 8" to the left and continue machining without having to adjust datum or re-locate the part.

Here is the x3 table with the two bushings
Attachment 259500

A 3 year old fixture I still use, but now on the tormach

Attachment 259504
Attachment 259506

A few tormach fixtures. Note the counter bored holes for mounting hardware and the cut outs on the bottom to fit fingers. The one in the first picture with the hand cut outs on top is a sub fixture with its own bushings to receive any of the other fixtures. For things that require LOTS of screws to mount parts I mount that, load fixture one, machine while loading fixture 2,remove 1 and install 2,machine 2 while unloading and re-loading fixture 1...repeat.

Some of these have run tens of thousands of parts with EZ LOK or keyserts. If a thread strips I just drill it out and install new insert. It the external threads ever bugger up I switch to thick wall in that hole. All thread locations are counterbore 0.1 so if need be I can re-surface 0.01" to get a smooth face again.

Attachment 259508
Attachment 259510
Attachment 259512
Attachment 259514

Regarding the chip containment I went super ghetto on the x3...but I'll be damned if it hasn't outlasted the mill. Super heavy cardboard enclosure bottom and I had a shower curtain enclosure built from conduit around it

Attachment 259516

For the tormach I went much easier. Easier than cardboard. I just spent $30 on some steel angle, $110 on 10 sheets of coroplast from HD (still have 7 sheets left, and framed off the tormach stand. No where near as elegant as most enclosures but for chip containment it works like a champ even when running 3/4hp coolant pump with 3 nozzles full open.

Attachment 259518Attachment 259520Attachment 259522Attachment 259524Attachment 259526

I had my doubts but after doing pull ups from it I think it'll hang in there for a bit. More strength /protection can be had by using polycarbonate or such instead of coroplast, and for using the fly cutter I mounted some 3/8" polycarbonate to a mag base and install on vise, or table or front of stand when needed otherwise those chips peirce the shower curtain.

Mind u I have tried several times to use the tormach chip shield and can't get it to contain a damn thing. This contains more than I need it to and I can wash down the white walls with my hose in addition to brightening up the work space.

Just some food for thought.

Brian
WOT Designs

[WOTDesigns]

I just buy full bars from IMS industrial metal supply at $2/lb

Brian
WOT Designs

[GUIDOSAN]

I eliminated the chip shields very early in using my Tormach because they were always in the way. I use vinyl strips from strip doors attached with magnets that i can pop on anywhere the coolant or chips may head. The first fixture I made was for mounting the rotary table so I didn't use up the cutting envelope. It also makes it simple to set the same table on my old Bridgeport and run the tormach a axis while manually running the Bridgeport. It also reaches my surface grinder. Just make your cable long enough to reach (shielded also).
Guy

[CadRhino]

Thanks. That is quite a bit cheaper than I have been paying.

I just buy full bars from IMS industrial metal supply at $2/lb

Brian
WOT Designs

[BAMCNC.COM]

I'm not sure how much time, currently doing something like that, but only for 500 parts. 22 parts at a time in one 7" soft jaw with 58second cycle time. As for ATC... I wouldn't have a Tormach without it.