[bhurts]

For years I have seen people put lights under there sinks to keep there pipes from freezing. Mostly in rent houses when between renters to keep from running the heatpump or using fuel oil. Assuming this works is it seriously unsafe? The reason I bring this up is because my shop is only heated while I'm there and I worry about starting up my router when its below freezing. What I would like to do is put a 40-60 watt bulb inside the control cabinet to keep it above freezing inside. It has plenty of room so the light will have 6-8 inches of space around it and even further from any electrical boards. Is there any reason this will not work. If it will would it be safer to mount the light A-at the top of the cabinet b-in the center of the cabinet door or c-on the bottom facing up. Or I guess there should be a d-this is stupid don't do it.

Thanks
Ben

[PaulRowntree]

Is the computer in the box? I can see hard drives suffering from cold, and perhaps fans, but that should be it. I have my PC in the garage, and it has always booted up at temperatures down to -20 C; much colder, and I don't think I would be out there except for 'night before Christmas' scenarios . ... Steppers can dissipate heat, so I let them idle with the G540 active for a 5-10 minutes before putting them through serious warm-up exercises, then on to cutting. So far no problems.

[bhurts]

The pc is not in the cabinet. It has several other boards though. I have done just like you and just started things up and rolled with it so far. I do warm the shop up when I get there so no working in the cold for me. Well I say not cold but when its freezing outside the shops warm at maybe 50 degrees Fahrenheit. The reason for the bulb is I worry about moisture condensing on the boards when they heat up from below freezing. It hasn't ever happened that I know of but I do worry. The pc would be cheaper to replace then my routers electronics and the energy cost of one bulb running seems like cheap insurance to me. Maybe its not as big a deal as some people make it seem.

Thanks
Ben

[wizard]

I think you are right to be concerned both about the cold and condensation and the safety of a light bulb in the control cabinet.

Practical matters first: You do realize that hot incandescent bulbs are quickly becoming a thing of the past right? You might have a stockpile (yes I know guys that have hoarded light bulbs) but long term this is not a good solution.

You can get ceramic heating elements that screw into an Edison light bulb base. Don't ask me where as I'm not sure at the moment, but the ones I saw had exposed nichrome heating wire and thus would require an enclosure to make them touch safe. You would end up with a huge DIY project here to implement the controls, and safety circuits. Whenever you are producing heat on purpose you need to take proper safety precautions to avoid problems, in this case the big problem is fire. You would probably be better off to go to Hoffman or similar supplier and simply buy a pre-engineered solution for the machine that is already UL approved.

The pc is not in the cabinet. It has several other boards though. I have done just like you and just started things up and rolled with it so far. I do warm the shop up when I get there so no working in the cold for me. Well I say not cold but when its freezing outside the shops warm at maybe 50 degrees Fahrenheit. The reason for the bulb is I worry about moisture condensing on the boards when they heat up from below freezing.

Actually you can have problems even if the temperature doesn't get below freezing.

It hasn't ever happened that I know of but I do worry. The pc would be cheaper to replace then my routers electronics and the energy cost of one bulb running seems like cheap insurance to me. Maybe its not as big a deal as some people make it seem.

Thanks
Ben

You can consider just leaving the controls turned on. The big problem here is that modern electronics doesn't self heat like in the old days.

Other things to consider|

Heating the cabinet is designed to address issues with condensation yet many control panels have a big hole cut in them for a ventilation fan. So if you try to heat the panel the heat will vent out If the panel is equipped with a simple fan. You may have to look for an alternative cooling arrangement as the economics of heating the whole shop through the hole in the control panel isn't good.

While fighting condensation is a big issue some electronic components are temperature sensitive. Something to keep in mind if anybody is having issues with machine operation.

It is well worth looking into manufactures data for any motors or steppers you may be using to find the spec'ed temperature operating range. Some of the new tech motors have extremely tight tolerances. The result is that the cold might impact operation. Somebody already mentioned turning on the power to "warm up" servos or steppers prior to use. This is probably a good idea. However you might run into a gotcha in that modern controls often cut back significantly on motor power while idle.

If you have rational concerns about condensation on your electronics do realize that you will have the same issues the mechanical components of the machine. Anything made of steel or iron is at risk of attracting rust. Often the recommendation is to keep the ambient temperature ten degrees above the temperature outside. It might be more efficient to setup your shops heater with a controller that tracks outside temperature and strives to keep the shop ten degrees above the outside temperature. This would protect everything in the shop but minimize the fuel bill.

[Fish4Fun]

And then there is ME, living in the South, who has spent his entire life trying to keep his electronics cool, without ever a thought to keeping them "warm and cozy", hehe. Honestly, other than the condensation issue, I can't think of a good reason to ADD heat to a control box. If you MUST add heat, give ceramic elements consideration. They differ from typical resistive heat in that they are "constant temperature" devices. They are essentially self-regulating semi-conductors. Within the specified voltage range they will heat to a predetermined temperature and then the resistance increases and reduces the current, maintaining a fairly constant temperature. If you "blow a fan" across them, they consume more power in an attempt to "reach equilibrium", if you turn the fan "off" the power consumption ( and BTUh) drops dramatically. This same feature makes them fairly "safe".

FIsh

[bhurts]

Thanks fish4fun I will look into them. Do you have any idea who sells them? I also live in the south so this is not something that will run all the time. It was 5 degrees Fahrenheit for the low last night and will be 9 degrees tonight. It was only 23 for the high. This weekend it will be highs in the low 60s and lows around 40. I only want to be
able to stop by the shop and turn the heater on when its going to stay below 40 and I'm running the machine the next day. One I get things going I will turn it off. It will be rare for it to be needed more then a few days at a time.
Wizard, I do realize this is not a good long term solution. My shop does not have a heater. I have a wood stove and a ready heater. I only heat while I'm there. I cant afford to heat all the time. The shop has 10 foot ceilings and the rafters are open with the peak another 6 or 7 feet above that. Its 1500 sq. feet so not practical to even try heating when I'm not there. I hope to purchase a house in the next year and my top criteria is it has to come with a large enough shop that is insulated and will fit all my equipment. That is why I say anything I do now needs to be cheap because it will just be for this winter and at most next winter.

Thanks
Ben

[Spk64]

I have had people use these in control cabinets.

http://www.basspro.com/Browning-Ever...product/48906/

Steve

[bhurts]

Thanks spk64 that looks perfect if I can fit it in the cabinet. I live about an hour from the bassproshop so i guess I know where I'm going this weekend. Do you know how much heat they put out?

Thanks
Ben

[Spk64]

I have not personally used them but check out the comments on Amazon, sounds like it keeps the guns warm.


Steve