[quapman]

I finally got power to my building last month and have been chugging away at my new(to me) Tormach 1100, making small parts out of 6061 Aluminum.

I have no problem with the Mach3 "control", but when the machine is machining, it makes a lot of noise and my sidecut surface finishes suck. I'm not talking the sci-fi "whirry" noises...I assume those are normal. I mean clunky, crunchy?, vibratory noise, especially in the Y.

Is this normal for a Tormach or do I have serious issues, such as backlash, bad motor(s), etc.?

I took a quick Y backlash reading and it looks to be a good .002". That seems excessive to me.

I bought the machine from Billy and Will Moon, who made knives and robot parts on it for several years. They appear to have taken good care of it.

Serial number under 75, if that gives y'all an idea of age.

Thanks.

[mike sr1]

Could be spindle bearings giving the bad finish, spindle and drive vibration will cause this too but its more of wavy vertical lines in the finish. I would run the program with the spindle off (air cutting) and see where the noise is coming from, some of the older machines had stepper motors that were more noisy than the newer machines.

The lower spindle bearings may have gotten coolant in them as they are just shielded bearings and coolant can get in them from the bottom. With a few years of use thats a possibility.

I would go over the gib adjustments if the machine has some hours on it.

just a few things to check..... good luck

[Scott_M]

Conventional milling on aluminum usually leaves a poor finish. Make sure you are climb milling.

Scott

[zephyr9900]

quapman, please see my post http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...ml#post1061698 and follow through to the "Tuning stepper drivers on 3 digit SN machines" thread. I have serial 128 with the early stepper drivers and the tuning helped my machine quite a bit. Also using a more recent version of Mach3 will very likely help you. If you're anywhere near the DFW Texas area you're welcome to come by my garage/shop and talk early Tormachs...

Randy

[quapman]

Thanks for the quick replies!

This thread?

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac..._machines.html

As I read through these posts, "howling" stood out as a good descriptive word. I also noticed in the replies on other threads that 10ipm's seems to be the worst possible feed to use with the older steppers and, of course, that's the exact feed I'm using (for now).

Can I assume the pots are in the main panel to the right of the column?

I'm definitely climb-milling. I should have stated that I do this stuff as my day job (on a "real" CNC...LOL).

Is a Mach update free and easily obtained? (I'll do a search on that myself, too.)

I'm in central NC, but thanks for the offer, zephyr.

Thanks again.

[zephyr9900]

That is the thread. Yes sir, the stepper drives are in the cabinet on the right side of the column. The X, Y and Z drives are identical. I'm attaching an annotated picture. You need a stubby and narrow screwdriver to fit in the adjustment slot in the potentiometer. Although the stepper drives themselves have only DC running through them, there is both 120 and 240AC present in the cabinet.

The manufacturer's page on the stepper drive is still live at PROTOBYTE* -* ProDrive-2000 Microstepper Drive..... , with a downloadable PDF datasheet. The trimpot is labeled "TRIM ADJUSTMENT" on the fourth page.

I get no resonance (and certainly not "howling"!) at any feedrate or angle. All the jogging speeds (I use the jog shuttle--if you don't have one get one! You'll be very happy you did. ) are likewise smooth. I want to reiterate that Tormach owner Barry (btu44 here on the forum) is the one who pointed out this tweak--I'm just promoting it becuase it's a good one.

Yes, the copy of Mach that Tormach sold with the machine is licensed, and you can use the license file with updated Mach versions downloaded from their own website. The downloads are free, and you copy/move the license file over to the Mach directory. That process (setting up Mach with the Tormach customizations) is a little involved but there has been quite a bit of discussion here on the forum.

The new version of Mach is independent of the drive adjustment but both are good improvements in the smoothness of the machining.

EDIT: Your Y backlash is not out of line for the Tormach ballscrews, but you might want to check the thrust bearings and nut attachment screws for tightness. More recent Tormach manuals (downloadable from their website) have really comprehensive troubleshooting and adjustment sections.

Randy

[quapman]

OK, I tweaked the pots and the howling is almost 100% gone. Finishes seem a little better, but your spindle bearing theory seems sound. Ugh. Can a spindle be rebuilt or do I need a new assembly?

All was well until I got repeated limit switch alarms. I knew the X switch was bad (plunger is GONE!), so I removed it and tied the wires together for now. MORE limit alarms! Ugh. Took the Y switch out, opened it up and YUCK! Full of crusty coolant and rust. Bypassed that one and planning on fabbing up a bracket to use a the newer style switch. Fun, fun, fun.

Is that bracket available to purchase? Should be the one from 3 digit and newer machines.

[tbaker2500]

They sell both the bearings and new assemblies. The bearings are like $60, the spindle like $500. They have documents on the website for the procedure to replace the bearings.

Can you post a pic of the bad finish? I'm curious if it's just worse than your shop machines, or worse than a typical tormach.

[GLCarlson]

"Is that bracket available"

-Call Tormach on Monday. I'd be very surprised if they couldn't either find you a bracket (on the parts list or not), switches, etc. Or at least give you dimensions and specs.

You've got an early machine. To the extent that you want to, need to, and can afford the very reasonable cost, you can upgrade to effectively the latest version at least as far as software and control electronics goes. It's not required, it may not be necessary...but if you want to, you can. Tormachs are amongst the most maintainable and upgradeable machines ever, by choice and design both.

If you haven't seen them, there are several threads here on replacing spindle bearings. Based on past posts, it is certain that one or several forum members would coach you through the entire process.

[tbaker2500]

Youtube video on replacing the bearings, too.

[quapman]

Update:

I've done a bunch on the 1100 since my original post, but have been too busy to post.

I tuned-up the steppers and the shuddering is gone. Still getting mediocre finishes, but was too busy 3d milling with my "auxilliary high speed spindle" (15k RPM router on a dedicated bracket) to worry about it. Read on another post about facing the spindle. I took a peek at mine and it was a mess! Looks like the previous owner spun a tool hard, so there was galling and deposited hard steel. Once I got past that and the sparks subsided, it cleaned right up. Visually, runout looks 100% improved. I have not tried an actual cut since. It got cold and dark early!

I'm thinking of doing a Mach update. Any cons I should know about?

[mike sr1]

OK, I tweaked the pots and the howling is almost 100% gone. Finishes seem a little better, but your spindle bearing theory seems sound. Ugh. Can a spindle be rebuilt or do I need a new assembly?

All was well until I got repeated limit switch alarms. I knew the X switch was bad (plunger is GONE!), so I removed it and tied the wires together for now. MORE limit alarms! Ugh. Took the Y switch out, opened it up and YUCK! Full of crusty coolant and rust. Bypassed that one and planning on fabbing up a bracket to use a the newer style switch. Fun, fun, fun.

Is that bracket available to purchase? Should be the one from 3 digit and newer machines.

Im glad you got the spindle problem figured out!
I added a plumbing fitting to the spindle nose to seal it off from coolant, now I can blast the coolant without getting it on the bearing area.

I have a series 3 machine and I dont know about the older models, mine has a stainless shield that runs the full length of the table that covers the x limit switches, I sealed it with silicone and I get no coolant on those switches now.

I just checked the y limit switch and no coolant gets on it but it could use a shield over it as well.

I have all the coolant contained on the table and it all goes to the sump screen thru the table drains.

[quapman]

I forgot to mention that I fabbed up a quick angle bracket for the Y limit switch and it has saved my butt a few times already. I'll post up some pics eventually. Meanwhile, I just left the X limit wires tied together and tucked away. I don't use much X travel. I'll install the new switch there eventually. LOL

[mike sr1]

I forgot to mention that I fabbed up a quick angle bracket for the Y limit switch and it has saved my butt a few times already. I'll post up some pics eventually. Meanwhile, I just left the X limit wires tied together and tucked away. I don't use much X travel. I'll install the new switch there eventually. LOL

I would like to see your bracket, I need to make up one for mine..

[quapman]

The bracket is just a piece of 2 X 2 angle. I bought the limit switch on ebay. It's the same one that Tormach sells.

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[quapman]

Just a quick update: I've gotten quite comfortable with the machine and Mach, but also more and more frustrated. I knew the head was off a bit and finally checked tram with an indicator. .010 in X over a 6" diameter!!! About .002 in Y. I tried removing the right dowel on the head, loosening the bolts and straightening the head in X. Ended up taking out both dowels and got it withing a few tenths.

I knocked out the 1st op on 21 pieces of a product I make, with no problems, but my side cut finishes still aren't up to par. I'm figuring I might just have to live with it and spend a lot more time hand working prior to polishing. (I'm making aftermarket auto parts that get chrome-plated, so they have to look NICE.)

I was in the process of making a set of aluminum jaws for op 2. Simple spot, drill, counterbore, but when I ran a 3/4 end mill into the 13/32 holes, the machine shook like a banshee on acid. I slowed my feed down to almost nothing just to get it done, but assumed something was not quite right.

I got out the book and found the (lame) section on gibs. I dug right in and removed the Z axis waycover (I wish I was a contortionist) and took a crack at Z gib adjustment. Pandora popped right out of her box. I was able to turn the top screw (which, according to the book, tightens the gib) about 2 full rotations before it even thought about feeling snug. While I was up there, i noticed the left Z way lube line was leaking like a sieve. To make a long story short, I repaired that one by trimming it and re-using the brass compression "olive", but then found that the main feed line was also leaking and one of the flow limiters on that block was completely plugged. My re-use of the olives was also unsuccessful, resulting in continued leaking.

Sooooooooooooo, now I'm waiting on parts. I ordered new limiters from Tormach and compression sleeves from ebay. BTW, you'll probably NOT find these at an auto parts store, since they are 4mm diameter, as opposed to the more common 1/8 and 3/32 used on oil pressure gauges. If you could find 5/32, ,that's pretty much the same thing. I may try a different store today, since I really want this thing back together.

I've got my fingers and toes crossed that the gib adjustment will be a fix for the majority of my ails. I'm also assuming that once it's snugged properly, I'll have to go back and re-align the head. I'm supposed to be making parts to sell, so I can make my machine payment, not spending HOURS on BS maintenance!!!!!

[mike sr1]

I loosened the dowel pin in the left side of the head to tram the x, mine is pretty much on now, the y is still off a tad but I can live with it.

My finishes improved very much when I balanced the spindle and drive assembly, there is a thread on that from about a year ago or so..

edit:

I love my Tormach but...... is the name of the post, quite a few pages long but all the info is in there that I and others have done to improve the balance.

[tbaker2500]

I was in the process of making a set of aluminum jaws for op 2. Simple spot, drill, counterbore, but when I ran a 3/4 end mill into the 13/32 holes, the machine shook like a banshee on acid. I slowed my feed down to almost nothing just to get it done, but assumed something was not quite right.

Drilling a 3/4" hole, in my experience, will cause machine shaking. The tormach does not have the low RPM torque and rigidity to do that cut at full speeds.

[quapman]

It's a good thing my hair is short or I'd be pulling it all out.

Took a shot at adjusting the Z gib. Loosened the bottom screw, turned in the top. Still over .015" slop when I physically push up on the head. More screw adjustment, more frustration. Top screw is pretty much bottomed out now, So I remove the top screw altogether, thinking I can put a few washers under it to achieve more down movement on the gib. Still nada. I put it back together normally without washers and watch the gib from the top while I jog the Z. The gib comes up and out as the head does. Shoot me now. Who says these machines are junk? Damn them and their accurate statements!

I'm taking a quick lunch, but my next plan is to make a tabbed washer that actually contacts the top of the gib...you know...like a normal machine. Is it possible that there's a groove in the gib that the screw rides in like a Bridgeport???

[quapman]

OK...I'm done, back inside, showered and on the couch for the day...LOL

I went with the home made tabbed washer and it did the trick. Down to .0015 runout pushing on the head and about .001 in X tram and a little less than .001 in Y. I didn't even have to re-tweak the head. If everything stays put, I might re-dowel it soon.

I'm too beat up to cut any chips, but have a much warmer, fuzzier feeling now. :wee:

That's my knockoff Indicol in the pic with me pushing on the head.