[rrobb]

The notion that a corporation will protect your assets when you, the owner, is the only employee is ridiculous.

If a lawsuit is warranted, the corporation and the individual will both be named as defendants.

The only thing you get for incorporating is additional accounting requirements.

The courts have examined this scenario many times and it's usually viewed as an attempt to game the legal system. It's not looked on favorably by judges or juries.

Liability insurance coverage is the best way to protect your assets.

[sansbury]

The design is unique and very well received but, they have not sold like I expected they would. It's mostly my fault because I refuse to kiss up to the magazine editors and give them all kinds of free stuff. So, I basically have no marketing other than a few press releases, word of mouth, and Ebay.

This is the most important thing said in this thread. Nothing easy to make sells itself. If you have a decent CNC mill you can definitely get little "jobs" from time to time but if you want consistent income (even small) then you have to be actively marketing and selling. If your goal is to make money then selling is more important than making, sad but true.

[etard]

I have been thinking about this thread and have come to an interesting conclusion about the responses I have recieved so far.

First off, thanks for being a reality check guys, it is always good to have experience voice it's concerns in the face of a starry-eyed newbie.

Second, it seems to be much easier to be come up with reasons why it can't be done, than how it can be done. Also, naysayers seem to be more vocal and prevelant than supporters. Possible reasons for this could be a flooded marketplace were folks are actually trying to protect thier position than actually give a helping hand? I can't blame business-minded folk for this response, it only makes good business sense.

Third, I find it hilarious that guys on a CNC forum are trying to talk me out of buying a CNC machine. I have never experienced this on any other forums. For instance, if on the Triumphrat forum I posted a motorcycle I like and wanted to buy, I seriously doubt I would recieve a single response stating all the various reasons I should not buy a motorcycle. "Motorcycles are dangerous" "You will never be able to take your family on vacation on that" "Parts are so expensive" "Don't forget about the cost of insurance" "You'll shoot your eye out" :nono:

And then don't get me started on how every discussion on a machining forum always seems to end up in the same place: Boohoo, the Chinese take all our jobs, we can't do it here, Obama needs your money to fly Air Force 1, California sucks.

The way I see it, the scales are slowly tipping in favor of garage businesses making parts in the good ol' USA again, it's time for the haters and naysayers to retire and shrivel up in front of the TV and let the makers and doers turn this train around. Which makes me a big fat hypocrate considering I am in the market to buy a Chinese CNC machine. LOL How much was that baby Tormach again?

[TiagoSantos]

The Tormach is as much a Chinese machine as every other "hobby" CNC machine

Anyway - the responses you got were related to the question you asked. You didn't openly ask if you should buy a CNC machine, you wanted to know if it made financial sense given the details you gave us - and the responses were very realistic!

NO ONE here will ever tell you not to buy a CNC machine if you WANT one! That's the whole point of this thing for most of us. I'd say at least half of the users here spent thousands on their machines and will never make that money back or build enough stuff to make up the cost. If you want one, feel like learning and experimenting with making chips, GO FOR IT! It's a lot of fun and if you have the $$ for it, do it now! But that is very different than telling you "dude, you're gonna make soooo much money! Your wife is going to love you because this thing will change your life for the better". It most likely won't make you that much money, if at all, and there's a small chance it'll consume your life like a drug.

edit: to use the motorcycle analogy.. If you posted on the Triumph forum saying you were taking motorcycle lessons and were about to get your license, and were thinking of buying a bike to have some fun on weekends, what would the responses be? Now what if you said that you wanted to convince your wife that if you bought a bike, you could become a professional racer?

[sansbury]

The way I see it, the scales are slowly tipping in favor of garage businesses making parts in the good ol' USA again, it's time for the haters and naysayers to retire and shrivel up in front of the TV and let the makers and doers turn this train around.

I've been working at my own business full-time since 2004, currently employing 14 people and have added people every year from '08 to present. Needless to say I am all for entrepreneurship but you have to be careful about being too optimistic and over-extending yourself. I'm currently starting up a side project doing some research on some long-term technology ideas I have and making a few parts here and there. The bank loan officer asked how much profit I expected to make in the first year. NONE! I said. They know I'm honest now. I could write a check to cover it all but if they want to give me money at 4.5% for 5 years then I might just take them up on it and sock the cash away. The reality is that most of that initial money that goes in, whether it's to buy equipment, pay rent, whatever, consider that money dead and gone. Even if it's all equipment you'll probably be lucky to get over 50% back if you sell it all in like-new condition in 12 months because it didn't work out and you need the money for home repairs, doctor's bills, or what-have-you.

If you want to talk business then the first question I'd ask is how many parts a week/month you can sell and how much can you sell them for. How many forum posts per week/month do you see on these other forums looking for someone to make parts? Do deals ever happen or is it all just talk once people find out it's going to cost $100 instead of $20? How many of those jobs would fit on the machine you plan to buy? IMHO it is very hard to make much money with a smaller hobby mill. They could be adequate for prototyping parts for a product you get manufactured elsewhere, maybe even China! (Ducks and runs)

I am not trying to be discouraging. But I have watched a lot of people try running businesses of varying sizes and failing badly. The easiest thing to do is to spend all kinds of money setting yourself up with no firm idea of how you were going to bring the sales in once you were ready. My technique was that I "sold" my company's product before we even finished building it. In my case I'd go out and make presentations to buyers and then ask them to buy it for price $X. Nobody asked for a contract and most said "no way!" but enough said they'd consider it that I felt like we'd be able to close deals once the product was ready. So to make a long story short, validate that your market actually exists!

Now if you want to spend $6k on toys, understanding that they are toys, then I along with everyone else here will tell you DO IT! If you make a few hundred bucks here and there then take the wife to a nice dinner and be happy.

[rlockwood]

I'd rather see people buy low-cost reliable chinese machine tools and use them to produce high value US made goods, than buy chinese crap from walmart that they promptly throw away a few months later.

Buy the best machine you can truly afford. Whatever you're doing, you need to have enough cash left over to purchase raw materials, cutting tools, and keep the lights on.

Production is much less about the machine tool and more about the person using it. Underpowered machine tools with their spindles running produce far better than over-powered ones that sit. Its important that the machine have enough power to be reliable, though.

For prototype parts, the main reason a productive machine is important is this..

When you have 10 hours into a part and (*&^ it up, its far more frustrating than when you have 20 minutes into it, and its usually not frustrating at all if you have a couple backup parts. This is often the reality with small, under-powered, non tool-changer machines. On the production machine, you can usually make a half dozen of the same part nearly as quickly as the first - The lack of a tool changer will make these "small batch" production runs very tedious-- if each part takes 7 tools, you have to load and unload them 7 times for each part. You likely wont choose to do so, after all, you only NEED one good one.

I'm in roughly the same boat here, trying to decide what makes the most sense for me. I'm patiently awaiting a novakon tool changer, or a cheap VMC to drop in my lap. I've basically narrowed it down to those two options. The tormach is great, but it ends up rather expensive when all configured.

[wizard]

The notion that a corporation will protect your assets when you, the owner, is the only employee is ridiculous.

This does vary a bit from state to state

If a lawsuit is warranted, the corporation and the individual will both be named as defendants.

The only thing you get for incorporating is additional accounting requirements.

This isn't exactly true either.

The courts have examined this scenario many times and it's usually viewed as an attempt to game the legal system. It's not looked on favorably by judges or juries.

It really depends upon what you are in front of the judge for. The whole point of corporations is to limit personal repaonsibility. Think about the recent banking fiasco, how many presidents of these banks where held personally liable? Unless there is fraud or other illegal activities a corporation will shield you a bit.

Liability insurance coverage is the best way to protect your assets.

Which is part of setting up a corporation.

[wizard]

I have been thinking about this thread and have come to an interesting conclusion about the responses I have recieved so far.

First off, thanks for being a reality check guys, it is always good to have experience voice it's concerns in the face of a starry-eyed newbie.

Second, it seems to be much easier to be come up with reasons why it can't be done, than how it can be done. Also, naysayers seem to be more vocal and prevelant than supporters. Possible reasons for this could be a flooded marketplace were folks are actually trying to protect thier position than actually give a helping hand? I can't blame business-minded folk for this response, it only makes good business sense.

Your response above is so out of left field that I really don't know if you are joking or just don't grasp what has Been said here. What most of us are trying to point out is that if you go into business selling stuff, especially stuff you make, you have to protect yourself. If you don't understand that you need to really get a reality check with a lawyer specializing in business law who also understands what your liability would be.

Third, I find it hilarious that guys on a CNC forum are trying to talk me out of buying a CNC machine.

Have you no ability to read for content? Nobody has said anything about not buying a CNC machine. Nothing in this thread even implies that. We have tried to address your questions about what it costs to run a machine. That cost involves a lot more than just the cost of the iron. It boggles my mind that you would ask a question about business and then reject the answers because you don't want to hear them. Buying a CNC machine for personal use is massively different than setting up shop as a commercial enterprise.

I have never experienced this on any other forums. For instance, if on the Triumphrat forum I posted a motorcycle I like and wanted to buy, I seriously doubt I would recieve a single response stating all the various reasons I should not buy a motorcycle. "Motorcycles are dangerous" "You will never be able to take your family on vacation on that" "Parts are so expensive" "Don't forget about the cost of insurance" "You'll shoot your eye out" :nono:

Again what does that have to do with setting up a business.

And then don't get me started on how every discussion on a machining forum always seems to end up in the same place: Boohoo, the Chinese take all our jobs, we can't do it here, Obama needs your money to fly Air Force 1, California sucks.

California does suck!

The way I see it, the scales are slowly tipping in favor of garage businesses making parts in the good ol' USA again, it's time for the haters and naysayers to retire and shrivel up in front of the TV and let the makers and doers turn this train around. Which makes me a big fat hypocrate considering I am in the market to buy a Chinese CNC machine. LOL How much was that baby Tormach again?

If you really believe that then do what is required to set up a proper business. If you think the environment is right for it then go for it. That means stepping into the business world and taking on the same responsibilities ever other business takes on. That means paying taxes, buying insurance and taking care of all of the other expenses.

Realizing what these expenses are is how you figure out how much it will cost you to run that CNC machine. I've looked into business here in New York and after a couple weeks in small business seminars I realized it wasn't worth my time and frankly I didn't have the cash to do it right. You need to make a lot of money right off the bat to stay afloat in NY. It sucks actually to be in NY too. The reality is if you want to see a revival of manufacturing and be part of that revival then you really need to be in a state that is pro business. Even so the requirements for insurance remain the same. In the end what we tried to answer was the question you started this thread with, the cost of running that machine is a function of the type of business you create and the products you sell, there is no snap answer.

[DonKes]

Wizard

Im glad you are having a good day today.

Don

[Gregj888]

Hi all, new to the list and never thought my first post would be in a thread like this, but it such an interesting thread.

Etard, count me as one who wishes you well and am happy to answer question if I can. We do need more Jobs here in the US… In my reading of the posts I thought everyone was trying to be as helpful as they can with the information at hand. You may want to leave it for a day or two then come back and re-read what’s been said. Assume everyone is intending to be positive, and take the suggestions to heart even if you don’t follow them.

Some additional comments from having my own business over the past 10 years (and ugly years at that).

Decide if this is a business or hobby. If it’s a business, write a real business plan and have it reviewed but someone that’s used to looking at such plans. If you don’t know anyone, check the business department of the local collage and/or the SBA. The small Business Admin. Can be very helpful even if it’s just classes on Quickbooks and Taxes. Do not underestimate the business side: book keeping, marketing, sales etc.

Starting small as a hobby is fine, as is starting small. Just remember that starting small does not change your liability issues and may have other negitive as well as some positive trade-offs. I would just want to know what they are going in.

To finish the introduction, I have a brand new HF-X2 I’m planning to CNC (more later) and an old Atlas Lathe. The lathe is waiting on a new VFD as the old motor gave up while I was turning a belt conversion pulley for the X-2… VFD and motor should be here Tuesday…

Way too long for a first post, sorry. Have a great weekend all, think it's time for a beer... all the sharp tools are put away.

Greg

[handlewanker]

Hi all........whewwww, for those that want to sit back and make money watching the machinery do it for you.....it ain't gonna happen on a budget dollar business.

I think in the case of Etard, if you buy what you can afford, work it to it's utmost, make some money from the small production you anticipate, show the results that you can make more than you spend, then go and buy a better machine, like maybe a Tormach 770....but if that is considered a POS machine for the type of work you indicated.......go back to bed, dream of cold drinks on a warm beach and tell yourself "There but for the love of God go I".

The bottom line is, DON'T give up your daytime job......seriously, you can make decent pocket money that will put money in your pocket and pay for the equipment, if you have the strength to work 15 hours a day and 7 days a week getting there......your hourly rate won't be calculateable.

What's your money package worth for set-up?.......you probably need a couple of grand just to purchase a mill that is already a CNC mill, NOT A MANUAL MILL CNC LOOKALIKE HOBBY RETROFIT.

If you do think a hobby mill that was designed to be a manual mill and sprouts wings to fly can make money, then those that have done it will tell you it still cost a couple of grand to get the mill in the first place before you tear it apart, throw or sell the parts you don't need and spend another couple of grand on the retrofit parts.

Now we're already into at least $5,000 for a hobby manual CNC lookalike retrofitted mill, whereas if you surfed the market and priced the start out mills already being sold as dedicated CNC from the beginning, you'd be making some sense.

Just don't expect to give up your daytime job to work all hours in your garage ($5 an hour) and be a business man without either a product you have designed and can make against those people who will copy it and make it cheaper and more of them quicker.

If its hobby related, it's pocket money, but you're selling your life for money when you work all your spare time mincing metal, and you can't buy your life back for all the gold and silver in the World.
Ian.

[recordingwhiz]

Wow.. sorry you didn't get the answers you were hoping to get,

I really dont think ANYONE here tried to steer you away from getting a CNC mill, quite the opposite, we all here either have one (or more like me) or are in the process of converting one. We enjoy having more people at the party so they say.

If you want to get one then by all means get it, welcome to the club. will it pay for itself within a year? not likely. that is the sad truth, some folk are NOT trying to put you or your intentions down, if anything they are trying to look out for you and help you identify pitfalls so you dont make possible huge life altering mistakes.

There is a lot of investment besides the machine that is substantial in acquiring a full running rig. Things like tooling, vises/fixturing, software (that could end up more than the machine itself) not to mention the time of overcoming the learning curves of he various software.

you asked in your original post to help you sell it to your significant other that in can pay for itself in a year, sorry that is NOT likely. However you can have TONS of fun and education going thru the process of learning HOW to make parts, knowledge that IS very valuable and then after you have gone thru that process can you work out a realistic hourly cost to run the machine, since it is up to YOUR knowledge and skills, consider the first year a learning course, then by the time you get good enough to make the parts you want then you will actually have the figures you need.

Buy a CNC machine, Have FUN, Learn. then make your parts, then see how they sell, then and only then can you have the answer you seek.

There is nothing more rewarding than to know that if you are a tinkerer and have other mechanical type hobbies that you can just run out to the garage and make yourself whatever pieces of you need for your other hobbies. That satisfaction IS priceless and perhaps something that your significant other may be able to get behind you on. mine did...

Wish you all the luck.

Cheers

Gerry

[handlewanker]

Well, the longest journey starts with the first step, so see where it takes you.....if you never never go you'll never never know.

BTW, make sure you make something for the other half that can be an indicator of things to come, like personalised serviet rings with a design (using your 4th axis) that is unique to you.....probably the start of your hobby sales catalogue.....everyone wants personalised serviet rings, or just polished and lacquered hardwood bangle with Oriental style characters....very trendy.
Ian.

[annoying]

I have been thinking about this thread and have come to an interesting conclusion about the responses I have recieved so far.

First off, thanks for being a reality check guys, it is always good to have experience voice it's concerns in the face of a starry-eyed newbie.

Second, it seems to be much easier to be come up with reasons why it can't be done, than how it can be done. Also, naysayers seem to be more vocal and prevelant than supporters. Possible reasons for this could be a flooded marketplace were folks are actually trying to protect thier position than actually give a helping hand? I can't blame business-minded folk for this response, it only makes good business sense.

Third, I find it hilarious that guys on a CNC forum are trying to talk me out of buying a CNC machine. I have never experienced this on any other forums. For instance, if on the Triumphrat forum I posted a motorcycle I like and wanted to buy, I seriously doubt I would recieve a single response stating all the various reasons I should not buy a motorcycle. "Motorcycles are dangerous" "You will never be able to take your family on vacation on that" "Parts are so expensive" "Don't forget about the cost of insurance" "You'll shoot your eye out" :nono:

And then don't get me started on how every discussion on a machining forum always seems to end up in the same place: Boohoo, the Chinese take all our jobs, we can't do it here, Obama needs your money to fly Air Force 1, California sucks.

The way I see it, the scales are slowly tipping in favor of garage businesses making parts in the good ol' USA again, it's time for the haters and naysayers to retire and shrivel up in front of the TV and let the makers and doers turn this train around. Which makes me a big fat hypocrate considering I am in the market to buy a Chinese CNC machine. LOL How much was that baby Tormach again?

Don't have to get all worked up over it.

Right here is the problem......

Hey guys, help me try to convince my lovely lady that a mill will pay for itself within a year.

No one knows you, your abilities, or, most especially, you wife and the requirements to convince her. No one can answer your question, or, more appropriately, help you build the argument.

So, how about a few points that can be made......

1. Production VMC's cost something like $50 an hour to run. Agreed?

No, they don't cost that much to run, but I spect you are pointing out billed machine time, which can be all over from $50 to over $100 per hour.

2. Production VMC's work 3-4 times faster than Hobby CNC mill with flood coolant and a stock spindle. Is this about right?

It all depends on what you are doing. On a lot of small detail stuff, yeah, probably somewhere 1.5 to 3 or 4 times faster. Some moderate material removal even more than that. Get into some heavy cutting and a decent VMC can easily be more than 10 times the work done.

Ok, everybody wants to make widgets, or start a successful Kickstarter campaign making widgets. Say you have a widget that you can make the parts for on the PM45 in 10 hours and clear $200 after material cost etc... Companies are selling these for $250 so your price is considerably cheaper, quality the same, blah, blah, blah.

$200 for 10 hours won't get you anywhere. That's closer to what you would charge a buddy to make him parts cheaper than he can buy. With a smaller machine, electric consumption will be smaller, but you still have tools and wear and tear to figure in and then some, such and coolant and stuff

One of my ideas will involve motorcycles......

Market is pretty dang flooded. And a lot of chinese crap to compete with. Just a thought


But, here, it looks to me that you already answered your own questions partially..

..........and I will be making plenty of parts on the mill for myself, which is the foremost reason I want to buy a mill......

I am buying a CNC mill regardless, so if I don't sell any parts or gadgets made on the mill, nothing lost, nothing gained. This is not a business venture solely dependant on the sale of goods, it is a hobby venture with investment possibilities.

To be clear, I am not starting a business in the sense that I am dependant on the business for income.

If the things I make become wildly successful and popular, I will then sub the job out to a local shop, but I am not counting on it.

As far as argument to a wife....... some people buy motorcycles, some 4 wheelers, some get them damn side-by-sides or whatever, but you are wanting to spend money on something that can potentially pay for itself and make money.

You can not calculate a product's potential before it is developed, or if you have experience marketing similar products. You can only give it a shot.

If it were me, I'd look for an old knee mill with 3 axis control. They can be had for less than your $6K and potentially be capable of higher material removal when needed. Not to mention being able to hand crank on it when you want. The biggest downside is being a bit messier, but you could make up some splash guards or something. I have seen such things in the $3-5K range. And if it don't work out, you'd likely be able to get most your money back out of it.

Tooling does NOT have to be expensive up front. You need a vise and some measuring tools, otherwise, buy cutting tools and holders as you need them.

Cad software can be had cheap if you don't "HAFTA HAVE" the latest and greatest. You do NOT need cam software like most people seem to think you do nowadays. Learn G-code, it's free and easy.

That said..... Don't borrow money for it. DO NOT empty your savings or put you and the wife in a tight spot financially. Do sell at least some personal toys in hope to smooth it over with her.

The BIGGEST thing is... MAKE NO PROMISES to her, other than you'll make her some nifty stuff. If you promise it'll pay for itself in a short time, or that you'll make XX amount of money, you will set yourself up for arguments...... trust me, I know..... unless she is super easy a person and will let you off the hook.

[Titaniumboy]

If I had the room I'd buy the pm45mcnc.
Hoss

That is high praise indeed for the PM-45M-CNC.

Would the variable speed drive option be worth $1000? Would the relatively low spindle speed of 3000 RPM be of concern?

Titaniumboy

[recordingwhiz]

One more thing to add to the list of positives for the other half:

Drum roll please...

"It will keep you in the garage and not out getting in trouble"

That one works for me really good, not to mention she gets all kinds of trinkets as I learn certain machining operations, I use stuff she likes as the prototypes.

I have a PM25MV which i have converted and I really like it , when and if I outgrow it the PM45CNC is absolutely first on my list since I only do this as a hobby and I don't have commercial machine money.

Plus I like that the PMs match my FJ Cruiser voodoo blue in color...lol

Buy it and gives us all the reports as I'm sure a lot of us are very interested.

Cheers

[ihavenofish]

"Third, I find it hilarious that guys on a CNC forum are trying to talk me out of buying a CNC machine. I have never experienced this on any other forums. "

thats because here youre not talking just to fanboys with an expensive hobby. youre talking to people doing the actual work daily.

this is what you can manage in a day on a novakon torus (nm145).... with no tool changer.... an expensive 24000rpm spindle upgrade, a coolant mister, , and carefully optimised paths done on $12000 worth of software:

9 hours, 65 pieces, 40% of the cutting complete. $3000 income above consumables. 130/h. not bad... if we did this twice a week. but we dont. once a month for 2-3 months and then its gone. doesnt really cover the cost of anything.

you want an excuse to buy the machine in the face of reality... just buy the damned thing and have fun

[fizzissist]

A 1 year payback??

Sure, there's guys that realize that... with unique jobs, but it's an exception, not a rule.
A 1 year payback on a $6k machine? Then why not a $60k machine, or a $250k machine.. all with proportional jobs...

You didn't mention tooling. Expendables, toolholders, workholding, inspection and finishing, these all add up. Would you buy a Ferrari
and put Big O tires on it? If you join the "cheap tools are a bargain" club, that's fine, I've learned that they aren't. My dad taught me
decades ago that "A cheap tool is never a bargain." Don't be surprised to find that a good compliment of tooling will be 25% or more of
the machine's cost.

To put this in perspective.... REAL perspective.... You asked about guys doing production jobs on hobby machines. I do real production on
real machines, and I have problems. We all have problems. Adding a hobby machine into the equation doesn't make it any better, and
what it saves you in money, it costs you in time, accuracy, and capability.

Don't try and sell the missus on the business side, sell her on the idea of you having the ability to do something you love. And you'd better love
long, long hours in the garage. Then, if you make some money, then it's a plus.

I can't give you anything bulletproof either for, or against your plan. What I can tell you is that's the way my dad started his shop... in the garage,
with a Logan lathe, taking in short-run production jobs to pay for the machine.

[CS900]

what a great thread. I'm pretty sure every one of us with a few tools has though about doing it for supplemental or as a main source of income.

I can't offer any great insight past what has already been said, but I do have a bit of a different view as well. I bought a little Taig CNC ready mill and converted it myself, for the sole purpose of producing a headlight kit for RX7s. There was no one out there making anything like it, so I took a gamble and went for it. They sold like hot cakes, and I paid for the machine twice over within 4 months. I took the extra money and invested in a nice lathe, which in turn opened the door for me to start doing custom paintball and prototyping work. I've since bought another lathe and a PM-45 that are getting converted to CNC to further expand my capabilities, and reduce my turn around time. I'm now to the point where I need to decide if it's feasible to make it into a full time job as I have so much demand, but no time to do it all. I literately am turning people away because I just don't have time to fit everyone in

I guess the moral to my story is that it's not impossible to make a quick profit from a machine. If you know there is a market out there, and you're the sole provider to it, you can charge almost anything you want. Now I wouldn't say my story is typical by any means, and the Taig, is a much smaller investment, but it's all relative.

[FannBlade]

I'd say at least half of the users here spent thousands on their machines and will never make that money back or build enough stuff to make up the cost.
there's a small chance it'll consume your life like a drug.

This sums me up for sure...although I have made almost $300 (gross).LOL

The Tormach will be closer to $20,000 for a production setup.

If you want a CNC and make widgets. Then buy a manual machine and slowly convert it to CNC...you will learn a ton doing it from scratch and wife will take the investment a little easier. Sounds like your mechanical inclined and like to tinker...this will fill the bill for you. I make PC parts on mine and can easily do $200-$300 (very part time) a week,but after aluminum,tooling,and cool things I think I need, there's nothing left, BUT wife doesn't mind when the same going out is same coming in...but she will probably remind you every so often about the initial cost that will never be recovered. "there's a small chance it'll consume your life like a drug. "

Like others have said for the item I make and I needed a constant large orders I would farm it out to someone with a bar feeder they would cost me half what I could do them for and one 8 hr shift would match my week or two of work.

I think if you just want to make stuff and reinvest with no income on part time basis that should be doable. The main thing is CNC at least for me can be a real love hate thing....but I would do it all over again!!! So go get started, tell Wife you need one for advanced homework assignments to further your education.