[atv2]

When FSE takes the Chinese machines and does a make over, are they just swapping out the interface boards? Are the motors, gantry, lense, mirrors, power supply, laser tube, etc unchanged from the China supplier?

[InfernusDoleo]

Unchanged. They don't swap out anything, they add the retina card, which sits between your PC and the parallel port on the laser.

Retina is a cool technology. I'm less impressed the more I see the competition. A lot of what they claim they are the only ones that do that, I've recently seen competitors do. The only area they truly excel is price. You cannot beat their price, anywhere.

But, you get what you pay for. A cheap, often untested (as reported by others) chinese laser with upgraded control hardware.

If cost is your primary concern, FSE cant be beat. Like I said in other threads, they take a POS laser and put a supercharged engine into it. But, put a killer engine into a Ford Pinto, it's still a Pinto. It just sounds nice and goes real fast. The wheels could still fall off

[fullspeceng]

It is important to verify the source of your information. It is also important to know what is going on in the present as opposed to the earlier growing pains of a startup.

Hobby lasers are assembled from a variety of parts from a variety of manufacturers. Full Spectrum Laser has full 3D CAD models and specifies all components in these machines. Other manufacturers have similar cases but the design is unique. No one sells the same machine unless it was copied from our design. Other machines in the same footprint will have a much smaller material size (16"x12") and engraveable area (9.5"x14.5). They may not have air assist or beam combiner options. They may not have dual steel Y axis rods. They may not have enclosed cable carriers on both the X and Y axis. This machine is designed as low cost as possible while still maintaining usefulness and manufactured only for Full Spectrum Laser.

Most importantly they have 30 day money back guarantees (minus shipping/handling). Don't like the color? Send it back and get a refund (minus shipping/handling).

Early low cost machines (eg over a year old) may have skipped testing but Full Spectrum has since learned that quality control must be done in the USA to ensure the highest standards and best quality.

Every current machine from our Hobby laser through to our high end fiber lasers is tested in our Las Vegas warehouse. Anyone that says otherwise has not visited our facility or has false information (probably unfounded statements from a competitor). We have several dedicate staff whose only job is to test machines to ensure quality control in the USA.

All ProLF machines with RetinaEngrave have final assembly done in the USA. Every machine must be tested since RetinaEngrave is installed only in our Las Vegas warehouse.

To meet budget constraints FSL may use a number of contracting suppliers for parts and/or assembly. However, all parts in each machine is tested and quality controlled directly by us. Something that Full Spectrum Laser has struggled with in the past is how to produce quality useful machines to meet tight budgets. Four years of experience, millions of dollars in R&D expenses and 4 PhD research staff give you better products today at prices that meet your budget. When you buy a low cost machine, what optics, tubes or power supplies will remain a mystery for you. Want the best CO2 laser tube money can buy? We'll put in a Coherent RF with closed loop stability feedback. Can't afford that? We'll find something that works for your budget. Note we buy from dozens of suppliers and each supplier was chosen from dozens of samples. We ship many parts to our contracting manufacturers to install.

Some Full Spectrum Laser models are 100% design and assembled in the USA (eg someone in our Las Vegas warehouse puts every screw and every wire into the machine). Full Spectrum owns the molds, die cutters and patent pendings on these models so no one can legally reproduce these machines.

Look forward to seeing more 100% USA assembled machines soon as we have purchased a new state of the art production facility in Las Vegas.

Full Spectrum offers glass tubes, RF tubes, UV lasers and fiber laser options to meet every budget. If you want a low cost machine around $2000 with 100% USA direct print software that does the job, we have it. If you want a fully assembled in the USA machine with a high end fiber laser or UV source in the range of $30,000, we also have it.

You tell us what you want and your budget and we make it happen for you.

[InfernusDoleo]

So - the way you're talking, how they are assembled in the US, quality control by you - why dont you state that they are made in the USA?

Not every "Made in the USA" has 100% of its components made in the USA, but if I ran a company that bought overseas parts, then used them to build something, I'd state it was made in the USA.

I'm not ripping on you, I'm just saying that either you should start saying that, or if you cannot say that because they ARENT, you need to be more clear, because what I got from reading that was that they are, now, made in the USA, from parts you outsource.

And you state "Other machines in the same footprint will have a much smaller material size (16"x12") and engraveable area (9.5"x14.5)." - I take that to mean "Other, non-FSE machines". Which I take to mean, yours is larger. Because, "other machines" wll have "a much smaller size".

But that is EXACTLY the size your hobby laser supports. It's what mine supports, and it's also whats on your website "unique 16"x12" max material capability (9.5"x14.5" laserable work area)"

So, which is it?

The other thing that kinda ticks me off now is that you state: "Full Spectrum Laser has full 3D CAD models and specifies all components in these machines."

But the other day I emailed Jason at FSE asking if you had the specs available on the hobby laser so I had a drawing to reference so I could re-manufacture a part inside (I wanted the spacing on some screw holes so I didnt have to (mis)measure myself and get it wrong), and I was told, "No, we do not have that."

But, you have full 3D CAD models of these.

Dammit the yes/no/yes/no is frustrating. Truly, I wish I lived closer so I COULD see these lasers in person.

I have $10k to spend on a new laser. I am/was very close to the 36x24 with a 90 watt tube. But then my local dealer showed me a 24x12 Universal Laser, 50 watt RF tube, with rotary attachment, autofocus, etc all for $15k. Yes, smaller table size, but it's more accurate, better spot size, better beam quality... it's overall a better machine. Sure, it's not 90 watts, but at 50, this can do everything I need.

And the kicker?

Universal's software does EVERYTHING Retina does, and more. Ok, not 100% true - it does everything *I* love about Retina, and more. Direct print drivers, vector and raster right from Adobe Illustrator. It doesnt do ethernet, and I dont think it has the SD card capability. But it does 3D. And direct print. And it has a material database. You literally tell it what you're engraving on or cutting, how thick it is, and it knows the numbers.

Again though, you cannot beat FSE on pricing.

Nowhere can you get a decent home use laser for $2350. Nowhere. So in that area, they are unmatched.

But for me, going pro - I think I gotta go Universal.

I brought in some wood I cut with my 40w hobby. We then cut it with the Universal at 30W - and it was cleaner with less charring. Beam quality matters.

[fullspeceng]

We would appreciate not spreading false information. Please see attached pictures. If you have the two machines side by side then you can make comparisons between the two. Otherwise this is false based on wrong assumptions. Eg. looking at the exterior picture doesn't tell what is on the inside. Because we have full 3D CAD models that we developed then no one else has the same machine unless they copied it.

$10,000 >> $2350.

$15,000 is 50% more than $10,000. Yet 24x12=288 sq inches but 36x24=864 sq inches (eg 3x the size). 90w is >> 50w.

Universal has a good machine. We have nothing bad to say about them but please compare apples to apples.

FYI there are strict laws to MADE IN USA wording. If the laser tube did not come a USA source we would not claim this wording on the complete product even if everything else is made in the USA. To the best of our knowledge Universal does not claim MADE IN USA (we only say none of their machines we saw at trade shows or advertising show this but we do not know for sure so do not make any claims one way or the other) . Only (again to the best of our knowledge) Epilog Laser claims MADE IN USA on the front of their machines (every machine has this stamped on the front in bold letters).

Coherent Laser is a billion dollar publicly traded company and arguably makes one of the best RF CO2 waveguide lasers in the world. We purchased one directly through OEM sales and it was shipped directly from THAILAND by Fedex to us (clearly stamped MADE IN THAILAND). Still works great, just like an Apple iPhone (also not MADE IN USA). So even using an RF Coherent Laser tube we could still not claim made in the usa on the front.

However if you want to pay the premium we can make it wherever you want.

[fullspeceng]

See attached pics.

[InfernusDoleo]

What are you talking about? False information about what? You said, VERY clearly: "Other machines in the same footprint will have a much smaller material size (16"x12") and engraveable area (9.5"x14.5)."

Thats the exact size YOU sell. So how is that much smaller?

Unless YOU MEANT to say, "Other machines in the same footprint will have a much smaller material size THAN (16"x12") and engraveable area (9.5"x14.5)."

In which case, I see your point. But thats not what you said.

As for the Made in the USA thing - I dont know the legality of it. But I'd sure as hell advertise that the machines are assembled in the US.

And I never argued the point that you guys excel in value. In fact, I keep repeating it. Yes, per wattage and square inch of table space, the Universal is absurdly more expensive than your laser. I've said that. Look at all my posts here. I'm continually mentioning your lower cost.

But after putting my hands ON a universal laser, seeing it, working with the software, I feel that it's WORTH the money to spend on it. Yes, I'm getting a lower wattage, but it's a better beam. I tested a 30W universal yesterday, and it vector cut 1/8" baltic birch plywood about 2x as fast as my supposedly higher wattage 40W hobby. With less damage to the wood. The Universal did NOT have the air assist turned on when it was cut. My FSE laser did.

Attached is an image. The squares on the left are cut by a Universal Laser at 30 watts, no air assist. The shape on the right was cut by my FSE laser at 40 watts, with air assist. The universal moved about 2x as fast as the FSE laser.

The Universal, at lower power, cut better and cleaner. Yes, that laser is $9000 vs your $2350, but it's a hell of a lot better.

Thats not false information.

[fullspeceng]

Dimensions listed are from our machine. We own one of the cheaper ebay lasers in the picture shown and it has an unmodified working area of approximately 150mmx150mm = 6"x6" (inner drop). 6x6=36sq inches. 9.5x14.5=137.75 sq inches. A lot of engineering work went into pushing the interior envelope without expanding the outer case.

The thin wood material is easily cut by our lasers with no charring. Charring is more than likely caused by improper focus, weak exhaust, low beam power on your tube after using daily for nearly two years, or from a low cost aftermarket lens. We sell tube replacements for the hobby at $300 which is a good value for two years of use. We can easily cut this wood perfectly on our own $9000 machine (and likely on the $2350 machine with proper setup).

We're happy to perform sample testing on a customer's material for a side by side comparison. You have the results mailed back to and either is acceptable or it is not. It is an easy comparison.

One can expect $9000 laser (this $9000 probably doesn't include the honeycomb, air assist or exhaust fan by the way) would do some things better than a $2350 laser otherwise the company selling the $9000 laser would go out of business.

However we also sell $9000+ lasers.

As for false statements, you claim our current hobby machine is a G Weike machine -> " HEAVILY using a G. Weike laser sold to me by FSE 18 months ago" This is a false statement. The Hobby Laser is sold ONLY by Full Spectrum Laser (see the 3D CAD models which FSL made) and furthermore no part of the hobby laser comes from G Weike. You claim we sell lasers unchanged. This is a false statement. We add many various parts and modifications. It is important to check your fact accuracy and not make false assumptions.

[InfernusDoleo]

The laser cut like that the day I bought it too. Before I used a replacement "cheap aftermarket lens" (bearing in mind mine shipped with a cheap chinese lens, something told to me directly by a FSL employee about a year ago). I have NEVER been able to cleanly cut 1/8in baltic birch without it looking like it does in the picture. EVER. Not new, not with 0 hours on the tube, not with the original lens.

It's like your company is petrified to admit there MIGHT be a limitation to your lasers. ANY criticism is immediately shot down. Any claim of bad service, bad product, or inferior performance is blamed on the user, "in the past and since corrected", or any myriad other reasons.

I understand you wanting to stand behind your product, but for chrissakes, your lasers are not gods gift to the planet. Yes, they are priced phenomenally. Yes, they work as advertised. But if, side by side, they were just as good, if not better, and 1/4 the price of Universal and Epilog's, you guys would have put them out of business by now. But you havent. Because there ARE issues and limitations on them. And you do all you can to refute those claims wherever they are... any complaints are all "in the past", or user error. Fact is, I havent seen a lot of glowing reviews. Sure, they are all over your website, but you dont let anything but exist there.

Again, yes, for the money, your lasers can NOT be beat. But they do not compare in cutting and rastering quality. If they DID, FSE would be the name to compete with, and not Epilog or Universal.

Do you think I want to spend $15,000 on a smaller, less powerful machine, because I like to light money on fire? No, I'm spending it because I've seen both, and for the quality I'm looking for, and I'm blown away by Universal. The one HUGE edge you had over these guys - for my purposes, Retina - is moot now - Universal's software does the same thing. And it's a bit better. (More credit to FSE: You guys are always kicking ass making that better, Retina has grown leaps and bounds in the last 2 years).

It's like it's impossible to hear "Point taken" or "You're right - their laser has X feature ours doesnt have, however..." - Its just refuting and redirecting.

I cannot find it now, but the laser I bought from you, at the time, was available elsewhere as well. Maybe NOW G Weike doesnt sell that model, or now you own the exclusive rights to it, but at the time I bought mine, that same shell, without the retina card, WAS available elsewhere. I cannot find the links now, but its been posted many times that others received their 40w hobby drop shipped from China, NOT Nevada.

And maybe you do that different now. But you speak like that was never the case.

[fullspeceng]

You cannot find it because again these are false statements.

The 4th gen hobby laser has NEVER been sold by anyone else and was NEVER produced by G Weike. The case itself is an off the shelf case shared by many manufactuers (which may lead to confusion) but the mechanical components were all designed by FSL and assembled by a contracting manufacturer who at no time was G Weike. China is a huge place with a billion people and thousands of contracting manufacturers. The motors come from one company, the sheet metal parts from another company, the tubes from another and often there is an integrator that screws in place and boxes it up. FSL uses dozens of suppliers when it makes logistic sense to provide the best products at reasonable prices. Again, at no time was G Weike a supplier for the 4th gen hobby laser (they may or may not be contracting manufacturers for other models).

FSL may have dropped shipped FSL designed machines previously when it made logistic sense but no laser is dropped shipped from China now. Every machine is shipped from Las Vegas after testing unless specified otherwise due to customer preference.

As an aside: My Apple iPad was dropped from Shenzhen China directly to my house.

I cannot find it now, but the laser I bought from you, at the time, was available elsewhere as well. Maybe NOW G Weike doesnt sell that model, or now you own the exclusive rights to it, but at the time I bought mine, that same shell, without the retina card, WAS available elsewhere. I cannot find the links now

[atv2]

FSL, on your larger lasers (not the hobby model), are they your own design? It looks just like a Chinese machine. Can you tell me what the difference is, besides your Retina card?

[InfernusDoleo]

FSL, on your larger lasers (not the hobby model), are they your own design? It looks just like a Chinese machine. Can you tell me what the difference is, besides your Retina card?

Who makes the larger ones? I get instant responses every 2 seconds from FSE - this guy wants to know where the larger ones come from and it's silent for days.

[atv2]

Hello?

[InfernusDoleo]

7/19 12:26am (Eastern): I post and say some things FSE disagrees with.
7/19 2:22am: FSE replies saying some of what I've said isnt true, talks about 100% american build, not chinese crap, etc, its not a repurposed G Weike.

7/19 9:49am: I reply
7/19 1:36pm: Futher FSE defense and they appreciate me not spreading false info.

7/19 2:29pm: I reply
7/19 3:01pm: FSE replies, more yay us, boo them, their lasers dont char wood, must be my fault, I'm wrong.

7/19 3:27pm: I reply
7/19 3:44pm: FSE replies, defending, I'm making false statements


7/20 3:04am: atv2 asks if the larger lasers are repurposed chinese machines.

5 days later... no answer.

Thats the kind of crap that drives me batty. If someone says something not stellar about FSE - near instant reply with defenses, propping up, how their lasers are amazing, better than $10,000 competitor lasers, etc etc.

Ask something where they need to say yes, it's a chinese laser that they repurpose, and, no answer for 5 days. If it's a goddamned chinese laser that you fix/repurpose/soup up, SAY SO! Jesus christ, all I've ever asked for from FSE is transparency. Don't hide behind innuendo, or things like "100% american based company". EVERY company in the US that doesnt outsource is 100% american based. If you take a chinese laser and FIX it, say so! But this hiding behind stuff, giving only the positive side of the story, only saying what you think looks good in a PR sense (see: your "forums"), it makes you look shady!

AAIGH! Just be HONEST and tell the whole damn story.

There's your answer atv2. What do you think they are?

If I'm wrong FSE, PLEASE tell me, but by looking at websites, those machines appear to be identical.

Whats further infuriating is that most people would be happy to buy a chinese laser, repurposed by a US company, with US support and US resources to turn to if theres an issue. But I'm not the first person to feel they were getting an american made machine then feel duped when it's OBVIOUSLY inferior chinese manufacturing quality. It's still an AWESOME price, it's still a decent machine, people just like to know exactly what they are getting when they pony up thousands of dollars.

But FSE doesnt just come out and say that... it's hidden behind 100% american based, and "many of our machines are built in the US" (without saying WHICH ones are - they could build all their CNC engravers in the US, not a single laser, state that, and it's still true, and leaves you thinking your laser might be), hidden behind overly moderated forums that make the machines seem to be god's gift... then on forums like these, every disparaging comment is furiously defended, while questions like "Are the larger machines made in china?" are left unanswered, hopefully forgotten.

So, FSE, are the larger machines made in China? I'm assuming this post will get a reply, because I havent exactly been nice, and I'm sure I've said a lot FSE wants to defend. Are the ProLF series lasers made in china, with your american-made retina electronics added aftermarket?

[atv2]

I agree with Infernus. I know the Chinese machines aren't the greatest, but many people here seem to be okay with them, so why not be open and upfront about it?

By not saying anything, people are just going to assume that anyway.

[InfernusDoleo]

atv2: The only reason to NOT answer is is because, presumably, they dont want it said in print that they buy Chinese lasers, jack up the price and resell them, POSSIBLY (I'm NOT saying it's true, but that it's absolutely possible) without ever even uncrating them. I think thats the reason the lasers themselves have a HORRIBLE warranty - it's a cheap chinese laser and FSE doesnt want to be on the hook for repairing it. You buy a $10,000 laser from them you get a whopping 90 day warranty. Most people cannot put a machine through its paces in 90 days. What other company sells you a $10,000 piece of equipment and gives a 90 day warranty? Sure, you can BUY an extended warranty... that's convenient.

So... If they say no, and it comes out that they are Chinese lasers, they are lying.

If they say yes, then, well, FSE "just resells chinese lasers".

If they say nothing, well, thats the best course of action. They dont have to lie, and they don't have to admit something they are apparently not proud of.

(Yes, I'm goading in this post on purpose. I'm curious as hell to see if FSE WILL answer one way or the other. Them getting mad at me and having to defend my "false statements" seems to be the only way to get a response)

[atv2]

Looks like you are 100% right about FSL. They got a chance to clear the air, but decide to just hide behind poor marketing. Too bad, it seems like people placed a lot of value on their controller, and are willing to accept the Chinese mechanics and price premium.

I suspect that this won't last. Once an alternative makes it a market, and if it's priced within the reach of hobbyists, the bottom will fall out of premium packaged solutions.

Whatever, this seals it for me for FSL.

[InfernusDoleo]

Looks like you are 100% right about FSL. They got a chance to clear the air, but decide to just hide behind poor marketing. Too bad, it seems like people placed a lot of value on their controller, and are willing to accept the Chinese mechanics and price premium.

I suspect that this won't last. Once an alternative makes it a market, and if it's priced within the reach of hobbyists, the bottom will fall out of premium packaged solutions.

Whatever, this seals it for me for FSL.

I just want to be clear about something. I dont have it out for FSE. I dont hate them, I dont wish them ill, I dont have some vendetta. Hell, check my post in the parent forum of this one - I was recently shopping and considering the 24x36 FSE ProLF laser, I even went to far as to get a quote and submit it to my finance company for approval. Check my other posts, as critical as I am, I am consistently praising their price point and Retina electronics and software.

My PROBLEM is the bullsh*t. The forum moderation. Lets be honest, ok? The moderation is NOT to keep the forums pruned, or orderly, or keep it as a knowledge base. Knowledge bases do not need praise of customer service:

www.fullspectrumengineering.com • View topic - Full Spectrum Customer Service

Nor do they need "Thanks for the tour!"

www.fullspectrumengineering.com • View topic - Thanks Full Spectrum

Thats not knowledgebase stuff. There have also been plenty of "Yay I got my laser!" posts.

The forums are heavily moderated, in part, to remove any negative posts. You find nothing but praise there.

Then there's customer service hassles. I'm not getting into my debacle - thats detailed in other threads. There's the runaround, the fact they they wont give a clear and concise answer as to where the lasers originate.

Its all justs so... I dont have a good word for it. It feels dishonest. I've only ever wanted honesty and transparency with them. They are a smallish company, and in todays world, thats the kind of company that builds a loyal following. Every company has issues, and most of us respect the upstanding handling of those issues.

But FSE seems to try and hide them and pretend they dont exist, and for buyers like atv2, myself, and others on this board, thats enough to make us look elsewhere.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. FSE: Knock off the bullsh*t and you'll have a much larger, loyal customer base. I cant imagine how many sales you've lost just from the garbage thats been detailed on these boards. None of it being necessary.

[Bec Weir]

Early low cost machines (eg over a year old) may have skipped testing but Full Spectrum has since learned that quality control must be done in the USA to ensure the highest standards and best quality.

Every current machine from our Hobby laser through to our high end fiber lasers is tested in our Las Vegas warehouse. Anyone that says otherwise has not visited our facility or has false information (probably unfounded statements from a competitor). We have several dedicate staff whose only job is to test machines to ensure quality control in the USA.

You tell us what you want and your budget and we make it happen for you.

My FIRST machine was purchased in September 2011. It came directly from China. Cables were not compliant with Australian Standards, the air compressor failed within days and the extraction fan within weeks. It never connected with my computer long enough to finish a single job completely.

There was no quality control. It was such a piece of junk that after about four months of daily trying to get it to work (and kudos to the guys at FSE, there were HUNDREDS of emails between us, and even letting them remotely access my computer in Australia from Nevada), it was wholly replaced.

I'm yet to send back the shell of that first laser to their "Australian representative". I have breast cancer and have trouble lifting the thing and it pisses Henry off no end that I still have it in my garage. I like that. I'll send it eventually, perhaps on the first year anniversary of me purchasing the heap of junk that the first one was.

The SECOND Hobby Deluxe was supposedly personally inspected by Henry (I have all the emails still if anyone wants them all published) and WAS sent from Nevada. It had stripped hex bolts and brackets that wobbled, stopping the mirrors from being aligned. I seriously doubt that the stripped bolts were caused by shipping.

The second laser ran well, but didn't cut. I was told by FSE that possibly the power source or the tube were buggered (this before the machine was ever used to cut a job). I swapped out the laser tube and the power source from the first laser and it has since cut beautifully.

Other posts I have made have been critical of FSE and the crap they have sold me and later sent to replace what was non-operational goods. Their service has been exceptional, although condescending at times.

"It shouldn't be this difficult, this is basic stuff" was one particularly memorable statement from a FSE employee to me. That was said to me at 4am local time, as they remotely accessed my computer. It may be basic stuff to the four people with a PhD at FSE, but to this little black duck with a Masters Degree in Nursing, let me tell you: IT WAS ****ING DIFFICULT.

I have since seem to have been barred from posting on the FSE Forum and from sending PM's to people who ask questions on it. That is petty Henry. About as petty as me keeping your broken laser carcase, just because it annoys you. It is the small things that make me happy these days.

Would I buy from FSE again? Nope. I'd buy a higher priced machine from another company. 60 day warranty on parts and labour? Yeah, way to show your confidence in your product there.......

When asked "Tell us what you want and your budget and we make it happen for you", well, I just wanted a machine that worked as advertised out of the box, for the price I paid and not to have been treated like a simpleton, nor have a nearly six month wait to get a working machine - after cannabalising the first one for parts.

Thanks for reading my cathartic post.
Bec Weir

[fullspeceng]

FSL's general policy is not to comment on customer situations but this case involving "Bec Weir" we felt it was necessary.

This example is an example of outstanding FSL service and unfortunately also the case of encountering the most dishonest customer we have encountered in 4 years of business.

There's always two sides to a story and this is ours backed up with e-mail timestamp and tracking number records:

9/1 Customer receives the machine in Australia
9/1-9/15 Customer laser works with some intermittent problems and FSL staff works weekends and nights to help diagnose or resolve problems over e-mail. For example 9/13 customer says "I have been cutting without any problems..."
9/16 Bad motor card reported to FSL.
9/18 Replacement cards sent to Australia
10/4 Customer informs us the machine still didn't work after replacing cards
10/5 FSL decides maybe the machine is a lemon and sends a complete new machine and pays for shipping to Australia for the replacement. New machine works and customer is happy.
10/12 Customer asks us to wire $200 to pay for shipping of the defective machine to our Australian representive for repair. FSL wires $200 to customer BUT the customer never sends the machine and keeps the $200.

From 10/12/2011 to 3/1/2012 customer is using the new laser, kept our $200 and our original machine. She only emails us for support on 3/1/2012 when she encounters problems.

We diagnose her laser tube or power supply may have developed issues as laser tube/power supplies are not made by FSL and are normally replaced according to the warranty terms at the time of sale. However due to previous inconveniences we offer that she can remove and keep them from the original machine FREE of charge. Customer promises to send back original machine within a week.

FSL was told on 3/1/2012 that the customer had developed breast cancer so of course were sympathetic and arranged for our Australian rep to arrange return shipping and take care of everything. She never responded to our Australian rep's phone calls or emails and yet found the time and strength to remove the laser tube and power supply from the original machine to put into the second machine.

3/2/2012 -> 8/3/2012. No more e-mails/return phone calls from us or our Australian representative about returning the original machine. We e-mailed monthly and always remained courteous and never got a response. We call it a loss and lesson learned from a dishonest customer.

In summary, FSL could have done nothing more. We responded to all support requests immediately. We replaced all defective parts free of charge including shipping. We even replaced parts free of charge out of warranty by several months.

Not only did customer steal the original machine which she promised to return on multiple occasions, she asked for and stole an extra $200 FSL wired to cover the shipping charges. Never in 4 years of business did we encounter such a case of customer dishonesty.