[dwalsh62]

The cycle test completed, one clamp failed due to the tool holder not being properly secured and is considered a human error.

120000 cycles per unit, there were only 47 (equates to 0.003916% / 4) failures to secure the retention knob and the exact reason is unknown so it has been concluded that the failure rate being so low is probably due to other mechanical reasons and is not worth consideration or further exploration.

Detailed force ratings (before/after) are available to backers on the kickstarter website.

Disc springs are rated at one million cycles and we did just a little more than 10% so I would have to conclude that the clamp is finalized and ready for production.

[dwalsh62]

We're just about ready to start a small production run, only short 2 people/orders and figure I should get those within the next week.

Once I have the 25 set I'll be contacting those from here who committed to purchase so expect contact in the near future.

[hydropro]

woohoo! I'm ready! I would like to purchase two sets but we just purchased a new home and I'm in the process of setting up my new basement work shop. Hopefully you"ll do another run in the future. Are the tool holders going to be avaliable also?

Jose

[dwalsh62]

woohoo! I'm ready! I would like to purchase two sets but we just purchased a new home and I'm in the process of setting up my new basement work shop. Hopefully you"ll do another run in the future. Are the tool holders going to be avaliable also?

Jose

After the initial run, I believe the parts will be available from a third party and the price highly unlikely to be as low.

The tool holders will be available in the future (in a month or two) from Hubbard CNC (they recently opened an online store) and I'll provide the information when they are available or, for those making an initial order with me I could order tool holders for them.

[hydropro]

After the initial run, I believe the parts will be available from a third party and the price highly unlikely to be as low.

The tool holders will be available in the future (in a month or two) from Hubbard CNC (they recently opened an online store) and I'll provide the information when they are available or, for those making an initial order with me I could order tool holders for them.

Great! I wont be needing the tool holders right away and will wait untill they are avaliable through Hubbard CNC. Will the price for the holders still be $59.00 on Hubbards site?

Regards, Jose

[dwalsh62]

Great! I wont be needing the tool holders right away and will wait untill they are avaliable through Hubbard CNC. Will the price for the holders still be $59.00 on Hubbards site?

Regards, Jose

Hubbard CNC is a business that needs to make a profit so I highly doubt they will be offered at this price, more likely they will be similarly priced as other suppliers, in the $100.00 to $150.00 price range.

Keep in mind, this is the China manufacturers cost of the product and does not include shipping to USA.

Currently there are four sources for small (10, 15 and 20 series) tool holders, Italy, Germany, Taiwan and China.

Italy tool holders are probably the best quality product but at $239 not worth it in my opinion.

Germany tool holders are over-priced at $179.00 and the quality is no better than a China or Taiwan tool holder so not worth the extra cost.

Taiwan and China tool holders (less than $75.00) are good quality and I have yet to receive a bad one.

I've purchased JT-ISO-15 (ER11 only), ISO-15 (ER11/ER16) and BT-15 (ER11/ER16) tool holders from my china source in the past and I've never had any issues with the tool holders I get from them and as a company that has been making them for many years, they should not have any product quality issues.

[dwalsh62]

Well, I've been given a unique opportunity to buy tool holders from another manufacturer in China.

Basically they tell me that they have obtained the technical drawings from Dragon Machinery (details of the acquisition not provided) and a sample is shipping in 2 days.

What is nice is that he is giving a price of $60.00 each shipped to my location with an MOQ of 50pcs.

If I order 100pcs the price will be $56.00 each shipped, if I order 1000pcs the price will be $43.00 each shipped.

I'll be able to ship them out to you by USPS flat rate and can probably fit 8 in a small flat-rate box so the additional shipping cost to you will be minimal.

At this time I have confirmed purchases for 38 tool holders between 6 people, several others I have mentioned it too have told me they will buy them later so all I can think is I hope they have a source in mind.

I've had previously dealing with this company and this company offering to make them does make tool holders so it's not like a new thing for them.

Currently the smallest they make is ISO-25 but since they are experienced in making tool holders I think they will be good quality.

I'll know more once I receive the sample and if they are good the order will be made probably by the end of next week so if you want some you might want to consider getting in on the purchase.

[dwalsh62]

I've received the ISO15/ER16 sample, tested it and it fits like a glove, the quality is good so I'm going to place an order on friday june 8, 2012.

If you want to get some send me an e-mail Click Here.

[lovebugjunkie]

Suggest anyone interested in this read the entire thread of the following before making a decision. If you already did I hope it turns out well for you.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/produc..._official.html

Signed: A burned out lightbulb.

[dwalsh62]

Suggest anyone interested in this read the entire thread of the following before making a decision. If you already did I hope it turns out well for you.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/produc..._official.html

Signed: A burned out lightbulb.

What are you going on about now???

The fact that I wouldn't waste time scanning in a book to make a PDF for you in the off-chance you might buy one has nothing to do with the offers I have made in this thread.

No one has ever complained about any products I have sold them, the only complainers are people like you, expecting me to do additional work, educate them on the product and act like a salesman just because you want it and the bottom line is this, I'm not trying to convince you to buy anything, you want it great, you don't want it that's great too, if you think you can wait and pick one up later, you take your chances that I will have any left.

If someone is looking for a deal, they are offered the opportunity to get one, it is up to them if they take it or not, I'm not here to convince them it is a good deal, they should be smart enough to know if it is.

When it goes to a third party, it will be available but very unlikely for such a low price.

Now, since you never have anything relevant or intelligent to contribute to threads I create, please refrain from posting to my threads, I don't have time for your stupidity and neither does anyone else.

[dwalsh62]

For those who are interested in purchasing a kit I have the following update.

While we were happy using the finger clamp that everyone else is using we decided to take it to a higher level.

We are no longer using the finger clamp from the first post, don't get me wrong, it works well and supported the 1200Nm (268lbs) of force but the new design supports 1700Nm (380lbs) which means a slipping tool holder would be pretty much impossible.

We got better test results without any failures using this petal clamp and only missed 5 out of 864,000 clamp cycles which we attributed to the stepper motor losing the occasional step until it amounted to enough missed steps to be off 0.150in since we were pushing them to the limit.

The additional cost for the new style petal clamp is only $30.00 and in my opinion well worth it.

I will be contacting those interested parties in the near future as we try to work out a production schedule.

[Hans_G]

There is a lot of information spread around in different posts of this thread.

If you don't mind, can you please explain how I can get from A to B with your product, A being where I am today (a Sherline spindle), and B being how to make chips with a 1/8" endmill using your various offerings mentioned above...

1) your latest spindle, cost = $XX
2) your latest clamp, cost = $YY
3) your latest ER16 tool holder, cost = $60 (correct me if I'm wrong)
4) a retention knob for your latest tool holder = $ZZ (holder with no knob is just a paper weight)
5) an ER16x1/8" collet, cost = $10-20, readily available online

thank you, much appreciated.

- Hans

[dwalsh62]

There is a lot of information spread around in different posts of this thread.

If you don't mind, can you please explain how I can get from A to B with your product, A being where I am today (a Sherline spindle), and B being how to make chips with a 1/8" endmill using your various offerings mentioned above...

1) your latest spindle, cost = $XX
2) your latest clamp, cost = $YY
3) your latest ER16 tool holder, cost = $60 (correct me if I'm wrong)
4) a retention knob for your latest tool holder = $ZZ (holder with no knob is just a paper weight)
5) an ER16x1/8" collet, cost = $10-20, readily available online

thank you, much appreciated.

- Hans

Reasonable questions however not so easy to nail down because everyone has different needs/requirements regarding tool changing but I think a basic price summary and some information should answer all of your questions.

1. spindle shaft and clamp = $250.00 (finger clamp - those paying on or after friday)
2. spindle shaft and clamp = $280.00 (petal clamp - those paying before friday - limited production run - not offered to third party)
3. tool holders = $60.00ea
4. retention knob = $5.00ea
5. ER16 collets (from china) = $5.51ea shipped (available in 1 to 10mm by .5mm increments)
6. belleville disc springs = $0.50 to $1.20 each depending on force you want/need (240lbs springs are $0.72, 50mm air-cylinder required / 350lbs springs are $1.08, 63mm air cylinder required).
7. grade 8 bolt (drawbar) = $2.00 ACE Hardware / Home Depot (I make mine out of S7 tool steel and harden them to HRC 42 so they're like grade 10 but the test bolts were regular grade 8 bolts from a local fastener supplier and none of them broke)
8. RPM sensor (Hall Effect) = $10.00 (I like to now how fast my spindle is turning so I recommend getting one but not required)
9. a magnet for the RPM sensor = ??? (how hard is it to find a magnet)
10. air-cylinder (50mm to 63mm) = ??? (I got three SMC 50mm x 15mm and two SMC 63mm x 15mm on ebay for less than $50.00, you can buy new from china for $18.00 to $25.00 each and you can get them with magnetic sensors for a few dollars more)
11. 15tooth and 30tooth timing pulleys = $20.00 (removes belt slippage)
12. 116XL037 Timing Belt = less than $10.00 on ebay.
13. pneumatic valve = under $20.00 shipped (on ebay) (4V210-06 24VDC)
14. air regulator = $15.00 (Harbor Freight)
15. 4mm or 6mm Nylon Pneumatic Tube = $5.60 shipped (1000mm - I used less than 250mm per machine)
16. 4pcs push on 4mm or 6mm nylon tube fittings = depends on your source (I bought a 50pak 6mm from china for $55.00 shipped - on ebay around $7.00 each shipped)
17. something to hold the tools holders = $5.00 to ??? (can be a piece of aluminum/nylon with recessed holes attached to the edge of the table, an extending rack/arm, a horizontal rotary carousel, a vertical rotary carousel, limit is your needs/imagination and resources)

If you're on a really tight budget and can only afford a spindle shaft with a finger clamp I'll toss in an air-cylinder for free (they're new SMC air cylinders) its' the best I can offer to help those less fortunate.

As far as tool changer systems go, I've made two types myself, an extending rack/arm and a horizontal rotary carousel from left over material and my only expenditures were some bearings, a breakout board, a stepper motor and driver, a valve and air-cylinder, a 24v power supply, a new rack mount enclosure ($64.00) from ebay, all for less than $200.00.

I favor the rotary style since it has a small footprint and not much is required (a motor to turn it, an air cylinder to move it in/out, some limit switches for safety).

I've gotten pretty good at writing toolchanger code for Mach3 as we played around with various concepts so it shouldn't be too hard for anyone else to do it.

Other things we've been doing include the following.

A lot of people buy one of those 3-axis TB6560 boards from ebay or a Gecko G540 and neither one of these is really ideal for it's intended use (Gecko is too expensive and neither have PWM control), a more expensive breakout board, separate drivers usually ends up costing more than it's worth so one of the guys brother decided to make a better solution that wouldn't break the bank (he's some kind of electronic engineer).

We've now got the ideal 3-axis board to control a sherline mill, no it's not the blue 3-axis TB6560 board you see on ebay, much better design, it's actually 4-axis capable with 3-axis TB6560AHQ drivers on board, it also has the 4th axis step/dir/en outputs so a rotary axis can be added, 2 on board relays and PWM output for less than $100.00.

The design is not like the ebay 3-axis board, it doesn't use big resistors to limit the current, it doesn't waste pins, it operates much smoother, less prone to missed steps, less noise, less interference and less harmonics and the configuration is better suited for it's intended use.

Actually there were two prototypes, a standard board with the required features and a second one with a 128x64 (70mm x 42mm - 4 lines of text) LCD display, keyboard, MCU, 256mb ram (yes it executes gcode directly) but they decided the cost makes it unreasonable ($240.00 to produce) so it was dropped but I've kept the prototype for myself.

Two weeks ago they signed off on the prototype for the standard board and it went into full production, now expecting delivery of the first production run in about 10 to 14 days and I've already picked up a few, the boards should be available from Hubbard CNC shortly after that (obviously at retail pricing).

Now that they're happy with the electronics for the mill, they're starting on a controller that is specifically for tool changer usage that should come in around $40.00 to $55.00.

Something that allows 1-axis rotary, 6 inputs and 8 outputs should be sufficient to cover just about every configuration and it is estimated to take about 4 to 5 months to complete (designs on paper have to be tested and start with prototyping which is a slow process).

We are a small group of friends who share the same hobby we have banded together, we start a lot of projects but since none of us want to become a store stocking and selling products we make the initial production run and then hand it over to someone else who in most cases, charges significantly more than what we ask.

We don't have any financial backers and we're not trying to get rich on the hobby, just broaden the experiences and potentially help others enjoy it more by passing along what we can.

We've already made a sherline CNC mill knock-off and sold the entire machine (stepper motor controller not included but spindle speed controller is) in an enclosure with two doors on the front for $2000.00 (picture of product as sold is attached for reference) and if you examine it you will see that the cost is reasonable, acrylic isn't cheap and you can see it's very think so don't think it's added to inflate the cost, it's well made and the cost is pretty much what it cost to make and we only made 40 of them.

I've sold a dozen of them myself and from time of order to time of ship was about 8 days to assemble and test it (no rushing), inventory cost money and none of us want to put out money on inventory so after the first run we gave it to someone else who so far has not made/sold one to my knowledge and we still have enough parts for about 8 or 9 more but those will include a fully functional ATC setup.

Now, if someone with deep pockets wants to be our financial backer, we could produce these products in larger quantities for even less and obtain warehouse space to store the goods until they are sold but until this happens, the deals are around when they are offered and may not be around later depending on who assumes the project after the initial production run.

[dwalsh62]

For those who keep contacting me about about my BT30 spindles.

It's new, unused and what it is pretty much says everything about it.

There is one left with matching air-cylinder, cost is $1600.00 plus shipping, yes there were more but recent interests have reduced them and while someone has expressed an interest in the last one, in my opinion not enough of an interest to show they really want it so it goes to the first person who pays for it.

If you need information or payment instructions, figure out how to email me directly, inquiries here will be ignored.

[dwalsh62]

Got enough quantity for tool holders and they have now been ordered.

Thank you to those who ordered.

Now we're moving to spindle shafts and clamps, order date is June 14, 2012 so if you want any now is the time to place your order.

For those who expressed an interest and previously contacted me you have already been contacted.

[joeybagadonuts]

Dale,

How have you been doing? Its been quite some time since we have had a chance to chat.
The finger clamp looks interesting, if I use threaded rod to connect a pair together it would make a nice set of Chinese fingers. It would be very difficult to escape from such a predicament. It might behoove you to attach a warning label so no one sticks there finger into the mechanism otherwise you may have OSHA all over your a$$.
Anyway I thought I should drop in and let you know I have still have your back.

I have to prepare for the morning rush, time to make some cream puffs.

JoeyB

[joeybagadonuts]

Dale,

I can't believe you only received a $87.00 commitment out of the ten thousand dollars you where trying to raise on Kickstarter. For your first attempt at Kickstarter it was a valiant effort. Since you are new at this maybe you should think about retaining a marketing firm to help launch your product. I feel sorry for anyone that is new at business, does not know how to market and is under capitalized. You may want to take a few notes, most successful Kickstarter projects have working prototypes and several video's of there product. They also have blogs and are posting on every available venue not just one outlet.
I know you don't take constructive criticism very well however I did not build a thriving doughnut business over night, I did a lot of homework first.
Either you want to make long johns or Twinkies, that's all up to you.

JoeyB

[dwalsh62]

Dale,

I can't believe you only received a $87.00 commitment out of the ten thousand dollars you where trying to raise on Kickstarter. For your first attempt at Kickstarter it was a valiant effort. Since you are new at this maybe you should think about retaining a marketing firm to help launch your product. I feel sorry for anyone that is new at business, does not know how to market and is under capitalized. You may want to take a few notes, most successful Kickstarter projects have working prototypes and several video's of there product. They also have blogs and are posting on every available venue not just one outlet.
I know you don't take constructive criticism very well however I did not build a thriving doughnut business over night, I did a lot of homework first.
Either you want to make long johns or Twinkies, that's all up to you.

JoeyB

First, I never expected KickStarter to fund, only get a few additional orders to hit the 50 sets.

Second, I have a working prototype (of both styles of shafts/clamps).

Third, myself and others in our production group don't have time to play store with lots of products so we limit the products we retain.

Fourth, after our initial production run, this project will be given to a third party, at that time I will not have control over the cost/availability.

Fifth, I did manage to get orders for 50 sets, 11 sets from here, 3 from KickStarter so production has begun.

While we were gearing up for production using the finger-clamp, we gave a stab at a petal-clamp and we were able to successfully produce several prototypes and test them without mentioning it publicly, then, those who prepaid before I requested funds for clamps and shafts, got the upgrade to a petal-clamp without additional costs.

We're adding nitride coating to the clamp to reduce wear/friction and once our production run is done we have a buyer for the petal-clamp design, apparently the I.M.S.sas price of $575.00 each for 100pcs of a petal clamp wasn't as attractive as $155.00 each for 50pcs and on a high quantity production run the cost is down to around $86.00.

I've now got another petal-clamp design that we just completed testing on that I'm setting aside for future projects, this one supports 3900N / 870lbs and a simple ID change to make ISO15 or ISO20 clamps (ISO20 is only 3000N / 670lbs).

We accepted $1,000.00 for the current shaft/petal-clamp design, and will be giving (no exchange of money) the shaft/finger-clamp design to A2Z, we want people to have options which in theory allows the market to be competitively priced.

People waiting because they want others to buy first and post/report results as a buying decision have already lost out, no one here has ever reported a bad product from me and I have sold many products to people here.

Since we do our homework we make sure the products we make function as expected and test them vigorously to ensure they stand up to their task.

Many don't get involved in threads because they see the drama generated by a few and don't want to be subjected to it and I don't blame them.

I don't have patience for tire-kickers but I will go out of my way to help someone who requests it and anyone who thinks I owe them and demands my time and services when they haven't purchased anything is not the brightest light on the christmas tree and to get bent out of shape when I decline is in need of serious psychiatric help.

If you recall my panel, by introducing it into the market in a small production run, the real intent was to get panel makers to reduce their price, I was able to get GSK to make me an authorized east-coast reseller/dealer (which included a buy-out of my panel and subsequent free upgrade to those who purchased one) and match my price so while everyone else sells the GSK980MDa panel for $2500.00 plus shipping, I can sell them for $1500.00 shipped all day long and this is causing other resellers to lower their price, and, warranty/service is handled here in USA if purchased from an authorized USA reseller/dealer so you might wish to reconsider what I bring to the table because you obviously don't see the entire picture.

GSK has come to see me several times now, due to quantity sold we are negotiating lower pricing for me so by November I should be able to sell the GSK980MDa panel for $1350.00 shipped, this combined with our newly designed feed system we can offer a complete CNC retrofit kit for around $5,000.00, $7,000.00 installed and it surpasses the Fagor system which has an entry level kit price of $11,000.00, uses a computer and linux and is considered the low-end retrofit kit and it's only endearing quality is the 15in or 17in LCD display.

Also, we just finished negotiating the enclosure with swivel mount so for an additional $150.00 you get a perfectly fitting, gray powder-coated enclosure with swivel mount, the auxiliary button panel and buttons which is pretty much a give-away at that price.

Due to the last negotiations with GSK, I'm able to sell a GSK lathe panel shipped for less than $1100.00, do I need to advertise this to make sales, no, we do enough conversions and upgrades that it takes care of itself and I don't need to have a salesman on hand to push the GSK products.

If you want to know about the GSK products, contact GSK, if you want to buy the GSK products contact me, that's as simple as it gets.

[joeybagadonuts]

Dale,

I was wondering if you have a video of your spindle in operation?
How do we purchase your GSK CNC control, I can't find anything advertised anywhere. I have been challenged most of my life, its nice that you take the time to help people like me. You know you have made a life long pal and will be happy to reciprocate your generosity and good will. Would you like me to send some prune fritter's or maybe even a few rhubarb bismark's (specialty pastry of the week)?
Got to go now some one on the counter wants a bagel with lox and creme cheese.

JoeyB

[dwalsh62]

Dale,

I was wondering if you have a video of your spindle in operation?
How do we purchase your GSK CNC control, I can't find anything advertised anywhere. I have been challenged most of my life, its nice that you take the time to help people like me. You know you have made a life long pal and will be happy to reciprocate your generosity and good will. Would you like me to send some prune fritter's or maybe even a few rhubarb bismark's (specialty pastry of the week)?
Got to go now some one on the counter wants a bagel with lox and creme cheese.

JoeyB

Like I say in all my threads, send me an e-mail, I usually provide a link for the forum-challenged but you shouldn't have to go back to the first post to find the link, I would think you have some skills.