[heilcnc]

I THINK IN MY FIRST POST I SHOULD HAVE NOT SAID REPLACE SYIL SORRY

I THINK IT'S ABOUT TIME WE IN THE USA START MAKING THINGS AGAIN WE CAN IF
SOME COMPANY STARTS DOING CAST IRON CASTINGS AGAIN THE MACHINES HAVE
HARDENED WAYS ON THE BIGGER MACHINES SO HOW MUCH MORE WOULD YOU PAY TO KEEP THIS COUNTRY OR YOUR FELLOW AMERICAN WORKING THE GERMANS DO IT WE NEED TO START OR THIS COUNTRY WILL FAIL CAN'T YOU ALL SEE THAT BY BUYING AND NOT SELLING TO OTHER COUNTRYS DOES NOT WORK IT DID TILL THE BILL CAME IN THE MAIL!!!!
PROBABLY NO ONE WILL HEAR ME BUT I HAD TO SAY THIS THANKS

[Hirudin]

Suggestion: Leave the caps lock key disabled next time. Also, some additional punctuation would make your message more clear.

I have a Taig now and I'm probably going to upgrade in the next couple years. I would love to buy a new, American made mill about the size of the IH mill. I'm afraid I wont be able to though for a couple reasons.
Do Bridgeport still make new machines? Are there any "benchtop" mills which are larger than the Taig actually manufactured in the USA?
How much more will one of these machines cost? It's difficult, but not impossible, to justify spending two or three times more money on a mill just because it's made in the USA.

[hoss2006]

Buy American! A nice sentiment but not a pledge that can be as possible these days.
Who made the car you drive, the tv you watch or the computer you're typing on.
These sites can help.
http://www.madeinusa.org/
http://www.americansworking.com/

[heilcnc]

Ok hoss i'm sorry to say your right its very hard to find american made so much for fair
trade if you seen the news there killing more in china with lead poisoning no epa there
but i think with prices of there stuff going up that we could build machines here (if we
did not pay the ceo to much!!!!!!!!!!!)

[docltf]

it is a nice thought and would look good on the wish list but it is not going to happen. the U.S. builders that are left are steady down sizeing as fast as they can. most are importing their castings and parts from their facilities that
they have built outside the USA. over time their assembly sights will even dissapear. they are under so much goverment pressure it has turned into a joke. with extra high manufacturing taxes,osha,epa,affirmative action and many many more statutes that they have to deal with.it is better just to move out. if they dont they will end up in the courtroom.at the rate it is happening the two largest manufacturers left in the country over the next twenty years will be dunkin doughnuts and domino pizza.

bill

[ihavenofish]

...at the rate it is happening the two largest manufacturers left in the country over the next twenty years will be dunkin doughnuts and domino pizza.

bill

manufacturers of obese citizens?

sorry, couldnt resist

this thread is silly. want a US made bench top mill? start a company yourself. noones going to do it for you out of feel good patriotism.

[arizonavideo]

There is one left and doing quite well.


http://www.haascnc.com/home.asp

My IH RF-45 clone cost $1600.00 including shipping from China. No one can make any money at that price. 1000 pounds of steel.

At some point we will need to look at the trade deals and the 300 pound gorilla that is lowering world wide wages called China.

I'm in favor of sales tax and import tax only, with no tax on income or corporations but we are so far away from that now it's not even funny.

Someday when our unemployment hits 20% someone may ask "What are all these people going to do"

I'm not seeing any green sprouts yet....Ha

[ihavenofish]

There is one left and doing quite well.


http://www.haascnc.com/home.asp

My IH RF-45 clone cost $1600.00 including shipping from China. No one can make any money at that price. 1000 pounds of steel.

At some point we will need to look at the trade deals and the 300 pound gorilla that is lowering world wide wages called China.

I'm in favor of sales tax and import tax only, with no tax on income or corporations but we are so far away from that now it's not even funny.

Someday when our unemployment hits 20% someone may ask "What are all these people going to do"

I'm not seeing any green sprouts yet....Ha

funny thing about haas, the dealer up here in canada went to great pains to tell me that the castings of the TM1 were made in canada, not the US.

in any case, import tarrifs have never done anything but bad for the businesses they pretend to support. penalizing foreign companies to portect unviable local business is the wrong idea, instead you need to give reason for the local ones to compete.

[Hirudin]

I'm not a scholar on the subject, actually I know very little, but the little bit I know about trade tariffs makes me think they are a good idea.

[dertsap]

there was a gentleman who had recently posted a thread on here who stated his company sold American made mills , http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78538 , I'm only pointing this out to show an example of someone who is doing it and could probably use some support , I'm sure there are others if people do some strong research

[ihavenofish]

there was a gentleman who had recently posted a thread on here who stated his company sold American made mills , http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78538 , I'm only pointing this out to show an example of someone who is doing it and could probably use some support , I'm sure there are others if people do some strong research

the hitch with that, was hes not selling american made mills. hes selling chinese mills with mostly US developped and assembled retrofit kits.

which is, fine, and if he wants to tout the american made aspects thats also great.

under the same guidelines, a smithy 622 could be called US made, and a novakon nm-135 can classify as canadian made, as they both offer in house built control systems and options.

however, if we moved back to the idea of tarrifs. all three companies would be hammered and all of those jobs lost because an arcane form of government decided they shouldnt be viable. all this to protect the profits of companies not even in competition with them.

for one of those 3 companies - or others like them - to begin to produce more of the machine in their local country, they need incentive, not penalty.

[dertsap]

the hitch with that, was hes not selling american made mills. hes selling chinese mills with mostly US developped and assembled retrofit kits.

which is, fine, and if he wants to tout the american made aspects thats also great.

it wasn't a hitch , he posted the thread in honestly as to which parts were outsourced


as far as tariffs go , China will be hit hard with them , they are a means to keep the economy moving , without their cheap products we wouldn't have an economy , people can't afford to buy expensive products at this point of time , if people aren't buying then the economy dies . the governments are using them to keep the economies moving once they get back up again then china will take a hard hit in tariffs , why else would the governments of the world sit back while china counterfeits so many products and deals in unfair trading practices , their day is coming

[escott76]

It's not just a matter of magically "making things in America" it's a philosophy that we have developed over the past several decades that needs to be broken. Wherever it comes from a cheap product is a cheap product. We have become so accustomed to going out and grabbing the cheapest thing we possibly can to get the job done that we have forgotten how to tell what quality is, and forgotten that a little more spent in the first place will be worth it in the long run.
Quality costs money, no matter where it's made. We can produce cheap crap in America too. Likewise when you pay more, you can get quality goods made in China. But if the majority of the market won't pay that rate, you get companies only willing to sell the cheap stuff.
Your only vote that counts is your dollar, use it. Don't buy disposable products that will need to be replaced in a year because the new model came out. Don't support the machine that treats you as a consistent source of money and wastes resources to produce endless successions of garbage.

[heilcnc]

i was trying to see what people had to say about american made vs chinese i see now
Here is a new question would you pay $1500.00 more for say a x6 syil type mill with
american made castings,american made cnc drive,faster spindle,.(quality)bearings

[mactec54]

I thought I need to say something Heilcnc Dreaming is good putting/turning that dream
into something is hard but it can be done the US can compete with China I do every day & so do many others by just making something that they do just do it a little better they are getting better every day with what they make but also as they get better there price also gets higher soon there price will go to high to buy then the market will come back were US made will be at the same price what will you buy support the US made or by the same priced made in China

[ihavenofish]

I thought I need to say something Heilcnc Dreaming is good putting/turning that dream
into something is hard but it can be done the US can compete with China I do every day & so do many others by just making something that they do just do it a little better they are getting better every day with what they make but also as they get better there price also gets higher soon there price will go to high to buy then the market will come back were US made will be at the same price what will you buy support the US made or by the same priced made in China

are you two the same person? you both share the same passion for punctuation.

[heilcnc]

your right it happened to the Japanese as you can see the stuff from china keeps going
up the more they westernize the more there people will make in wages

[dertsap]

theres no reason that someone in the US or Canada can't build a bench top mill , It's not rocket science , its just the simple fact that someone hasn't cashed in on the Branding yet . It is absolute bs to think that castings can't be made in North America , there are plenty of places to get castings but in order to get them at a decent price then the orders need to be a decent size , I'm sure for the beginner there would be some electrical parts that need to be sourced out to begin with . The thing is it's easy to speak out on a forum which is involved in manufacturing and create a huge out cry that we need to keep our manufacturing here and that we will pay more to support it , its another thing to convince Joe public to do the same ., WE'RE THE MINORITY

[ihavenofish]

theres no reason that someone in the US or Canada can't build a bench top mill , It's not rocket science , its just the simple fact that someone hasn't cashed in on the Branding yet . It is absolute bs to think that castings can't be made in North America , there are plenty of places to get castings but in order to get them at a decent price then the orders need to be a decent size , I'm sure for the beginner there would be some electrical parts that need to be sourced out to begin with . The thing is it's easy to speak out on a forum which is involved in manufacturing and create a huge out cry that we need to keep our manufacturing here and that we will pay more to support it , its another thing to convince Joe public to do the same ., WE'RE THE MINORITY

actually its the opposite. its very easy to get an affordable high quality all us/canadian built electrical setup. steppers, servos, motors, drivers are still cheaply made here in small volume. of course many of the discrete components are from taiwan, but thats unavoidabe if you want the best.

castings is a hard one... granted he chose a bad exampe with the X6 i think. if you took the BF20, which has about 220lbs of iron, you could easily have those made in small volume in north america for $500. this is non treated/hardened gray iron, nothing fancy like meehanite of course. you might get them completely done - milled, ground, scraped and painted, for $1000-$1500 in volume.

now, were already at a loss vs the chinese original manual machine, which retails for $1200us complete and shipped, but we arent so far off that the possible increase in quality doesnt justify the price, especially in a cnc package worth $6000+ at retail.

OR, you could invest in epoxy granite, try to fit the same price range, and claim superiority over the cheaper competition easily. that avenue requires alot of development and investment however.

for ball screws - good ones, and spindle bearings, youll be looking to japanese though, for both price and quality. there simply arent many use makers doing c5 screws in small sizes for any price near affordable. likewise angular contact bearings and such.

i thnk one could easily make a small/medium sized cnc mill in the US and be profitable to the upper end hobby market. youre now competing with german made wabeco machines rather than siegs. not a bad place to be really, but it is a far smaller market too.

i do not think you could make the larger hobby class machines completely in the US and be viable at the moment, your pricing would be near low end industrial equipment, and the quality and features wouldnt justify it.

[dertsap]

i do not think you could make the larger hobby class machines completely in the US and be viable at the moment, your pricing would be near low end industrial equipment, and the quality and features wouldnt justify it.

I agree somewhat , Haas has the market wrapped up with affordable machinery above $20,000
But with this being posted in a bench top mill section then I'm not picturing a 1-2 ton machine , I'm guilty of having a Chinese machine , its basically an x2 mini mill , there isn't much to them and it takes pretty basic machining skills to produce it , sure isn't ball screwed or anything technical , to make something similar wouldn't be that hard , its a simple basis of any manual machine , to upgrade them to linear slides and ball screws , and or scale the machine size then there is a definite cost and i think most would be willing to pay for the upgrade if it is a quality built machine , if you look at those types of machines they really are a simple pos build , but they do work ok

there had been a point that i thought about dropping a Haas mill and lathe on my line of credit and have a couple machines for this exact purpose . its a large market that few other than the Chinese have chose to break into , my thought weren't of using castings but to design using solid materials