[daniellyall]

the machine i work on is a slow machine i cant get it to go faster, i have reched the limit in speed it can go at 500mm/sec would like it to go at lest 1000mm/sec.
the stepper moters are nema 34 with a holding torque of 90Ncm whatever that is in inch, would putting steppers with a bigger holding torque let me go faster, or should i lower the reduction they have, they are all on belt drives an r an p other than z whats ball screw. it a big machine 1200mm x 2400mm x 200mm.
it has a ess, mb 06 bob, 213v stepper drivers it runs at 45vdc there is no problems with noise or with rails or the r an p. i have fix all problems that the machine has had, this is the last problem to be fixed i just need advise from anyone who will give it.

[victorofga]

Daniel

that machine is ok...
motors has a certain rpm they cant exceed
and possible you reached the limit..
from here, you can try to put onto a higher gear ratio, and for Z axis doubling the lead screw... changing from 5 mm to 10 mm lead..

not sure if your work will be faster..

some work, like dollhouses you might outsourcing for waterjet, or laser.. the reliefmachining wont be faster..

hope it is not typo 500mm per second that's 30 meter per min..1200 ipm

[victorofga]

I forget to say, the control also has limit around 40-50 KHz pule per axis

[ger21]

90N-cm = 1280oz

Larger motors will almost certainly be slower, and smaller motors would most likely be faster.
What are the inductance and current ratings for your motors?
I would guess that a 600oz motor with a 6amps current rating would be much faster.

And as Victor mentioned, 500mm/sec is certainly a typo and not the actual speed you're currently getting.

[daniellyall]

the x,y and b axis are set to 25.47803221 steps/per, velocity of 500, accleration of 50, the z axis is 79 steps/per, velocity of 500, accleration of 50. the z axis has a smaller reduction than the x,y and b axis.
i have not worked out what the reduction is yet.
its 500mm/min that i run at 1000mm/min would be nice
i reasion for this is that i like to use high speed cutters the coated one they seem to last longer so there cost/life is very low.

[victorofga]

Gerry

when I mentioned about larger motors I was meaning using a higher gear ratio.. so by numbers a slower but stronger motor could drive faster..
but... since it came up it is a typo, the 500 mm per min is too slow.. these machines are knows way more..
my ballscrew driven machine, with 10 mm lead makes 7500-8000 mm per min max.. tough never used for cutting..

his machine should make at least twice than my machine..

on the picture is a nema 23 motor...

something is not straight this router looking very much likely exitech marketing...
if so it has about 25 meter per min max...

so it is definitely settings issue..

Daniel

what control program you are using?

I have now ncstudio..
max speed I limited 3500
start speed almost all the time zero
and start acceleration 200
connection acceleration 400-800 I varuing pending of works

also when 3d cuts coming up, I set startspeed to 50-70 so router don't slow down to zero

=============================
before I used mach3 with machine 5 mm leads...
then max speed was 2500mm per min
accel 180

================================================== ==

for you, try to set max speed to 10 meter per min
and youll see what happen..
accel you can set somewhere 150-250 mightbe higher

of course without any tool in the spindle..

start always zero..

[victorofga]

the 1280 sized nema 34 is a doublestack motor.. that should have the sufficient power
not clear why he set only 500 mm per min...

[victorofga]

a few similarly built machine.. so the 500 mm per min is only settings issue



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[daniellyall]

its set to 500mm/min becouse if it goes any faster the outcome is bad. at 500mm/min its within +/- 0.02mm per 3000 moves i test the machine on a file that has 3000 moves thats in all directions so it makes it easy to work out if the machine is going to be acurate at any give speed/per so 500 good 600 bad.
it runs on mach3 big tx blue screen the machine can move around at 1500mm/min with out any problems but to be acurate it can not cut at that speed.
its the same machine as one of lugunas but from china its a copy.

[ger21]

I made a mistake, which makes more sense when looking at the data sheet.
90N-cm is 127oz-in

If those are the actual motors you have, then your machine is way underpowered.
It's hard to tell exactly what you have, but with ±25mm per rev in motor tuning, it seems very similar to the rack and pinion units most people use that have a 3:1 reduction.

If that's the case, then upgrading to a Gecko G540 with 380 oz steppers should greatly increase your performance.

Can you physically measure your motors and post the size of them? Are they indeed ±56mm square, and maybe 50-60mm long?

its 500mm/min that i run at 1000mm/min would be nice
i reasion for this is that i like to use high speed cutters the coated one they seem to last longer so there cost/life is very low.

Coated cutters are not ideal for cutting wood, as they are designed for metal. The reason for your poor tool life is that your machine is incredibly slow. You really should be cutting at 7000-10000mm/min
Your goal is still far too slow.

[victorofga]

:-)

im sure I also made typo..

that machine runs on square rails.. and looks rigid... so if motor were right then theres something not straight..

it sounds too incredible ....




if it is really nema 23 then you need nema 34.. the size will say it..

[daniellyall]

wrong steeper motor they are these one
Hi-torque stepping motor specifications:
- Model: 86BYGH450B-06D
- Step Angle 1.8°±5%
- Winding: 2 Phase
- Insulation Resistant 500V DC 100MΩ Min
- Insulation Strength 50Hz 1Minute 500V Min
- Ambient Temperature -20℃~+50℃
- Temperature Rise 80℃ Max.
- Radial Play 0.02mm Max.
- End Play 0.1-0.3mm
- Voltage: 3.5V
- Current: 5 A
- Resistant: 0.6Ohm
- Torque: 60 Kg.cm
- Weight: 3.5KG

[ger21]

What do you have the current set to on the G213?

Your motor seems to have similar specs to this one. Brand New NEMA34 Hybid Stepper Motor 85BYGH450B-06D (KL34H2110-50-4A) Shaft Size: 14mm | Automation Technology Inc
That would mean that you really should be using a higher voltage.

[daniellyall]

60 Kg.cm = 5.88399Nm, what about 835oz so i can get bigger nema32 but would that help, i am running a good set up useing a ESS, MB02 bob, g213v running at 45vdc running on mach3, there is no rf problems or things not being squire or anything like that as those thing have been delt with in the past.
so all i need to do is get more speed out of machine and that it is going to be acurate like within +/-0.02 when i run my test program whats has 3000 moves in x,y and z

[ger21]

A bigger motor would most likely be slower. The bigger the stepper, the less torque they have at higher speeds.
What is the current set to on the G213? See my previous post.

[daniellyall]

its the 48vdc one i have on machine

[daniellyall]

one more question the look ahead in mach3 is set to 20 lines should i have more

[victorofga]

something is not straight here

Daniel..

you have post on mach forum dated back over a year.. about Z axis..

z axis loosing steeps



looking for your picture, you have a very heavy spindle on.. have you counterbalanced?

what is lead the ballscrew has on the Z axis? 5 mm or 10? might be more?

if theres a ratio by belt, then what is that ratio?

what is the 80 steps? 80 step per mm?

have you checked without spindle and motor attached, is it working easily?


what I thinking, if your Z axis has some issue, like spindle too heavy (due to a high ratio) then it can cause that you never can set right the feed...

if timing pulleys are backward, and its not reducing but accelerating, you get a ratio what your stepper already can not handle..

tht motor is a doublestack nema 34 I have nema 23 on Z axis and it can handle a 1.5 or 2.2 kw spindle..

so your nema 34 sure can handle that 3 kw spindle, unless by ratio the torque becomes insufficient..

[victorofga]

youi can make some test... set definitely higher federate
like 5000mm per min
and without moving Z axis try to move the X and Y axis
if its working, then the issue is your Z axis

[daniellyall]

i have done **** loads of testing thats how i already know what the max feed rates of the machine is, the z axis is not the problem it does not way that much, around 80kg if that. it has been all done up with a harwin ball screw and bearing block. it has a 1-2 ratio on the belts
i have run the machine at 1500mm/min it run good but not acurate. if i have to stick with 500mm/min to be acurate so be it, if i can spend a couple of $00 to make it go faster all good like bigger power supply or next size motor down as i can sell old bits in nz for more than i can by new bits from usa