[kstrauss]

I would love to have an electronic tool setter but the Tormach 31875 is probably more accurate than I need and certainly more than I can afford. Are there any reliable units for significantly less? Will they work with the Tormach software?

[mioduz]

I have no affiliation with nor own one. But I considered getting one of these but it won't do what I want so I'm going to get a tormach
TLO setter II - CNCneeds

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[mountaindew]

I have no affiliation with nor own one. But I considered getting one of these but it won't do what I want so I'm going to get a tormach
TLO setter II - CNCneeds

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Whats the strategy with these?
Are they for atc tool height setting?
md

[kstrauss]

What does the TLO II do that the Tormach doesn't?

[mioduz]

What does the TLO II do that the Tormach doesn't?

I beleive the only benefit of the tlo would be that they offer it in both a active and passive setup, and of course price. Currently tormach tool setter is only compatable with the pricey active probe. If you use a probe (I use the passive) and want to use a tool setter this could be a deal breaker for the tormach. However the tlo has some downsides as well as it is not IPx rated. And has no permanent mounting solutions, but I'm sure that could be overcome. I am going to be working on first mounting the tool setter on the corner of my table permanently and have a macro check tool length before each tool change.
After I have the macro worked out I plan on building a air actuated tool arm that can swing out of the way. Logic would be as follows.

Once a tool change is reached run macro
Raise z to safe height
Extend tool arm under spindle
Air blast tool setter face to clean touch surface
Feed z down until contact
If tool length is same +/- then Continue, if beyond tolerance hold and wait for user input
Rapid z up to safe distance.
Air blast to clean face
Retract tool arm.
End script
Atc tool change

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[wwendorf]

There is no difference between the TLO Setter and the Tormach Tool Height Setter, except that the TLO Setter can be gotten in both active and passive mode.

It works great and is 100% compatible with the auto touch-off routine on the ATC.

I use it daily and it works GREAT! I can't imagine not having one.

Wade

[kstrauss]

What does "active and passive mode" mean?

[wwendorf]

As simple as I can think to explain it is Always Open or Always Closed.

First of all, the tool setters and the touch probes both use tormach's accessory port.

Now, Tormach sells 2 different touch probes, a passive one ($200), and an active one ($1000?). If you buy a passive touch probe and you buy Tormachs Tool Setter (which operates in active mode), you have to shut down mach3, run tormach's config program to change the accessory input mode from active to passive to use the touch probe, and back to passive to use the touch probe. However, if you buy the passive touch probe, you can now buy the CNC Needs TLO Setter in passive mode, and not have to switch the mode of the inputs around. A much nicer and cheaper solution that buying all active probes and tool setters.

Wade

[Steve Seebold]

I can't understand all the hoopla about an electronic tool setter.

Why on earth would you want to set your tool lengths off the table instead of the top of the part?

[wwendorf]

Well, in my case, it is because I setup a Tool 0 as my initial reference tool. For any job, the only tool I need to reference is tool 0, then all of my tool offsets are loaded in the tool table and I don't need to set them up per job. Especially since I have the ATC.

Wade

[kstrauss]

Ah, I just hadn't heard that nomenclature previously. It should be trivial to make a little box (perhaps with male and female 5-pin plugs) to convert one to the other.

[wwendorf]

Also, I don't set up my tool length off the table or off the part. After I go to do a job, I only need to reference tool 0, then all of the other heights that have been setup with the tool setter are referenced from that Tool 0.

This is how I use the tool setter.
1) Set it somewhere on the table and plug it into the accessory port
2) Insert Tool 0
3) Go to the Z tool setter screen in Mach3 and select "set sensor Height".
4) Remove 0 tool
5) Click "Touch off tool tray" in ATC screen.

All of my tool heights are then automatically set for me.

Love it!

Wade

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, I just hadn't heard that nomenclature previously. It should be trivial to make a little box (perhaps with male and female 5-pin plugs) to convert one to the other.

It uses 3 pins, not 2. Might be a bit weirder to do, but I'm sure still possible.

Wade

[mioduz]

I can't understand all the hoopla about an electronic tool setter.

Why on earth would you want to set your tool lengths off the table instead of the top of the part?

Your tool heights can be set off of any surface you want. If done properly you should not have to change them based on the job you are running even if the jobs are totally differnt. Set all your tool heights in the tool table. Then when you are ready to work set your Z height with any tool (in my case a probe) once this is done all work will be offset by the same amount as that tool was. If you are setting each of your tools every time you change a work peice you are wasting an EPIC amount of time.

You should only have to set your tool length once. That is untill it breaks or wears out.

I plan to use the tool setter as a tool check actually. Not to set the tool length so much as to see if the tool has broken in the previous operation before moving on to the next step. Parts that I machine are surface hardened and pricey to replace. If a tool breaks during an operation and the system procedes not knowing of the breakage, I will certainly break every tool after that and possibly ruin the part. Good speeds and feeds, and monitoring the use of your tools is a good step around this surely but at $300 for a replacement part + cost of broken tools, I choose not to trust my own good judgement as to when a tool needs replaced. Ive run 50 peices on one tool, and the next one only did 15. Same speeds and feeds, same make and model tool, in the same holder. No explanation other than just variances in my parts metalurgy (cannot be controlled by myself) or variances in the tools manufacturing.

[mioduz]

Ah, I just hadn't heard that nomenclature previously. It should be trivial to make a little box (perhaps with male and female 5-pin plugs) to convert one to the other.

Ive thought long and hard about this. Worried about adding relays inline will delay transmission of the signal to the point of getting false readings. If you wanted to do something like that id recomend only using Solid state relays to ensure the fastest response time

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ive thought long and hard about this. Worried about adding relays inline will delay transmission of the signal to the point of getting false readings. If you wanted to do something like that id recomend only using Solid state relays to ensure the fastest response time

Not relays - that would not work at all. All that's needed is a single TTL inverter, or transistor to invert he signal.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mioduz]

Not relays - that would not work at all. All that's needed is a single TTL inverter, or transistor to invert he signal.

Regards,
Ray L.

Guess I didn't think long enough or hard enough. I assumed it was just a process of reversing a normally closed, normally open circuit

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[BAMCNC.COM]

There is no difference between the TLO Setter and the Tormach Tool Height Setter, except that the TLO Setter can be gotten in both active and passive mode.

It works great and is 100% compatible with the auto touch-off routine on the ATC.

I use it daily and it works GREAT! I can't imagine not having one.

Wade

WOW, active and passive! That would let me use my touch probe, as I've never once used it due to having to switch modes all the time (well would, but I won't.) I use the tool setter 4-5 times a day alteast.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't understand all the hoopla about an electronic tool setter.

Why on earth would you want to set your tool lengths off the table instead of the top of the part?

Steve, you of anyone should know why... is that a serious question?

[kstrauss]

I think that you may be worrying too much about delays. Small reed relays often have actuation delays of 0.5-1.0 msec (see http://www.cotorelay.com/datasheets/...ed%20Relay.pdf for a typical datasheet). If one is approaching the sensor at 10 IPM (I don't know the final approach speed but that seems fast to me) the head is moving at about 0.0002/msec so the actuation delay would introduce an error of a tenth. Also, the delay should be essentially constant so one could compensate for it. That said, I was actually thinking of using an opto-isolator.

[mountaindew]

Whats the strategy with these?
Are they for atc tool height setting?
md

I understand the active or passive probe system and I have been working on automating this in my cam programs for fast x,y,z ucs for months now.
Just trying to understand tool setters better. All my tools are set in table and all programs run from those settings I have almost 200 taps now designed this way. and based on that table!
I would like to use a long term system that I can pick up and run programs 2 years from now with little effort
What am I missing?
Is it for tool damage or wear?
For a fast change of tool numbers and heights in a temporary table ?
Or all programs run on tool numbers 1-XX whatever your tool changer holds and everything is based on those numbers! And you don't keep a huge tool list like I do!
Ahh typing this I think I figured it out.
md

[tmarks11]

Steve, you of anyone should know why... is that a serious question?

Steve is just priming the pump to continue the argument of proper use of tool and work offsets. Ask 5 professional machinists, 3 of them will agree with Steve, 1 will do it the way discussed here, the other ???