[carlosgzz5555]

I am evaltuating to buy a CNC mill equipment, I would like to know which brand do you recomend, Haas or Mazak?

[psychomill]

Need more info.... What's your budget? What do you need to do? What type of mill? How much volume? What types of materials? How much future capacity? How much current capacity? Etc....

I'll take a Mazak over a Haas anyday... but you may not "need" one. Need more info....

[TURNING MAD]

Mazak By Far Is A Better Product. But You Will Certainly Pay For The Difference. If You Are Doing Small To Medium Size Lots At Close Tolerance With Complex Shapes, Then You Will Not Even Want To Consider A Hass. Hass Is A Fair Product For The Money, But Lacks In Programming Power And Editing Flexibility. Also, With Hass, Everything You Will Want Is An Extra Option. For Examp, Custom Macro. Give Me A Break. Graphics Suck. Hass Is Better Suited For High Volume Jobs Where You Only Set Up A Few Jobs A Year.

[little bubba]

Mazak By Far Is A Better Product. But You Will Certainly Pay For The Difference.

The cost difference isn't as large as you might think. Recently got a quote on a Mazak 510C, the 40X20 mill. Base of 96k or so. And its pretty much ready to go, 12k rpm 25 horse spindle, 1400ipm rapids. Added in a chip conveyor, through spindle coolant, some controller options and came to 116k.

Went over to the Haas website and tried to build up a 40X20 machine as close as I could get and came to 114k. Still not up there on the rapids or the spindle, no chip conveyor, only the auger, and definitely not as beefy. I know there are package deals and all that that will drop the price quite a bit.

Personally never ran a Haas, but I'm running a '95 Mazak FJV20 and a '98 QT20, and they just keep going and going and going, lots and lots of heavy cut. Total for replacement parts for the two machines over the past 30months, under $600. I'm very happy with them.

[CBNDude]

My opinion: The Mazak is by far a better investment than the Haas. Not taking anything away from the Haas (they have there place) but they are not as sound as a Mazak. With my experience Haas does provide better support than Mazak, replacement parts are cheaper and generally an easier machine to repair if needed. But the Mazak will require fewer repairs in the long run (generally speaking). If it were me I would fork out the extra $$$$ for the Mazak.

[tobyaxis]

From my experience this decision depends on your Application. What type of Materials you will be cutting and at what Tolerances you need to hold.

Mazak is a fine Production machine with acceptable performance. Tolerance wise, +-.0005.

HAAS is also a good machine that has about the Same Performance, but has the best overall Service Response.

These Two machines will satisfy 80% of the machine shops production needs.

[ctate2000]

I have used both and I would not advise buying either machine. Mazak has the worst control of any machine on the market. It does not allow the user any freedom. The HAAS machines are built poorly. If you have no other choice then buy the Mazak it is a good machine except for the control.

I would suggest buying a Fadal if you want a new machine and don't want to spend much. I have owned three and they are solid, accurate and easy to program. If you want the best go for a Mori Seiki. They are also some of most expensive. I have also heard a lot of good things about the Daewoo.

[carlosgzz5555]

Thank you for your feedback.

The volume is low, not so thigth tolerances, and also no complicated shapes.

I am just starting.

Thanks in advance.

[lgreeves]

Haas

[cadcam]

For that thought go with the Haas and you can to volume with them as I have tons or I will say hundreds is more real that use the Haas for production day and night.

Now I do have to say the Mazak is a better made machine for sure.
but for the price you could buy two to three Haas machines.

Also if you are just starting out the HAAS will be better on the pocket book, but down the road you may want to include a Mazak.

[psychomill]

Mazak has the worst control of any machine on the market. It does not allow the user any freedom.

Care to elaborate????

[tobyaxis]

Care to elaborate????

Unless you are a Mazatrol Guru Mazatrol has Limits. Try a Complex Surface sometime. Mazatrol is great for what it is made for, but with more complexity you have to use G-Code Sub-Programs, even on a Lathe.

Try this part in Mazatrol

[cadcam]

Toby you must be talking only about using Mazatrol because as a mold maker and used several different Mazak's for complex mold shapes.

But this was done with the control set for EIA and programmed using MasterCam.
I have used them for aerospace to Mold making, along with mold making at high speed of 400 to 1000 inches min.

So I am sorry to say that the Mazaks are good machines.
If you are only talking about the limitations of using in Mazatrol I don't have a big argument for that.

[tobyaxis]

Toby you must be talking only about using Mazatrol because as a mold maker and used several different Mazak's for complex mold shapes.

But this was done with the control set for EIA and programmed using MasterCam.
I have used them for aerospace to Mold making, along with mold making at high speed of 400 to 1000 inches min.

So I am sorry to say that the Mazaks are good machines.
If you are only talking about the limitations of using in Mazatrol I don't have a big argument for that.

Your exactly right, that is what I meant to write. Most of the Shops in this area use MC for EIA/ISO programming for Mazak's. Others use Gibbs and Surfcam.

There are a few Guru's I know that can use Mazatrol to make Complex Surfaces, but there is a lot of Lying to the control and everything is Hit or Miss.

[smilenbseen]

I'd skip them both and go with an Okuma. The distributor is very important also make sure you have a good one in your area of whatever machine you choose. Haas is what it is, it's not a very strong machine but if you're just messing around in your garage it will do. There lathes are even less for messing around in the garage though more for maybe letting your 12 year old cut some plastic wheels for his toys. Mazaks are definetely better but you're paying a premier for a control that a lot of people don't need. Also a thing to consider is, would you buy a BMW with a Chevy engine in it? Mazak is full of Fanuc parts, most builders use different parts. Okuma makes everything on there machine so you have one source to call for repairs and parts and everything functions together better because it was designed to work with each other. If it's a mill Haas is an option if you never plan on doing anything with production, or any hard material. If it's a lathe Mazak is an option, but then you might as well go with an Okuma. After all that I still must emphasize the distributor means more than the machine in a lot of cases. The big ones I know of are Hartwig and Morris, but there may be someone in your area that has been there forever and just knows how to treat there customers. When it comes down to it all machines will break down but you want the distributor who will get it fixed the fastest because you may lose thousands maybe enough to pay for the machine while it is down.

[psychomill]

Toby, that's I all was looking for. Your original post didn't even sound like that. And as with CadCam, I program with G code (MasterCam or others). But the control itself is very powerful IMO. In reality, its not "drawing" in Mazatrol that I don't like, its the toolpathing. You have to lie to it quite a bit to change cut parameters. This in turn, may require you to change the "geometry" of the part sometimes. And thats the "lie". I wouldn't say everything is hit or miss. But you're right, you do have to be somewhat of a "guru" to know how to get around some things. G code and cad systems just makes it much simpler.

Something to note though, with the Matrix control, you can import part designs/geometry into the control. So, the part Toby showed can simply be imported directly to the control, then toolpathed. You don't have to create that part in Mazatrol. They have quite a few new toolpathing methods and controls now too. Haven't played with it enough though to see the "improvements".....

[tobyaxis]

I'd skip them both and go with an Okuma. The distributor is very important also make sure you have a good one in your area of whatever machine you choose. Haas is what it is, it's not a very strong machine but if you're just messing around in your garage it will do. There lathes are even less for messing around in the garage though more for maybe letting your 12 year old cut some plastic wheels for his toys. Mazaks are definetely better but you're paying a premier for a control that a lot of people don't need. Also a thing to consider is, would you buy a BMW with a Chevy engine in it? Mazak is full of Fanuc parts, most builders use different parts. Okuma makes everything on there machine so you have one source to call for repairs and parts and everything functions together better because it was designed to work with each other. If it's a mill Haas is an option if you never plan on doing anything with production, or any hard material. If it's a lathe Mazak is an option, but then you might as well go with an Okuma. After all that I still must emphasize the distributor means more than the machine in a lot of cases. The big ones I know of are Hartwig and Morris, but there may be someone in your area that has been there forever and just knows how to treat there customers. When it comes down to it all machines will break down but you want the distributor who will get it fixed the fastest because you may lose thousands maybe enough to pay for the machine while it is down.

No offence but you couldn't pay me to buy an Okuma. HAAS and Mazak are much better machines. If you want SOLID MACHINING Mori Seiki, Enshu, Matsuura, and Nakamura-Tome BAR NONE. Okuma is a complete waste of time and money. Seen the old and new cheezey line up they offer and personally not impressed at all.

[tobyaxis]

Toby, that's I all was looking for. Your original post didn't even sound like that. And as with CadCam, I program with G code (MasterCam or others). But the control itself is very powerful IMO. In reality, its not "drawing" in Mazatrol that I don't like, its the toolpathing. You have to lie to it quite a bit to change cut parameters. This in turn, may require you to change the "geometry" of the part sometimes. And thats the "lie". I wouldn't say everything is hit or miss. But you're right, you do have to be somewhat of a "guru" to know how to get around some things. G code and cad systems just makes it much simpler.

Something to note though, with the Matrix control, you can import part designs/geometry into the control. So, the part Toby showed can simply be imported directly to the control, then toolpathed. You don't have to create that part in Mazatrol. They have quite a few new toolpathing methods and controls now too. Haven't played with it enough though to see the "improvements".....

This is nice to know. What about the Fusion 640 Controls, will they import a Model? It is way different than the old Fanuc, Yasnac Controls, ah?

I'll be working with Mazak Lathes soon. One happenes to be an MSY with a M Plus (I think, Fanuc's specify T Lathe and M Mill). The others have 32 series, Fusion 640, and a New Matrix that isn't up and running yet. Any information on these would be greatly appreciated?

[cadcam]

Are any of them Mazak intagrex machines those are killer. been hlp train one of my Mastercam customer to program one.

[tobyaxis]

Are any of them Mazak intagrex machines those are killer. been hlp train one of my Mastercam customer to program one.

Are you using MC to do that? I just might ask the new Boss to buy a Post Processor. They have a new Matrix, Fusion 640, T Plus, T32 and I think a few others. I'll report back here Monday Night with more details.