[ormandj]

I had emailed Hoss this, but thought perhaps it would be better if I asked here. I appreciate any and all information you'd be willing to share.

I've been reading all of your wonderfully educational posts on CNCzone, along with people's various setup/troubleshooting posts in the benchtop mill forum. I've got a quick question for you - let me give you a quick rundown of my background. I completely understand if you're too busy to reply, but didn't think it would hurt to ask.

1) I've never used a metal mill.
2) I do use CAD (Alibre) - I've primarily created parts to have other people produce output from.
3) I was going the route of a 3d printer, but realized a lot of what I want to create, I'd want to be metal (steel and aluminum). Everything from charging handles for rifles to tools for the shop to clips to hold the bottom of my blinds in place on doors.
4) I've got a two car garage, with a single car, and some work benches/various tools. So this would be a project that fits in here. I do have 240V available, if necessary.

With that said, my question (hopefully simple) for you: is the g0704 from Grizzly the route I should go? The intent is to convert it to CNC operation, ideally 4-axis. I've seen your website (referring to Hoss) in addition to all of your videos/cnczone posts, and I know this is a very common mill for people to convert - but if you were in my shoes - is it the mill you'd pick up knowing what you know about milling/cnc conversions?

I do intend to get a lathe at a later time, but have read the combination mill/lathe units aren't any good, so should buy them independently of each other, which is why I'm focusing on the mill. If you have a different opinion, I'm all ears (eyes)!

Thank you everyone for your input. I'm going to continue searching/reading everyone's build threads in the meantime!

[awerby]

If the projects you have in mind are all fairly small, as the list you gave suggests, then getting a small machine that's ready to run in CNC mode might be a better alternative, at least until you get more proficient at machining and know that you need a bigger machine. Retrofitting a manual mill to CNC is a lot of work, and takes some equipment and skill. When you're done, you'd still have a machine that's not a very good CNC mill, compared to purpose-built machines.

Things like the G0704 will take heavy cuts, but don't do a great job with small tools and fine work since their spindles are slow and their leadscrews are coarse and sloppy. For some jobs that's okay, but for the sorts of things you list, a Taig CNC mill might do a better job with less trouble and expense.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[zamazz]

Retrofitting a manual mill to CNC is a lot of work, and takes some equipment and skill. When you're done, you'd still have a machine that's not a very good CNC mill, compared to purpose-built machines.

I would say this is true when compared to production VMC's, but what is there in this size class that's 'purpose built?' The Taig is a nice little machine, but it is substantially smaller than the G0704. The Syil machines are nice, but still not a 'real CNC machine.'

I would assume you plan on upgrading the leadscrews to ballscrews and probably swapping out the motor for something belt driven (most people do if you dig through the build threads). This will make a decent performing machine.

I do very much agree that this will take a ton of time, more money than you estimate ($3k+, depending on how elaborate you want to be), and some skills. You might look at CNC Fusion's kit to save a lot of time, or BD tools.

If you plan on doing anything with larger tooling, than i would go with the G0704 for sure. The 3/8 max tool size on the Taig will be big hindrance, if you ask me.

[ormandj]

I would say this is true when compared to production VMC's, but what is there in this size class that's 'purpose built?' The Taig is a nice little machine, but it is substantially smaller than the G0704. The Syil machines are nice, but still not a 'real CNC machine.'

I would assume you plan on upgrading the leadscrews to ballscrews and probably swapping out the motor for something belt driven (most people do if you dig through the build threads). This will make a decent performing machine.

I do very much agree that this will take a ton of time, more money than you estimate ($3k+, depending on how elaborate you want to be), and some skills. You might look at CNC Fusion's kit to save a lot of time, or BD tools.

If you plan on doing anything with larger tooling, than i would go with the G0704 for sure. The 3/8 max tool size on the Taig will be big hindrance, if you ask me.

Hoss got in touch with me, we've talked a bit, and I'm going forward with the G0704. The plan is to definitely move forward with ballscrews, and go with the 'heavy duty' electronics (digital) package Hoss has suggested. I've always been a big fan of paying more up front but paying only once. I've got Hoss's information downloading now after buying it, and am going to start to read all 9 million pages of G0704 builds that exist around here.

[headsmess]

whatever you get, its always too small...

welcome to the joy of homing, forgetting z retracts and all the flying fragments that come with cnc. some sort of container to contain all the chips will help especially with coolant/airblast which is a must for anything of any size or with deep pockets...

theres also the first tools to buy. some sort of collet chuck. a z-guage. indicator. endmills. vice. hold downs. you need hold downs to make more, better hold downs, and so on...

be prepared to chew up some alloy for the first few weeks months depending on skills and time available. and cutters. just get a few sizes of cheap endmill at first. slotting saws and micro boring bars come later, when you know you ARENT going to crash! start small...

but it is really satisfying when you make your first useful item

ballscrews are worth the extra expense, good decision. depending on the setup, some thought may be needed on keeping the screws clean. aluminium gets into everything! my lil x2 is getting some ridiculously oversized pump so i can flood all my ballnuts, keep em clean. planned to be sitting in a 600mm piece of I-beam. adds some mass (50kg!) and makes a nice "tub" to build a decent enclosure off. works for my lathe at least...

check all the ways for flat/straight on first recieving... the liluns always need some scraping... makes for a more rigid machine...better accuracy.

[wizard]

Don't get me wrong the 704 is a nice mill with well defined upgrade paths but it is a smallish mill. In this regard I always suggest that people carefully consider the size of the machine they buy. So if you haven't thought about working envelop then you are jumping the gun.

Hoss got in touch with me, we've talked a bit, and I'm going forward with the G0704. The plan is to definitely move forward with ballscrews, and go with the 'heavy duty' electronics (digital) package Hoss has suggested.

Ball screws are highly recommended.

As far as electronics go there are literally hundreds of solutions to choose from. From me perspective though it is well worth considering packaged CNC solutions if you are not familiar with the build your own approach.

I've always been a big fan of paying more up front but paying only once. I've got Hoss's information downloading now after buying it, and am going to start to read all 9 million pages of G0704 builds that exist around here.

Spend a similar amount of time looking at off the shelf CNC mill solutions. If you are not familiar with machine tools and their controls it may take awhile you do your conversion. Further if you don't have a shop full of tools you will be spending a lot of money on stuff to support your conversion.

[wizard]

whatever you get, its always too small...

Yep. However the trick is to get a mill that does everything you can reasonably project as needing to do. The less experience one has the more difficult this is to do.

welcome to the joy of homing, forgetting z retracts and all the flying fragments that come with cnc. some sort of container to contain all the chips will help especially with coolant/airblast which is a must for anything of any size or with deep pockets...

This is something I only alluded to in my previous post, but going CNC can require a significant investment. If you aren't well equipped tool or shop wise you will spend a lot of money to get a useful CNC machine the DIY way.

theres also the first tools to buy. some sort of collet chuck. a z-guage. indicator. endmills. vice. hold downs. you need hold downs to make more, better hold downs, and so on...

Another yep.

be prepared to chew up some alloy for the first few weeks months depending on skills and time available. and cutters. just get a few sizes of cheap endmill at first. slotting saws and micro boring bars come later, when you know you ARENT going to crash! start small...

but it is really satisfying when you make your first useful item

This can certainly be the case. Even if this is a non profit endeavor.

ballscrews are worth the extra expense, good decision. depending on the setup, some thought may be needed on keeping the screws clean. aluminium gets into everything! my lil x2 is getting some ridiculously oversized pump so i can flood all my ballnuts, keep em clean. planned to be sitting in a 600mm piece of I-beam. adds some mass (50kg!) and makes a nice "tub" to build a decent enclosure off. works for my lathe at least...

check all the ways for flat/straight on first recieving... the liluns always need some scraping... makes for a more rigid machine...better accuracy.

Which of course calls for even more investment in tools & time. This isn't a problem of course if you have an established shop. In the case of the original poster my concern is he may drastically underestimate the cost of this conversion if he doesn't have much in the way of tools and equipment.

[amyers]

Don't get me wrong the 704 is a nice mill with well defined upgrade paths but it is a smallish mill. In this regard I always suggest that people carefully consider the size of the machine they buy. So if you haven't thought about working envelop then you are jumping the gun.

sounds like he got expert advice from someone with actual experience with these mills. with the type of parts he's wanting to make the g0704 has plenty of travels and it's what i suggest too.

[wizard]

sounds like he got expert advice from someone with actual experience with these mills. with the type of parts he's wanting to make the g0704 has plenty of travels and it's what i suggest too.

The problem here is that people often leave out a lot of information about what they expect to do. Thus the suggestion to carefully consider what one expects to do with the machine with an emphasis on physical size. I'm not saying the 704 is a bad choice I'm just saying make sure the machine can successfully do the work needed. In the end only the original poster will know what the range of work is that he expects to do.

[ormandj]

The problem here is that people often leave out a lot of information about what they expect to do. Thus the suggestion to carefully consider what one expects to do with the machine with an emphasis on physical size. I'm not saying the 704 is a bad choice I'm just saying make sure the machine can successfully do the work needed. In the end only the original poster will know what the range of work is that he expects to do.

All of the feedback here has been wonderful. The skepticism has been very helpful, I much prefer making decisions with all negatives explored.

I've budgeted $5000 towards making this happen with a G0704. Yes, I have limited tooling beyond hand instruments. I have friends who can help out here and there, but I certainly don't want to burden them.

I'd love a larger machine, I'd also love a pre-built machine for a good price. I'm sure I'd outgrow either of those. To be clear, this isn't a money-maker for me, at this point. Perhaps one day I'll come up with something in the future that I realize I can make a profit from. I'll allocate funds at that point to a project that fits that need. Right now, I just would like a general hobbiest/homeowners machine. It'd be cool do mill out the tiny little clips I need to hold my door blinds to the door when closing it. It's also be cool to mill out a 1911 frame. Some brackets for a lightweight kit car would help a lot, too.

If I can build a larger/more suitable mill for a small increase in funding, I'm all ears. If my budget is too low, I'm also all ears. I am not only ok with honest/direct feedback, I am very appreciative of it. I don't have a shop sitting around me, so all of the comments regarding that hold true. I've used my friend's equipment when needed, but have primarily lived off of electric drills/hammer drills/hand circular saws/hand routers, hand tools, and a massive amount of electronics equipment (don't worry about soldering/etc, that is covered).

[arizonavideo]

I still like like the Weiss 30LV/ PM30 mill for the size. I have all three a G704/ Weiss 30 LV and a IH-RF-45.

All are good but I look at the 30 as the best hobby mill if cost is not a prime factor.

The IH will do things the smaller mills won't do but the 30 is still big enough for most work and the motor is much better than the 704. I still stall the 30 forgetting it is not like the IH mill.

The 704 is really good for the money but it is still small and the stock motor is under sized a bit. If you max it out like Hoss's machine it is fine and about the same as the 30 and it fits in a smaller space and has great travels for a small mill. You will need to up grade the motor and add a head spacer and cut the Y out slightly but if your work is smaller it is fine as is.