[Babba]

I f#*KKi'n HATE salesmen so despite REALLY needing a £price on a Haas Mini Mill I'm reluctant to call them & expose myself to the vermin.

Can anyone put my mind at rest & confirm whether or not I can afford one?

I'd want 10 tool changer, 6000rpm's & preferably single phase. Ethernet would be nice too.

I'm thinking £8k but deep inside I probably know that's a little on the low side.

[veteq]

Times 4

[JohnJW]

I got the Enet/hd option when the older controllers do not come with USB standard. Now that USB is standard I will probably skid the ENet/HD option if its only purpose is file transfer/storage.

Haas is running a sale but I don't know if the sale applies outside of US. Anyway, initially I had a really hard time understanding the pricing structure of machine tools. Now I just view it as a fairly specialized market that has is easy influenced with the current market supply and demand. What was a good deal a month ago may be an impossible deal today though a couple month later the negotiated price may drop even more. I do my research and set a price target I am comfortable with. It's a free market, we set our buying price and they set their selling price. If we all agree then there's a sale. Nothing to be upset about. If I end up with a Haas, that's great, if not, it's okay as well.

Though I think I may have boxed myself in by gushing about how much I like Haas in front of the sales person and that I'm only interested in buying machines that are made in the US. . . . .

[Geof]

Times 4

REALLY!!!!!

Thirty two thousand pounds for a more or less standard MiniMill.

[Babba]

I got the Enet/hd option when the older controllers do not come with USB standard. Now that USB is standard I will probably skid the ENet/HD option if its only purpose is file transfer/storage.

Haas is running a sale but I don't know if the sale applies outside of US. Anyway, initially I had a really hard time understanding the pricing structure of machine tools. Now I just view it as a fairly specialized market that has is easy influenced with the current market supply and demand. What was a good deal a month ago may be an impossible deal today though a couple month later the negotiated price may drop even more. I do my research and set a price target I am comfortable with. It's a free market, we set our buying price and they set their selling price. If we all agree then there's a sale. Nothing to be upset about. If I end up with a Haas, that's great, if not, it's okay as well.

Though I think I may have boxed myself in by gushing about how much I like Haas in front of the sales person and that I'm only interested in buying machines that are made in the US. . . . .

You've mentioned at least 3 of the reasons why I would rather slit a salesmans throat than disscuss £prices.

Why can't they just work out what it costs them to make the damn things then add a little bit on for profit?

In the UK they're calling it an "ex-demo" sale & I've been invited to attend on the dates THEY would like me to attend !

If I were sure that the only person that came near me was a bloke called Arthur who normally loads the lorries but would be happy to show me around, then I'd happily attend & probably spend some £money.

Alas, I'll be greeted by some 'wide tied' snake who'll want to know all my intimate details before they waste their time on hard selling me a product that I'm more than capable of reverse engineering to the very last penny of £cost.

[Babba]

REALLY!!!!!

Thirty two thousand pounds for a more or less standard MiniMill.

When shaking hands at your intial introduction the SalesVermin is looking closely & focusing at your forehead.

"Does it say TWAT anywhere amongst those furrows?"

If it does. then you could very well end up paying 32k. If it doesn't, then you could spend as little as ????

Personally I don't care to barter. I certainly don't care to barter with salesmen.

"Gimme a price, if that price is right we have a deal. I don't have the time to discover my highest & your lowest"

[ihavenofish]

REALLY!!!!!

Thirty two thousand pounds for a more or less standard MiniMill.

yay for VAT

in any case, without talking to an evil haas salesman you can get a quote of the US website in US dollars.

haas minimill - $33,000us
atc is standard, as is 6k spindle.

coolant is $500 extra
it does appear to handle single phase.
control features like rigid tapping are extra though.. that ones $1500us.

you'll easily hit $40000us with just a few options, so in the uk.. yes, 32,000 pounds after taxes and the like is very concievable.


8,000 likely wont even get a older used one and a demo will likely be loaded with options and cost more than the basic new one even with a big discount. that price is more tormach range sadly.

heres a loaded 1 year old used one:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/2008-Haas-Mini-Mi...3286.m20.l1116

you might be able to get that to the uk and installed for a bit under 30k pounds.

[PeterACT]

REALLY!!!!!

Thirty two thousand pounds for a more or less standard MiniMill.

There is newly developed desktop CNC machine by Advanced Control Tech (ACT). It is compact, light weight, high precision, for all metals with affordable price. The complete turn key system is just under $10,000.
If you looking for a smaller and high performance CNC machines. It will be your best choice. You can visit the website at www.ACTmachines.com for details.

[JohnJW]

You've mentioned at least 3 of the reasons why I would rather slit a salesmans throat than disscuss £prices.

Why can't they just work out what it costs them to make the damn things then add a little bit on for profit?

That "little bit" of profit varies in definition from one person to the next. For our company and I think it's also true for other companies in a competitive market, the pricing of our product is not determined by our cost, it's a reflection of market condition. If we were to try a fix percentage approach to our pricing we'll find ourselves stuck with a warehouse full of overpriced items and constantly out of stock on under priced items, neither of which is desirable.

To be honest, as buyers we really don't care about the seller's cost., otherwise GM will still be in business. GM sells at no profit and people are still flock to Toyota selling at a higher profit.

[Geof]

There is newly developed desktop CNC machine by Advanced Control Tech (ACT). It is compact, light weight, high precision, for all metals with affordable price. The complete turn key system is just under $10,000.
If you looking for a smaller and high performance CNC machines. It will be your best choice. You can visit the website at www.ACTmachines.com for details.

Not really equivalent to a MiniMill; compare 16" x 12" x 10", rapids at 600 ipm, fully enclosed, 10 place toolchanger.

[veteq]

You`re right Geof ,

Also 32k maybe is a bit much, but i think it will be closer to 32k then 8,5k.

Think for 8,5k you could buy a nice Tormach cnc mill.

Hee Babba, it was a fast answer, the mentoned machines are in the hobby segment compared with the mini mill. Don`t know a machine that is in the same or lower price region as the Haas.

Kind regards,

Roy B.

[Geof]

.....Personally I don't care to barter. I certainly don't care to barter with salesmen.

"Gimme a price, if that price is right we have a deal. I don't have the time to discover my highest & your lowest"

I have a lot of empathy for this approach. I only bartered once on a (used) machine, or I should say I offered 35.000 when the asking price was 43,000. When they balked I asked what was their lowest price and got it for 38,500 which was a very good price for a four year old HL1.

Since then the salesmane has always pulled out the best price he could for me without even haggling.

Incidentally the 32,000 or so pounds correlates with my experience in comparing prices between here and the UK; the number is the same it is just the squiggly symbol in front that changes. This seems to work for hotel rooms, restaurant bills, car hire, whatever. It also works for me because I export stuff to the UK.

[Babba]

To be honest, as buyers we really don't care about the seller's cost., otherwise GM will still be in business. GM sells at no profit and people are still flock to Toyota selling at a higher profit.

To be honest, as buyers then yes WE CERTAINLY do care about the sellers costs. I'm not in the market to buy something from a Co' that's going to go bust next week (I drive a Toyota BTW).

But then I'm also not in the market to buy from a Co' that has 3 executive jets at it's managements disposal to fly to the Co's private Island in the Carribean.

I don't make what GM sells but if I did, I'd make it better & I'd make a profit,

I don't care how much profit Haas makes on a Mini Mill.

I care that the machine will be cost effective for me, £30k would not be cost effective & I think that I'm in a very cost effective position at 90% GPM.

I want/need to fullfill any 2 out of the following 3 criteria :- Price / Product / People. My figures suggest that a Haas Mini Mill should start at £8k & rise to £20ish (this is £GBP / Sterling / the only true currency BTW)

[ihavenofish]

My figures suggest that a Haas Mini Mill should start at £8k & rise to £20ish (this is £GBP / Sterling / the only true currency BTW)

im not sure where those figures are from... the hass STARTS at well over 20k pounds. if you think thats not worth it to youre business, the machine wont magically get cheaper.

for the price you are looking there are alot of older used machines in the US floating around that could work. ive seen lots of older brother tapping centres now for under $5000 that people rebuild with new controls for milling. these would serve a similar use as a haas mini, but in trade for the low price you have no warranty and a heck of alot of work to get them going.

for $8k "new", you are looking at things like tormach, novakon nm-200's and a few other "just above hobby" class machines. they have no tool changers, less than 2 hp, and use stepper motors so arent fast either.

[Geof]

......I'm not in the market to buy something from a Co' that's going to go bust next week....

I am pretty sure if Haas sold their MiniMill for 8k pounds, and all the other machines at prorated prices, they would be a company that goes bust next week?

[Delw]

I never really cared for machinery sales men either, got burned tomany times in the past.

however a phone call from my dealer just not more than 10 mins ago saved me 12k on a brand spanking new vf2ss with options that I needed a full forth w the 210 rotary.

I was pretty shocked since I already bought the one that was in another thread,
now I just have to ok the finance paper work on the new machine and it gets dropped off.

Did I mention he called me and saved me the money , I didnt call him as I was set on the first machine anyhow. I dont wheel and deal cause I suck at it, I am pretty much well the sticker price is this so I pay for it and dont ask for a discount.

So some dealers are pretty cool

Delw

[Donkey Hotey]

I can't say enough good about my Haas sales guy either, though I know what you're talking about. Some machine salesmen make me feel like I need a shower after talking to them (met lots of them at the tradeshows).

That wasn't the case with my Haas guy. He's gone above and beyond to help me get the best equipment for my situation. He hooked me up with another one of his customers to buy their 2-axis rotary for the VF-2 I was ordering. He didn't make anything from the rotary sale, but it did mean that I added 4th axis to the machine I was buying.

After I bought the machine, he remembered another customer that had an outboard rotary control that had never been used. He sent me over there and I walked out with the controller for next to nothing.

I went from a 3-axis to a 5-axis machine in a couple of weeks--all due to having a totally straight-up salesman. They aren't all the same. Give them a chance.

With all of that said, the website has published pricing (don't know about UK but you should be able to figure out the exchange rate). Despite that, I don't know where you got your numbers. By the calculator I just looked at, you think that a Minimill is worth $4800 USD. You can't even buy a manual knee mill with a DRO for that.

[Geof]

..... By the calculator I just looked at, you think that a Minimill is worth $4800 USD. You can't even buy a manual knee mill with a DRO for that.

You calculated in the wrong direction; 1 pound is around $US1.50 so 8k comes to about $12,000US.

EDIT: Us metal bashers should be more preciser; $12980 according to Wolfram Alpha

[ihavenofish]

By the calculator I just looked at, you think that a Minimill is worth $4800 USD. You can't even buy a manual knee mill with a DRO for that.

youre calculator is broken.. or you have a bit too much blind faith in the us dollar

8000 pounds is $13000us or so. still nearly 1/3 the base price of a mini.

i just did a scour of the net for deal (ive been interested in these used brother tapping centres recently) and there really is not much - new or used - for that price thats comparable in any way to a mini. mostly beat to crap machines from the 80's.

[Geof]

youre calculator is broken..

Slowpoke.

EDIT: I missed 13,000 being 1/3 the base price for a Mini; 39,000(?) it is not quite there yet.