[tobyaxis]

What do the Mastercam Gurus have to say about this Dell and Polywell PC Build?
This PC is planned to run MCX2 for very big and complicated Molds on a 5 Axis Gantry Mill.

What are your thoughts and suggestions?

BTW: It isn't my money LOL so if it gets more expensive, I don't care

http://www.polywell.com/us/cad/

[kentavv]

Is Mastercam designed to utilize multiprocessors? If not, you may be spending a lot on CPU power that never will be used.

Depending on how you do backups and if critical data is stored on the machine you may want to consider a another drive or two configured in a RAID configuration.

FWIW: I use nearly the same machine you quote at work. No complaints. Personally, I find the 24" panels the most pleasant. I find myself moving my head a lot with 30" panels.

[MrG]

DAMN!!!!!

QUAD CORE POWER ..that must be frickin insane !!!!

i got a core 2 duo and it was really impressive.. that thin looks meaty.. also in regars to back up.. as well as a second internal i would also go for a external that you can remove and lock up in a fire proof cabinet every night...

this can save alot of headaches... imagine if you had a burst pipe or something in the shop or sprinklers.. or someone decides that a 7 grand computer would be worth stealing... i have seen it happen b4


if you have any of those computers lying around that you dont want ill take one .. i have a few applications that would relish 4 cores..

good luck

[tobyaxis]

The Shop Owner is still using MC V8.1.1 on a PC with 6MB Graphics RAM, 256 RAM, and a Pentium 3 LOL

He just WON a HUGE Contract with a Large Company. They want him to UpGrade ASAP. Their Designers use Catia V5 to Model the Molds.

As for the Dual Xeon Processors, MCX2 isn't setup for it, but I was told that you can Asign a Dedicated Processor by changing the Affinity to CPU1.
That means all your other Softwares can be set to run on CPU0.
How fast do you guys think it will be having MC on a Dedicated Processor?

An External Hard Drive is a good idea. The PC is going to be locked in a separate room and Secured to a Desk.


What do you think about the Pollywell Builds?
http://www.polywell.com/us/cad/

[ger21]

As for the Dual Xeon Processors, MCX2 isn't setup for it, but I was told that you can Asign a Dedicated Processor by changing the Affinity to CPU1.
That means all your other Softwares can be set to run on CPU0.
How fast do you guys think it will be having MC on a Dedicated Processor?

You realy don't need to change the affinity. With a dual core or 2 processors, Windows will do a pretty good job of assigning threads.

And if the software isn't multithreaded, a quad core processor (or 2 dual cores) will be wasted. One core would be doing the mastercam stuff, a second picks up whatever else needs to be done, and two would basically sit idle. Unless you're doing some serious multitasking.

As for the Polywell, they seem to score well whenever I see them in reviews.

Intels seem to be a bit faster than comparable AMD's right now, so I'd go the Intel route. Get 4 gigs of ram. The video card is where the money goes, and will probably make the biggest performance difference, although I don't know how well MasterCAM uses the video card.

[MrG]

I dont know too much about multiprocessor systems..

you should check this site out....

http://www.2cpu.com/

it has a forum for this stuff and if you ask the question in the right way with all your info you should get a good feedback of answers..


Just as a general fyi

try too keep the room cool or make sure its temp controlled.. i dont know where u are but some of the shops i have been in are not cooled and can get pretty hot and dusty and therefore not ideal for 2 intels...

good luck

[ger21]

Just as a general fyi

try too keep the room cool or make sure its temp controlled.. i dont know where u are but some of the shops i have been in are not cooled and can get pretty hot and dusty and therefore not ideal for 2 intels...

good luck

The new Intel processors (Core 2 duo and Xeons) run much cooler than AMD's an older intels. About 30% cooler.

I've been using only dual processor machines for about 10 years now, starting with a dual Pentium 166. Paid about $1K per processor.
The response is much quicker, especially when multitasking.

[cadcam]

You really don't need to change the affinity.

Well yes you really do if you want to dedicate the 01 processor when it comes to Dual systems and windows does not know to automatically set this for the second processor if the software was not built for multi-threading.

I have been like you Gerry used them for along time and have few duals laying around.

Toby if you have other software’s like Catia going on the same box that will support the dual I would go with it. You will see a little speed increase but not enough to justify the cost.

However, not to fare down the road MasterCam will support this and coming fast.

[ger21]

Well yes you really do if you want to dedicate the 01 processor when it comes to Dual systems and windows does not know to automatically set this for the second processor if the software was not built for multi-threading.

OK, if you want to assign a specific processor, than youdo need to set the affinity. But, from my experience, I doubt that it would make much difference. I have a dual core Athlon X2 right now, and if I run a cpu intensive app (CAM toolpath generation or rendering)that's not multithreaded, the task manager will show 1 CPU at 100% usage until the task at hand is complete. It usually will not dip below 100% either. So if the app can't use more than 1 processor, and it's already using 100% with Windows assigning tasks, then setting the affinity won't give any increase in performance. You may get worse performance, because the one cpu is locked into the 1 app, so while that ap is running, you basically are back to a 1 cpu system.

Just my experience.

[tobyaxis]

Well gentlemen,

It seems I have asked in the right place.

The room will be kept at about 68 degrees F with no windows, two doors, and weather stripping.
There will be No One Aloud to just walk in either LOL.
The PC will most likely get a Dust Bag (Some input is needed here as well).

This PC will be handling Catia V5 files in the 150MB to 750MB Size Range using MC to Program them for the Two Gantries. Basicly off the wall sized Mold Assemblies.

Any information/suggestions on Dust Filters is needed as well. I have never used one and thinking about Heat Generation in the Xeon Processors.

LOL, it would be nice to have two Air Conditioning units too. One for the PC and One for the Programmer

What do you guys think? Yes that is a good idea, or No your out of your mind knuckle head

[Matt Berube]

A couple interesting links.

SHOULD the programmer get an AC unit ? Absolutely. The computer ?...Who cares... But anyway the first link seems to have some PC climate control available.

http://www.rittal-corp.com/products/

http://www.pcguard.co.uk/computer_ph...l_security.htm

[kentavv]

OK, if you want to assign a specific processor, than youdo need to set the affinity. But, from my experience, I doubt that it would make much difference.

Completely agree. The only difference setting affinity will make is lowering the chance that an on-board CPU cache will need to be rebuilt because of the process migrating to another CPU. If you are accessing large quantities of memory (likely in CAD/CAM) there are already lots of cache misses. The only time that I have seen affinity make a difference is with real CPU insensitive apps that mainly fit within the caches of the CPU in the presence of competing applications. Multi-core is not a lot different from this perspective other than some processors have shared caches for the cores while others have independent caches. In the situation of shared caches, the performance of the CPU does not scale as well with the number of cores because of cache contention.

Bottom line: you're getting a great machine. You may be ahead of the software you are running but with technologies such as OpenMP multi-core/processor programming has become a lot easier and we should expect lot more applications utilizing parallel design. Just consider redunancy a little... UPS, RAID, backup, etc. Also, if you need additional machines and cost does become a factor consider the 490 line as well.

[ger21]

If money was no object, I'd get a 30" monitor. Seriously, if it were me, I'd back off on the processors to 5150's to get the 30" if I had too. Speed difference would probably only be about 5%.

Also, I'd get a 160 Gig 10K rpm main hdd, and then get a 500Gig for storage. It looks like the 750 Gig is no longer available. Or maybe 3 160gig's in a Raid 0 array. Dell seems to be a little limiting for hdd configuration.

I've got a 10K raptor in my machine, and it screams. Boots so fast if you blink you'll miss it.

[kentavv]

Are you getting the 64 bit version of XP? If not, even with 4GB of memory applications will only be able to access 2GB max and in practice often much less because of fragmentation of their assigned 2GB. The limit may be increased a bit by adding /3GB to the boot.ini file but if your applications will run on 64bit XP go that route. Is there a 64bit version of Mastercam yet?

Also, if you go the route of using RAID consider RAID 5. The 690 line has a very nice drive controller available that supports RAID 5.

For background the common RAIDs are 0, 1, 5. There are actual many more including nested RAIDs which combine methods, e.g. 0+1.
RAID 0 writes a file partially on each drive. This increases performance but decreases reliability because reliability is now the product each individual drive... also lose one drive all all the data is gone. Fine for gamers but not for the office.
RAID 1 writes the same information to all drives. This does not change performance but provides redundancy at the cost of extra drives.
RAID 5 is similar to RAID 0 in that is strips the data across drives but it also includes extra information, parity, that is able to be used to reconstruct a replaced drive often without shutting the system down. Performance increases (minus some on writes to handle the parity) AND fault tolerance increases.

If go the RAID route be sure you are getting a hardware RAID controller. Do not use software/OS RAID.

[tobyaxis]

Wow, Lots of information.

I never knew those Filter Fans or Enclosers existed.
Thanks for everyones help.

Do you guys have anymore tips on who to go with?
Dell, @Xi Computer or Pollywell Workstations?

Does anyone know anything about Polywell? I found them in Cadalyst Magazine along with @Xi Computer.

http://www.dell.com/content/products...ist&l=en&s=bsd
http://www.polywell.com/us/cad/
http://www.xicomputer.com/products/mtowerxeon.asp

[ger21]

http://www.dirtbag.biz/

[tobyaxis]

http://www.dirtbag.biz/

Thanks Gerry, I always wanted a "DirtBag"!!!!!!!

LOL, when I asked a friend if he knew anything about Computer DirtBags he asked "what the heck do you want one of those for " He suggested Seven Eleven, LOL.

BTW Just made a $25,833.00 PC Workstation, Hmmmmm, a little pricey (chair)

[MrG]

this question always comes up...

If you buy from dell you need to make use of teh coupons that are available .. and you should get the best service they offer for tech support gold or something...

it will cost a little but from my experience you will get a machine thats specs and configurations that have been tested to work very well together.... and be trouble free for a long time.. they dont want you calling them with problems..usually with dell it wont be bleeding edge technology and it will maybe cost a little more that others .. but then you dont have to worry about fixing it when something goes wrong call them and tell them to fix it....

just my 2 cents comps are pretty simple to fix if someone knows how.. but when it comes to cruch time you dont want to waste shop resources time/ money on fixing a computer...

Wow, Lots of information.

I never knew those Filter Fans or Enclosers existed.
Thanks for everyones help.

Do you guys have anymore tips on who to go with?
Dell, @Xi Computer or Pollywell Workstations?

Does anyone know anything about Polywell? I found them in Cadalyst Magazine along with @Xi Computer.

http://www.dell.com/content/products...ist&l=en&s=bsd
http://www.polywell.com/us/cad/
http://www.xicomputer.com/products/mtowerxeon.asp

[tobyaxis]

this question always comes up...

If you buy from dell you need to make use of teh coupons that are available .. and you should get the best service they offer for tech support gold or something...

it will cost a little but from my experience you will get a machine thats specs and configurations that have been tested to work very well together.... and be trouble free for a long time.. they dont want you calling them with problems..usually with dell it wont be bleeding edge technology and it will maybe cost a little more that others .. but then you dont have to worry about fixing it when something goes wrong call them and tell them to fix it....

just my 2 cents comps are pretty simple to fix if someone knows how.. but when it comes to cruch time you dont want to waste shop resources time/ money on fixing a computer...

That is a Big Plus!!!!!
The PC I have here at home is a Dell Dimension 4700 P4 H/T 3.20GHz each, 1.5GB RAM, 256MB Graphics RAM. Bought it from Costco (http://www.costco.com/) with a 3 year Full Parts, Labor, and In House Service for $899.99.
It also came with a 19" Flat Panel E193FP.

I'm starting to think the Dell 690 Workstation will fit the bill for these guys. Not quite as powerful as the Polywell or the @Xi Computer, but should be good enough for it's intended use.

Add a DIRTBAG for the PC and a DIRTBAG in front of it and they should be in Business, LOL. Maybe a Filter Fan too.

[wuzzle]

Might want to consider at least 2 monitors if not three. It's almost like having separate computers. Can put toolbars in one and work piece in the other. Can't have enough real estate. There's a thingy out there that allows you hook up 3 monitors to a single card for like $229.00. Can't remember what it was called. All new cards allow for 2 monitors. Being this is going to be in a sealed room, and the tower should come with it's own filters, I think any other dust filtering else will be a waste of $, and probably a bother to deal with. I know I would have this system custom built instead of off the shelf. Much better selection of quality parts and you get exactly what your company needs and it's tailored for the company. It will allow for an alluminum tower that will allow for better heat disapation and will have internal filters. Antec and Soho are among the best. Also, these tower manufacturers have units that are water cooled, not only making them cooler, but quieter. Antec also makes among the best if not the best power supplies in the industry. Last thing you want is for your ps to puke on you in the middle of an important task. But the most important advise I have to offer is get a custom built system. Just my 2c.