[mrcodewiz]

I am looking for a face mill to use on my G0704 for making skim cuts across 6061. It needs to be about 3" to face the entire part (not up to a shoulder).

Does anyone have opinions on what (economical) face mill and insert would give me the best finish?

I was looking at this face mill at wholesale tool:


Screw Insert Type 45 deg. Face Mills (WT)

thanks,
Kevin

[SCzEngrgGroup]

For a few $ more, you can get a Glacern (Glacern Machine Tools - Premium Quality Vises and Tooling), which is a work of art. I have their 4" 45 degree face mill, and it leaves a near mirror finish on aluminum.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mrcodewiz]

Thanks, Himy. I have heard good things about the Glacern. I should probably just go that route. My intent is to use this solely for finish cuts (< .015 or so). Would I be served better to just get the 4" - i.e. would the G0704 run it OK?

[mrcodewiz]

and also, could you tell me which inserts you are using?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Thanks, Himy. I have heard good things about the Glacern. I should probably just go that route. My intent is to use this solely for finish cuts (< .015 or so). Would I be served better to just get the 4" - i.e. would the G0704 run it OK?

I suspect the G0704 could probably handle light cuts - the 45 degree inserts reduce the HP requirement substantially. I've done 0.150" cuts in aluminum with my knee mill, and it didn't really complain.

I use the inserts Glacern sells for aluminum - not cheap, but well worth it if you care about finish quality. And they seem quite rugged - I've got a lot of miles on mine, and they still work perfectly.

Regards,
Ray L.

[paulsv]

I have a Shars 2 and 1/2 inch 45 degree facemill for my G0704. They sell lots of other sizes, and seem to be a pretty nice product. Not as pretty as the Glacern, but reasonably priced.

shars.com - 45 Degree Square Shoulder Face SEHWSEHTSEHW

The 2.5 inch does very well on the G0704 in aluminum, but I wouldn't go any bigger than that if you plan to cut steel. At the lower speed required for steel, I don't think the 704 would have enough power to take much of a cut with a 4 inch face mill. Even with the 2.5 inch, I have to cut steel at higher speeds than I would like. I have the stock motor, though.

[mrcodewiz]

I have a Shars 2 and 1/2 inch 45 degree facemill for my G0704. They sell lots of other sizes, and seem to be a pretty nice product. Not as pretty as the Glacern, but reasonably priced.

shars.com - 45 Degree Square Shoulder Face SEHWSEHTSEHW

The 2.5 inch does very well on the G0704 in aluminum, but I wouldn't go any bigger than that if you plan to cut steel. At the lower speed required for steel, I don't think the 704 would have enough power to take much of a cut with a 4 inch face mill. Even with the 2.5 inch, I have to cut steel at higher speeds than I would like. I have the stock motor, though.

Hmmm... The shell mills seem to be about the same price between shars and glacern but the glacern arbor is about double the price of the shars. The glacern arbor sure does look a lot nicer. Is the roughly $40 savings worth it (either way)?

[TXFred]

I've been very impressed by the Tormach face mill. It's smaller, only 1.5" across.

It's not a 45 degree mill, so it probably isn't as fast as some others. On the other hand, it can do limited amounts of contouring.

I use the inserts that Tormach sells, and have so far run it on aluminum and cast iron. I haven't tried steel or stainless yet.

[rwskinner]

I use the Glacern FM45 and with an arbor from Shars that I shortened for my TTS system. Works great and very nice finish. Yes, the arbor was much less expensive at shars.

Richard

[mrcodewiz]

That's a thought. I am definitely getting the glacern face mill though.

[mrcodewiz]

I use the Glacern FM45 and with an arbor from Shars that I shortened for my TTS system. Works great and very nice finish. Yes, the arbor was much less expensive at shars.

Richard

Richard-

Sorry to dredge this back up. Are you using the .75"shank, 1" arbor from shars? Did you modify it to have a recessed shoulder ala TTS or just shorten the shank? What diameter face mill do you have?

[WOTDesigns]

if you are wanting to use it with TTS I would get the .75" and order a $10 conversion kit from tormach for the shoulder.

[rwskinner]

I'm using the Glacern FM45 face mill, 2.5" cut. Yes, I bought the straight shank arbor and shortened it. I have not put a TTS adapter on yet but since my collet does not go below the spindle it's been very repeatable.

Richard

Richard-

Sorry to dredge this back up. Are you using the .75"shank, 1" arbor from shars? Did you modify it to have a recessed shoulder ala TTS or just shorten the shank? What diameter face mill do you have?

[mcarvey]

Have you tried a fly cutter? I've had good luck with them for taking skim cuts and they are way cheaper than a face mill.

G5717 Fly Cutter Set - 3/4" Shank

-Matt

[SCzEngrgGroup]

If you want best possible finish, and lowest power requirement, get a 45 degree facemill. The Glacerns are outstanding. If you want OK, but cheap, the Shars and CDCO have decent 90 degree facemills for about $30 for a 2" diameter, which will still beat the heck out of a flycutter. I have a 4" Glacern 45 degree, and a CDCO 2" 90 degree. For most routine purposes, I use the CDCO, just because I have it on TTS, so it's quicker to get in and out. But when I want best finish, or I'm doing a large part, the Glacern will leave a near mirror finish, and operates very smoothly and near-silently.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mrcodewiz]

I think I have settled on the glacern. I was originally going to get the 4" but I think I am going to go with the 3 instead. That should be easier on the machine and it will make adapting it to TTS a little easier since I can just cut down one of the shar1s " arbors like rwskinner did.

[wizard]

I like to second the idea of a fly cutter if you really want cheap. The quality can actually be rather good with a fly cutter if sharpened correctly. For aluminum you can keep the RPMs up to avoid the rather slow feeding with a fly cutter.

Now if you find a fly cutter too cheap the only other thing inhale experience with is an Iscar facing tool at work. This is one with an integral R8 shank. It has been around the shop for a long time and I don't see anything similar listed on Iscars web site. It has worked really well in both Aluminum and steel though.

The one thing I really like about this old Iscar is the Integral R8 shank which is one less thing to worry about. It uses octagonal inserts.

Other than that I can't help much.

[mrcodewiz]

Just to follow up on this - I bit the bullet and got the 3" with the Korloy inserts. I played around with it a little last night but I have not been able to find the right speed/feed combination for a great finish. This was the best I could come up with - I think it was 2000 RPM and 30 IPM. I tried both .005 and .01 DOC. I tried it with the Noga mister and Kool-Mist as well as without the mister and just spraying WD-40 on it.

What do you guys run them at?




Also, here is a little eye candy because I do think this is a nice face mill.





I bought the 3/4" shafted arbor from Shars since Glacern didn't have one. I had to cut the shaft down to fit the 3/4" collet as well as make a spacer to fit the facemill.

[mrcodewiz]

I asked Glacern and their response was:

Thanks for your email. A general starting point for this cutter on a CNC machine is 1500SFM, 0.010 inches per tooth feed rate. This is a fairly conservative starting point. Slower speeds should be used if your machine is limited in horsepower and rigidity, and lower feedrates can improve surface quality for finishing operations.

The inserts can handle up aggressive numbers up to 3000 SFM and 0.015 IPT feedrate if the machine and workpiece are rigid enough. However, note that the setup must be tightly controlled to prevent damage to the workpiece, tools, and machine.

By my math that comes out to about 2000RPM and 100IPM for 'conservative' which seems crazy fast to me.

[rwskinner]

I turn mine FM45-2.500" around 2500 RPM but I slow my feed down to around 40-50 IPM mainly because of the flying material and my 6061 comes out like a mirror.

I show for the 3" at 1230 RPM @ 60 IPM with a 0.050" DOC and a full Width 3" cut using GWizard and 1835 @ 90 ipm taking a 1.50 wide cut.

Richard