[toddisbn]

Paul G,
Could we please have a subforum for the X3.
Please don't flame... I have just noticed that the Sieg X3 is gaining so much support that it is probably time that it was placed in a dedicated forum :argue:
Just a thought!!???!!
Todd

[Stepper Monkey]

Seconded. It seems odd that what is probably the far and away most common machine used by folks on this site doesn't have its own area.
Rather like Mach, it seems that even sub-forums would be appropriate.

That and it would free up the benchtop mill forum for those of us that have, well, benchtop mills.

[in2steam]

Although I now own one I would disagree for one simple reason, do they have one for the x1 x2 either, I would say they have more numbers as far as owners. Segregation from others who own the x's and RF-3x series which has similiarish ablites in my eyes just makes it harder to convey the good ideas, and another area to check.... If you look at the specfic areas they have very few messages unlike this area(with the exception haas).

chris

[Stepper Monkey]

Then how about one for that whole CLASS of machine? It seems that a lot of time on here is spent attempting to deal with the confusion of machines from 15 pounds to 300+ all being in the same category and compared side-by-side. An X3 and a Proxxon or Sherline aren't even close to the same thing.

Even a subforum or SOME distinction between light- and middle- weight machines would work well.

There is a definite leaning toward "real" full-sized machines here, and each brand has it's own forum. In contrast, ALL machines in the hobby class, even though there is arguably a much greater variety, capability, and number of distinctions between them, are all lumped into one group.

I see in2steams point, and it perhaps makes some sense not to just add an X3 forum. However the problem is solved, I do agree something needs to be done though.

[in2steam]

I would agree with that more, although part of the smaller machine area is that many people don't have the same experience that the larger more profesional machines bring, again better to be all for one then one for one.
I suppose I could understand a micro/mini distinction, although many people blur the lines from one to the other, at least on a subforum basis maybe that would not be a bad idea.
You know for someone like me I own multiple sizes/style of machine and I use another at work, I can see one problem though, you would have to name them, saying x3 or rf30 does not really work because differenet vendors use different #ing patterns even though they are exactly the same, how many times have we seen the "is the HF xxxx the same as the Grizzly xxxx or sieg xx......"
Saying micro or mini, or small might bring its own issues as well, I suppose you could add a sticky to the top, but many people don't know or don't think to look at rules/stickies. I am not dead set against it, I just don't want to loose out on good info becuase its sorted off to a different area. As it stands now there are areas that I see the same kinds of posts that should be in the sub areas, if you look there are alot of sub areas, and I mean alot, not that its bad, but lets not make it confusing as many people are still learning terminolgy. I only look here, general metal working, minilathes, general machining, phase converters and vfd's, mach-way to much there, welding, and gecko so how many did I not look in....
I think that benchtop mills is very well stated, the larger machines should have had there own, I am not completely sure that the lets say RF 30 and smaller are all that different one to the next. Maybe edit the text of the current area, to say "benchtop mills ie sieg x1,x2,x3 RF30," or something to that effect.

chris

[skullworks]

I would like a sub forum for these machines - as is posts are scattered all over the zone...

[in2steam]

I already see a "does my mill fit into this area" on the large vertical machines area....
chris

[toddisbn]

Hi all..

I should not be so narrow minded and ask only for an X3 forum.

As stated above. The X3 only represents a portion of machines available.

The Sieg Collection is not the only type of machine available.

From my studies (Yeah I am a lurker for now) there are several candidates.
X1
X2
X3/SX3
Taig
Sherline
Then the other types of knee mills.

Some can classify each machine as Micro or Mini or whatever type of machine, but each has it merits and own little following.

Even though each machine is a mill, they all have seperate CNC conversion kits and different tooling. Although the sales litrature and representatives will tell you that they all are capable of cutting the same materials, they are fundimentally different in what audience that attract.

Take for example, model or jewlery designers... A Knee Mill may be concidered a little large, and even though they can be adjusted to become very acurate and able to handle such jobs, the fact remains, you are using a sledgehammer to nail in a thumbtack...

So is it better to classify by machine "name" or machine "type".

Well that probably need clarification.... Some could argue that the Taig and Sherline look the same and really are just brothers :argue: . But that does not mean that either machine uses the same CNC kit.

Then again, people could argue that there are different sytles of kits in the X3/SX3 that deserve their own forum.... Jeeez! where do you stop.

The end of the line is...

I have Machine X, I want to find others with Machine X and read what they have done with their machines.

This covers all aspects of that machine... All of the conversion kits, all of the tools and all of the work others have achieved with their machine.

There is nothing worse than opening a thread about stepper motors vs. servo motors to find they are talking about raising a knee on a big machine.... what the heck is a knee.... I have read that sherline manual back to front and found no knee... I banged my knee when i dropped it off the bench.... lol

[Stepper Monkey]

Those are some good points. Maybe we should start a new forum to discuss it! <ducks>

[in2steam]

Hi all..

I should not be so narrow minded and ask only for an X3 forum.

As stated above. The X3 only represents a portion of machines available.

The Sieg Collection is not the only type of machine available.

From my studies (Yeah I am a lurker for now) there are several candidates.
X1
X2
X3/SX3
Taig
Sherline
Then the other types of knee mills.

Some can classify each machine as Micro or Mini or whatever type of machine, but each has it merits and own little following.

Even though each machine is a mill, they all have seperate CNC conversion kits and different tooling. Although the sales litrature and representatives will tell you that they all are capable of cutting the same materials, they are fundimentally different in what audience that attract.

Take for example, model or jewlery designers... A Knee Mill may be concidered a little large, and even though they can be adjusted to become very acurate and able to handle such jobs, the fact remains, you are using a sledgehammer to nail in a thumbtack...

So is it better to classify by machine "name" or machine "type".

Well that probably need clarification.... Some could argue that the Taig and Sherline look the same and really are just brothers :argue: . But that does not mean that either machine uses the same CNC kit.

Then again, people could argue that there are different sytles of kits in the X3/SX3 that deserve their own forum.... Jeeez! where do you stop.

The end of the line is...

I have Machine X, I want to find others with Machine X and read what they have done with their machines.

This covers all aspects of that machine... All of the conversion kits, all of the tools and all of the work others have achieved with their machine.

There is nothing worse than opening a thread about stepper motors vs. servo motors to find they are talking about raising a knee on a big machine.... what the heck is a knee.... I have read that sherline manual back to front and found no knee... I banged my knee when i dropped it off the bench.... lol

You have a couple good points, also a couple misinformed points,

Knee mills don't fit into this fourm, although people regularly talk about them, I think there might be one or two that qaulify as benchtop, but even they are large. Apparently you admit that you don't know what it is farther down in the post, so a knee is the vertical table which raises on a "bridgeport" vertical or like a K&T horz(WWII era). Most knees wiegh more then machines were a discussing. Atlas made a number of knee mills which are benchtop but not really cnc able, most have not been made for 30+ years.

I don't think there is a defacto standard, but micro is sherline/taig/ proxon. Mini is pretty much every thing else I believe little machine shop had some info on the difference, more of a tittle then anything else.

I would say at least in my opinion that these machines actually lure the same kind of people, there ulitmate goal may be different in what they produce and what volume. Most of the people buying these machines are hobbbiest, or home shop machinst if you will. Some people use them as pros but I would think you would be hard pressed to find a machine shop who runs enitrely all benchtop models. Most of us are what I would consider poor, I can't go buy what I want so I have to get a smaller machine. Hence the cnc conversions, we are all either trying or don't care(retired from trying) about getting rich.
In the end these are for the most part nice machines, and again if you sell junk in any free market with others doing the same you are forced to make things better.

You are concerning yourself with what kit that the user hangs onto the machine, thats a litltle off base, concern yourself with the preformance of the whole. The machines almost all use the same tooling, the holders are either r8, mt, or er16. I am not sure were you were going with that point tooling is really a matter of what you purchase. Anyone who does machine work will tell you that its all about fixtures and there use, I can take a vise off my taig, and mount it to my atlas, and mount that to my seig, or my drill press. Does everything adapt, no, but alot does, and you can make plates and such to do so. That is were if you were to seperate areas I think you would loose out, something done on a sherline can work on a seig, maybe not directly but the idea is the same. One could argue that also applies to the larger machines also, and it does, but you are finding less and less of those machines used and sadly alot of knowledge is being lost to cnc machines.

As for jewelers using a bridgeport, some do, but I am pretty sure most use over priced machines which can do the same as a well equipped taig or sherline cnc. With one exception, you can almost always use a big machine to do small work, the machine is no more a brute then the small one if practiced work is applied. The only problem is that spindle speeds are not always ideal, as you probably know.

In the end I have a couple recommendations, purchase a guide to machinery of some sort, if you need some tittles I would be happy to provide some. You would be pleasantly supprised to find out how similiar all machines are to one another. If you really want to find an area were "machine X" is I reccomend you check yahoo, they have a group for every type of machine you can think of, not that this is not a good area, but worrying about mods to machines can get to be a task far beyond the scope of this forum, that can come down to what your serial number is because of a model change.
You are concerning yourself with content of the posts, I can understand that you are not always getting what you had hoped, but if you exaime what others have done with there machines you can apply some of that to your machine even if its a different make. There are not set rules of the road, its pretty much builders choice, moding and cnc is not like adding a header and inktake to a chevy, we all just have motors, and they all run the same.

If you lump what you own off into its area without regard to others, I think in the end you will loose, by your admission you don't know alot and are a lurker. If you get down to the knitty grtty the machines are made almost all the same way, they just use slightly different parts to get there.

I would never claim I know enough, I learn something new every day and as my wife tells me often I forget more everyday too.....

chris
p.s. the stepper vs servo argument, IMHO is the never going to go away.

[toddisbn]

Chris
I fully appreciate what you are saying, however the reason why I bought this subject up, is that after much lurking, and note taking, I have defined my envelope, ascertained what materials I wish to work with, defined a budget, heck I have designed my new haven down to how many stainless steel screws will be required to mount the stainless steel sheets to the walls in my yet to be purchase 20" shipping container (ok... I am not that anal :bs: ).
The symantecs associated with my end purchase are not really what I wanted a dedicated forum for... I am designing a web site that journals my fumbling along for others to gain insight
The reason I asked for a dedicated forum is that people who have gone through the thought process may need to find specific details about how to modify their machine for CNC and what little tricks can be gathered about said machine. I dont need to wade through hundreds of posts just to get there. And people like to be able to come to a place where other like minded people also lurk and occationally speak up. Hence why I was so self centered and asked for an X3 subforum initally.
Sure there are commonalities between all benchtop machines, and some very valid points get raised in this mish mash. But when I want hard cold facts about a machine, "I" personally much prefer to go to one space, then do my general chit chat in other areas. Sure I can learn from the big machines and small machines, but if I wish to kill neurons pursuing that avenue, then let it be on my head.
My first purchase will probably not be an X3... indeed the M3 from Sieg is on the market here in Australia. When I put a base on the mill from LMS, I will have a nice little Mill and Lathe. Then if the field satisfies my appitite to do harm to metal, then I may progress.
I realise that you are only seeking to help me, concidering I presented myself as a complete fool in the way I posed the topic. But please understand.... The underlying drift of my convo.... was, and still is valid.

Oh... ps.... emails and forums can always come across much more :bat: evil than desired, please understand, I take yours and everybodies advice in my stride, and appologise for my noobish beginings. Yes I understand a Knee Mill is actually a self supporting mill that is floor mounted, It much like a drill press has a table that can be lifted and head that can be used to more precisely control vertical feed.
I also understand why people have posted topics relating to knee mills in this forum, being that really in financial terms some cheap knee mills are on a $ per $ basis the same as these bench mills.
I for one fully appreciate that the forum is dedicated to CNC... not general state of the nation blow by blow of each machine's virtues. I was only sugesting these machines be given sub forums, much like JGRO and Joe's 2006 is in the DIY wood router machines are in another section of this great site.

All you guys contributing to the forums... Please keep up the great work :wave:

[in2steam]

I understand you perspective, not saying I completely disagree, but I don't agree either.-talk about waffle.

A big thumbs up to you for doing a website along with anyone else. I also agree that forums can come across as evil, I too have really take step back and look at what I am writing. Like I said any help you need then, ask not everyone can help, but someone most surely can.

As for hard facts about machines, as I went through the same thing, there are few websites that have compared and contrasted different machines, not very comphrensively, so maybe a sticky would be in order. I have often thought about it myself as I did my research, mainly because of vendor misprints/lack of knowledge of there own product. Ordering them and the asc. problems including international shipping, I would definaitley be in favor of that it would save alot noob questions that often repeated several times a month.

chris

[toddisbn]

Hey Paul....
Thanks so very very much.
I for one love the compromise, Surely the subforum covering at least the sieg as a breed of it own is great.
I appreciate the work you needed to put in, to enact the change, and also appreciate the effort of moving so of the posts.

:banana: :cheers: :banana:

[georgecort]

I'm thinking about buying Sieg X3/SUPER X3 if I can find an talk to someone that has one. Is it worth it? I'm planning to machine 7075 alum. Maybe triple clamps or other small parts that can be held in a sinlge 6 inch vise. Any advise would help...



Thanks

[actionhac]

All benchtop mills should be in the benchtop forum. I really would rather not jump from forum to subforum and read the same thing.
I am interested in all mills that will fit on a workbench, ideas for one will in most cases aply to another.
I have an X2 but I like the information for the X1, X3, Clausing, Atlas, Jet, Rong Fu, etc.

Robert

[BrendaEM]

Where's the Sieg forum?

[Deviant]

They were all combined into a single desktop mill forum.

Too many people couldn't understand the concept of posting in the appropriate forum.

[BrendaEM]

I don't like the subforums, but Sieg's products could have been put in their own forum.

Sometimes the most vocal group is not the majority. That's what I think happened in this case.