[nateman_doo]

I am torn between 2 different lathes. (yea I posted 3, but I will get to that).

The first lathe is the South bend 8K:
Grizzly.com

Its 2 THOUSAND dollars at Grizzly. However I found one locally for 1750. (not sure if grizzly offers coupons like HF does, that would be sweet)

Then there is a slightly larger Grizzly model G4000
Grizzly.com
It is a slightly larger capacity, AND HALF THE PRICE. Comes with more accessories like the steady rest, follow rest, and extra 7.25" 4 jaw chuck.


Now, since I am comparing a 2K lathe, I entered the G0752, which is 10x22 which is larger then both of them and still 3/4 the price of the south bend. Also comes with more accessories like the steady rest, follow rest, and an additional 6.5" 4 jaw chuck
Grizzly.com


I know that the Grizzly lathes are Chinese, and they have the same look as my HF 7x10 lathe. I know South Bend is an American company so the tool quality is much better (but if they are made in china also?). So enter the dilemma. I know I will be happier with a better quality south bend lathe, but 8x18 now, or 10x22 coming in handy further down the line...
Not to mention the south bend steady rest is $350, and a 5" 4 jaw chuck is $250.00.

One thing that still draws me into the South Bend is this picture:
Attachment 252862

It just looks so much more thought out, and has a wider opening for through parts (like barrels) 1.125"?

The Chinese Grizzly one:
Attachment 252864
0.78"?


So to have a south bend with a steady rest and extra chuck, im looking at $2565 (no shipping). For that kind of money, I can get the G4002 12x24 lathe with 6" & 8" chuck.

I look at it this way. Its better to have a better foundation, then a bigger one. I doubt I will ever need anything as big as the grizzly's, but who knows what the future holds.

What do you guys think? My ultimate decision will likely be made when I go to the grizzly showroom in PA and see them both. I welcome as much input as possible.

oh, and get this... another lathe JUST popped up out of no where while I was writing this:
Grizzly.com

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The G4000 is the generic 9x20 lathe sold by everybody and his brother for the last 20 years. It is not bad for the money, but it is a cheap, lightweight machine. However, there are about a billion upgrades that can be done to it, and gazillions of owners out there. By all reports, the G0602 is a much better lathe for very little additional money. While SouthBend is an American company I would not bet five cents that the 8K is actually made in the US. It would not be selling for only $2K if it was. Whether it is any better than the others, especially by enough to justify the much higher price, is anyones guess. I've never seen any review or post by anyone who's owned one. The larger spindle bore is a plus, depending on what you would be doing with it. Personally, I would never again buy a lathe without a quick-change gearbox. I avoid threading like the plague, because it's such a PITA setting up the gearing with manual change-gears (and, it seems, the gear tables that come with the machines ALWAYS have errors in them!).

Regards,
Ray L.

[nateman_doo]

You brought up a good point that I completely forgot about. I never did any type of threading because my 7x10 didn't have a gear box. The G9972Z does have one, it is 11x26 as well.
Grizzly.com

So far the 9972 is in the lead.

[pippin88]

Are you keeping it manual or converting it to CNC?

[nateman_doo]

Its not really a priority at the moment, but that doesnt mean later down the road I won't want too. I saw a youtube video of someone who is converting the 9972:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG9-yM2XiK8

[Al_The_Man]

Normally you don't keep the compound rest on a CNC'd lathe.
It usually allows fitting a larger, beefier tool post.
Al.

[nateman_doo]

Normally you don't keep the compound rest on a CNC'd lathe.
It usually allows fitting a larger, beefier tool post.
Al.

So does that mean you do not recommend the 9972?

[Wizbaa]

I have an SB 8K, but I haven't put a lot of hours on it yet. Much sturdier than the LMS 8.5x16 which I consider its direct competitor, though I don't think its worth what Grizzly is asking. I bought mine with the intention of CNCing it, so the lack of QCGB is moot while being a real PITA in the mean time. Oh and the ****ty 4" chuck they ship with the 8K only has a .8" throat so you can't make use of the big bore without a new chuck, on the flip side of that the 5" 3jaw D1-3 they sell is really nice! D1-3 native chucks aren't very common either.

I have no first hand experience with the G0752 or G4000 so I can't give you a comparison of the castings, but I was satisfied with my 8k compared to the Sieg(LMS) 8.5X16. If your going to keep it manual I don't recommend the 8K, its a solid little machine but being able to cut threads easily is a big deal.

EDIT: Check the general metal working sub-forum, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ew-sb1001.html

[Al_The_Man]

So does that mean you do not recommend the 9972?

No it was a comment on CNC'ing any manual lathe, the compound rest is a little redundant on a CNC lathe, I just did a Lathemaster and removing the compound rest enabled me to fit one size larger QCTP.
Al.

[nateman_doo]

I have an SB 8K, but I haven't put a lot of hours on it yet. Much sturdier than the LMS 8.5x16 which I consider its direct competitor, though I don't think its worth what Grizzly is asking. I bought mine with the intention of CNCing it, so the lack of QCGB is moot while being a real PITA in the mean time. Oh and the ****ty 4" chuck they ship with the 8K only has a .8" throat so you can't make use of the big bore without a new chuck, on the flip side of that the 5" 3jaw D1-3 they sell is really nice! D1-3 native chucks aren't very common either.

I have no first hand experience with the G0752 or G4000 so I can't give you a comparison of the castings, but I was satisfied with my 8k compared to the Sieg(LMS) 8.5X16. If your going to keep it manual I don't recommend the 8K, its a solid little machine but being able to cut threads easily is a big deal.

EDIT: Check the general metal working sub-forum, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ew-sb1001.html

I have been reading that thread for a while now. Exactly as I expected. A super quality machine. Im not sure how high I rate having a gear box and overall larger capacity vs superior quality. Seems to be a no brainer having better quality, but will a guy like me who hardly ever uses the lathe fully appreciate the quality vs the ease of a gear box and much larger capacity? I still want to stand in front of both machines. The SB1001 just got a bit higher vote (but UGH... its going to cost for the extra's!!)

[Wizbaa]

If you are looking for a occasional use, general purpose machine, then look at something a little larger. The capacity could come in handy, so will the gearbox. Look for something with power cross feed like the LMS 8.5x16

[nateman_doo]

Whats sad is that I am starting to entertain the G4003G gunsmiths lathe. I don't want the stand though since I already have a table for it, I wonder if they will reduce the price? I should be trying to finish my second CNC build before I buy a lathe. I really think that having the 4 jaw chuck will help with making the ball but housings though so that's why I think I will discard the SB1001 (doesnt come with the 4 jaw). I also doubt I will benefit from the quality of the build. I turned everything I needed so far with the HF 7x10 and that lathe doesn't even compare to EITHER of the lathes.

I may change my mind when I am standing in front of it, but that's why I think its awesome to go to the Grizzly store. Its about 2 hours away.

[bhurts]

If you can afford 2500 for the southbend you might be better off checking craigslist for awhile. I'm sure all those lathes work decent. I'm even more sure that for 2500 you can find a used machine that will come with everything you need and make the others look like toys.

Ben

[nateman_doo]

I found the south bend for 1750 on craigs list. Thats what started all this.
The rest on craigs list were full sized lathes like Mazak & mori Seiki that weigh thousands of pounds.

[nateman_doo]

Dumb general lathe question. How do folks check the TIR on the chuck? I see straight bars in there, but what are those bars called? I just looked for 1" round stock precision ground on McMaster to foot the bill, but is there some sort of tool name that is the proper tool? A foot long precision ground steel round stock from McMaster would probably work for me, but if the right tool isn't much more then I will get one.

Edit. I found what I think im looking for, but its wider then I would like it to be:
shars.com - Precision Cylinder Squares
3 or 4" in the chuck? Id rather something with a 1" diameter.

Found what I think is an acceptable choice, a hardened precision steel shaft. Its about $40, for a 1" thick 12" shaft that is much more accurate for straightness
"Shafts are case hardened and precision ground for exacting diameter and straightness tolerances. They have a 9 rms micron finish (unless noted) for inch sizes; 12 rms micron finish (unless noted) for metric sizes. Straightness tolerance is 0.002" per foot for inch sizes; 0.03 mm per 300 mm (unless noted) for metric sizes. Ends are beveled."

[MichaelHenry]

It would be a shame to subject a quality cylinder square to the abuse of being mounted in a lathe chuck, but the Shars probably doesn't qualify for the same sort of quality as B&S or Taft cylinder squares.

I've used 1" Case 60 Thomson shaft (probably what MMC sell) in the past as a general indication of alignment but a 3-jaw lathe chuck, especially a no-name import can be expected to have several thou of runout. Not an issue with a 4-jaw or a Set-Tru-type 3-jaw or 6-jaw chuck.

There is a purpose-design piece of tooling for checking the alignment of the headstock to the ways but I can't remember what it is called at the moment.

[pippin88]

I think they are just called "test bars"

[luv2ride]

I use drill rod/silver steel. I got it on sale with free shipping from Enco and it has serve well. I bought W-1 water hardening but you can get others too.

[rowbare]

TIR on a lathe chuck is mostly irrelevant. Three jaw chucks might show close to zero at one diameter but certainly not across a range of diameters. Precise adjustment of TIR is what the 4 jaw chuck and collets are for. You do want to make sure that the collet mating surfaces are good though.

As some have mentioned, in the 10 inch range the G0602 is about the best deal out there. bdtools sells a cnc conversion kit for it on ebay for a reasonable price so if you might cnc it later on, that might be something to consider.

bob

[MichaelHenry]

I think they are just called "test bars"

That's it - Miller sells them:

Miller Machine & Fabrication - Products

Mike