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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > Prolight turning center mach 3 conversion
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    67
    Can I ask you for a hyperlink to the place where one can buy the retrofit kit? I have been looking at what is in Ebay but Before I make any stupid mistake would like to have a bit of advice! and basically I'm doing exactly what you are doing! I have a lathe and want to put a full set of motors to x y axis and I will probably make my own 3 phase motor so it can be controlled by the the CNC controller.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3447
    If you want to keep it DEAD simple, buy a Gecko 540 http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive...ives/g540.html

    Than add a C3 - Index Pulse Card (for RPM feedback from your motor so it can sync the feed and RPM for threading).
    CNC4PC

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    67
    So even when you are only using two axis on your lathe... you still using a four axis gecko drive? and more important what driver you are using to get the gecko to work! because the gecko is just a drive for the motors not a direct interface with the computer? Please if what I say sounds to stupid don't be angry, I'm just trying to find out what can be done in the best possible way! I'm not in a very comfortable $$$ position.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    3447
    Mark, the Gecko is the driver and breakout board. Its the full package. Yes you will be using 2 out of 4 of the drivers. This leaves you room for expansion, or in worst case scenario you have a backup driver. Its user friendly and fast to install. Since you are tight on $, and lack the technical knowledge of the overall conversion i would go with something easy, well documented, and is backed by a company who has someone on the tech support line 9-5. If your low on $, your in the wrong hobby haha.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    Mark, what type of machine are you trying to retrofit? Is it already set up for CNC or are you converting a manual machine?

    I also have the prolight 1000 lathe and used Leadshine Digital stepper drives for each axis and a breakout board from Sound Logic. They are not all in one boards so it takes a little more wiring, but I think in the end you get more bang for your buck because the drives are more powerful and can take more voltage and amps. I needed three drives for my lathe because I have an automatic tool changer, but your correct that a regular lathe only needs two stepper drives.

    Along with the drives you would need a power supply and a breakout board which transfers the computers signals to the stepper drives. There are a ton of stepper drives and breakout boards on the market so there are a lot of choices to make. For the most part you get what you pay for. Cheap drives can break easily and offer no support. Also cheap breakout boards can be low quality and have less features than more expensive ones.

    If this is your first CNC build I suggest doing a lot of searching on the web and learn as much as you can about stepper drives and breakout boards so you know how they work and hook up. I have wired up three machines so far and still have a ton to learn!

    Another option to the Gecko drive is an all in one made by Leadshine. The unit only has three drives in it but has better specs and will handle more amps and volts than the gecko all in one. Here is a link to the drive. The Geckos are nice, but to me this is a better way to go.

    3-Axis DSP Based Digital Stepper Drive Max 60 VDC / 6.0A | Automation Technology Inc

    Dale P.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    9
    I have a lathe and want to put a full set of motors to x y axis and I will probably make my own 3 phase motor so it can be controlled by the the CNC controller.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3447
    "If this is your first CNC build I suggest doing a lot of searching on the web and learn as much as you can about stepper drives and breakout boards so you know how they work and hook up. I have wired up three machines so far and still have a ton to learn!"

    ^ Agree!

  8. #28
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    Feb 2010
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    3447

  9. #29
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    Feb 2010
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    3447
    Quote Originally Posted by boatlover View Post
    More pictures.

    The chuck has the 2 1/4" X 8 back plate for mounting.
    Do you have paypal boat lover? If you were to just sell that chuck, how much would you be looking to get?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for the info. I just bought a Prolight turning center yesterday. It too is missing the control box, has some damaged wires, but otherwise looks new. I am new to CNC so I plan to go the easy rout. I have a 4 axis mill a friend build to inlay pool cues. So I have a little experience in using Mach 3. My mill has the deep groove Gecko 540 kit with 270oz motors. I plan to use this same kit to upgrade the Prolight. I apologize in advance, because I will be asking a lot of stupid questions. Most of what I am reading here is Greek to me. I was completely lost 10 months ago, when trying to learn how to run the mill. This just seems like the next step.

    Thanks, Larry

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    67
    I'm working now in the process of manufacturing a automatic turret for my small lathe project. I'm trying to make a small lathe... in the size of the Emco Compact 5 ish.. and for me a CNC Lathe without automatic tool changer is not very practical. Attachment 203688Attachment 203690Attachment 203692Attachment 203694

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    Larry please post pictures of you machine so we can see what you have which will allow us to help you better. Don't worry about the wiring if you take it one step at a time it's pretty easy.

    Mark, I love your ATC! I agree that it's really helpful with a cnc lathe so you can program the tool locations. My changer holds 4 square tools and 4 round bits such as boring bars. Right now I have been just using one tool and haven't taken the time to program the locations of each tool. To be honest I'm a little confused on how to program them and to me it looks like I need to have the home limit switches set up so the lathe can auto home each axis when it's first turned on as it doesn't keep it's settings when powered down.

    Also I have read that Mach 3 isn't set up to run a ATC and you have to write your own program. I have my tool changer set up so I can advance the tool by pressing the + key on my keyboard. I just plan to put a pause in my program when a tool change is needed and manually press the + key until the correct tool jogs into place. Some day I will try to write the program to get it working, but I'm waiting for Mach 4 to come out first as it might have a tool changer feature.

    Here is a picture of the inside of my tool changer. As you can see there is a locking leaver so the turret can be locked into position by turing the motor back a little. This is why a program to turn the tool changer will take a little time to write as the tool needs to advance and then turn back to lock it into place. My tool changer also has a micro switch inside which clicks every full rotation. I'm guessing that Prolight used this as a type of home switch.

    Dale P.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC03823.JPG  

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    4415
    I will jump in.
    Quote Originally Posted by boatlover View Post
    Larry please post pictures of you machine so we can see what you have which will allow us to help you better. Don't worry about the wiring if you take it one step at a time it's pretty easy.

    I agree! We all love pictures.

    Mark, I love your ATC! I agree that it's really helpful with a cnc lathe so you can program the tool locations. My changer holds 4 square tools and 4 round bits such as boring bars. Right now I have been just using one tool and haven't taken the time to program the locations of each tool. To be honest I'm a little confused on how to program them and to me it looks like I need to have the home limit switches set up so the lathe can auto home each axis when it's first turned on as it doesn't keep it's settings when powered down.

    Also I have read that Mach 3 isn't set up to run a ATC and you have to write your own program. I have my tool changer set up so I can advance the tool by pressing the + key on my keyboard. I just plan to put a pause in my program when a tool change is needed and manually press the + key until the correct tool jogs into place. Some day I will try to write the program to get it working, but I'm waiting for Mach 4 to come out first as it might have a tool changer feature.

    Not true at all. You just either need to get a macro that does the specific rotation for each tool. The quantity of tools in a changer are all variables that have to be accounted for in the macro. There are a few other changes within Mach and your post processor to get the correct code. Though I dont know how to write one, I have one in my Dyna and it will advance according to the called tool. Hoss, RWSkinner, Ray and many others have tool changers running from Mach.

    Here is a picture of the inside of my tool changer. As you can see there is a locking leaver so the turret can be locked into position by turing the motor back a little. This is why a program to turn the tool changer will take a little time to write as the tool needs to advance and then turn back to lock it into place. My tool changer also has a micro switch inside which clicks every full rotation. I'm guessing that Prolight used this as a type of home switch.

    Actually what I believe you are seeing is a pawl that is electrically activated to allow the tool changer to be bidirectional. If you dont hook it up the changer can only go one way and has to back up. Very similar to the Dyna. MRM has a good build log on a DM3000. He explains the use of that pawl and actuator. IIRC it was a 3 volt switch. Seems like he burnt it up. Might want to read about that part first. I have the macro he uses on his video but it is a single direction macro and is time consuming. Hope this helps. I personally think having limit and homing switches can only increase your awareness of position or repeatability and accuracy has to be better. Maybe if only a little.
    Dale P.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    4415
    I will be happy to send you a copy of the macro. It is pretty easy to manipulate the quantity of tools, rotation & speed IIRC. It is a 1 way macro though. It might help your understanding of what needs to be written (again not trying to offend if you know how to write one, I dont). If I can find it I will post it in text form and you can understand what it is doing. The more savvy in the group could maybe tell us how to edit it for bidirectional control and a relay for the activation of the pawl (which i have been referring to as an actuator). Here is a link to MRM's in action.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCythqY7Abw

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    4415
    Not meaning to hijack or offend only to assist. This is the macro. It is truly an m1s file but to read it correctly I used wordpad.


    If IsLoading() Then
    'Do Nothing, program loading

    Else



    ' Dim Variables

    Dim Num_Tools As Integer
    Dim CW_Steps_Per_Tool As Integer
    Dim CCW_Steps As Integer
    Dim HoldingDRO As Integer
    Dim Requested_Tool As Integer
    Dim Current_Tool As Integer
    Dim CW_Feed As Integer
    Dim CCW_Feed As Integer

    'Dim moves As Integer
    'Dim total_move As Integer


    ' set up some vars

    Num_Tools = 6
    CW_Move_Per_Tool = 360/Num_Tools
    CCW_Move = 10
    HoldingDRO = 1050
    Requested_Tool = GetSelectedTool()
    Current_Tool = GetCurrentTool()
    CW_Feed = 3000
    CCW_Feed = 2000
    Current_Feed = GetOEMDRO(818)


    ' start tool change

    Message ("Requested Tool No=" & Requested_Tool)

    If Requested_Tool > Num_Tools Then
    Message "Requested Tool No. too high, program stopped."
    Code "M30"
    End
    End If

    If Requested_Tool < 1 Then
    'Message "Requested Tool No. too low, program stopped."
    Code "M30"
    End
    End If

    If Requested_Tool = Current_Tool Then
    ' do nothing
    Else
    ' lets do some changing
    If Requested_Tool > Current_Tool Then moves = Requested_Tool - Current_Tool
    If Requested_Tool < Current_Tool Then moves = Num_Tools - Current_Tool + Requested_Tool

    total_move = (moves * CW_Move_Per_Tool)+(CCW_Move/2)

    'Move to safe position
    Code "G0 G53 Z-1 X-.25"
    'Pause for 1/2 second
    Code "G04 P0.5"

    Code "G91 G94" 'incremental & Feed per minute
    Code "G01 A" & total_move & " F" & CW_Feed
    Code "G01 A-" & CCW_Move & " F" & CCW_Feed
    While IsMoving()
    sleep(10)
    Wend

    SetCurrentTool Requested_Tool
    SetUserDRO HoldingDRO, Requested_Tool
    Code "G90" ' back to absolute movement
    Code "F" & Current_Feed
    End If
    End If

    ' end of tool change

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    3447
    dang thats bad ass! !

  17. #37
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by diyengineer View Post
    dang thats bad ass! !
    Hopefully it was some information I provided. Which part?

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    Isn't a macro a "program"? And some thing you have to write your self as Mach doesn't offer any help? I guess I need to look into Macros further and see what I need to do to get my changer working.


    As for the tool changer the part I was showing is just a brake and when backed on to it it takes all of the play out of the tool changer. There is just a spring hooked up to it and no electronics. If you don't back up the tool changer on to the brake you will have some play in the turret as the only thing stopping it from turning is the stepper motor. I have watched some Prolight videos on youtube that were running the original software and the tool changer always backed up a bit onto this stop when performing a tool change.

    Dale P.

  19. #39
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    Nov 2009
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    Yes the changer will always have to back onto the pawl regardless. It doesnt have to go 300 degrees to get there if the tool was 60 degrees away. This allows the tool height to remain constant as there is an independent adjustment for that. I would almost bet you there is an electromagnet that lifts that pawl to allow bidirectional capabilities. Looking at your photo, the guts are almost identical to the Dynas.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    4415
    If you look at the 5th picture of the 2nd post on this page you will see the Dyna tool changer. Dyna's is bidirectional. I suspect your is also.http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dyna_m...version-3.html

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