I got a new HURCO KMB1

Hello all,
I just brought home my new HURCO KMB1 mid 80's model. It has the cassette tape for loading the program.
I have started cleaning and repainting (Baby Blue) Love the color the machine looks to be really nice condition not used much.(pics to come)
What I would like to know is what would be the least expensive upgrade to be able to load from my cpu ? I do not have the cassette and do not know if they would even be around any more.
Or if I do a complete rework of the machine what can I use from the old equipment ie; motors drives etc.
I have been reading all of the builds going on and it seems to me that the existing motors should work good and I could even save the drives ?
So what would be the not necessarily the cheapest but I want to build a really good dependable machine that would be easy to work on if need be.
I do not want to go out and buy the kit that has all the stuff pre packaged plug and play (I dont want to spend that kind of money)
Thanks I will try to post some pics tomorrow.
One more question I need an encoder for the x axis and would like to know if there are replacement encoders available to replace the old one that was on it. The motors are Electro Craft E703's the encoder 82BZ-1000-503 is there a comparable new encoder that would work with the existing drives in the mill or do I need to replace with the same that was in it ?
This is the only thing holding me back from turning the mill on to test function.

I have been reading all the other builds and would like for the Gurus to tell me how and what they would do to build the best and badest Hurco KMB1 there is ? I have read The Jackals and Daves build as well as Bobs build and they all look and sound great but it seems they may have used differnt equipment if available or maybe not as cost prohibitive.
1 Drives
2 motors
acc
breakout bds.
etc.
Please make a list of what yall would use knowing what you know now.

Attachment 252000Here is an update with pics it seams no one is interested in my new machine ?
Attachment 251992[ATTACH=CONFIG]251994
I have been cleaning it up and repainting (looking good) I have been looking into what to do next as far as upgrading the electronics and I am still wanting advice. I would like to keep the DC servo's if feasable. I have been looking at drives breakout boards and VFD Drives the motor is 5hp I have pics of the insides if anyone would like to see those and I would like to know what some of the parts do as well.
More pics Attachment 251998
Attachment 252002

Congrats on your new machine. Replies sometimes take a few days, as not everyone checks this forum every day.

I didn't know any of the KMB1's had 5 hp spindle motors. Is it an NMTB -40 taper spindle?

Yes, you can find an encoder that meets your mechanical mounting reuirements, for example 1/4" shaft and screws or glued to motor, and electronic requirements. I didn't look it up, just a guess interpretation of the model number, 1000 counts per revolution, 5 signals a, a', b, b', and z or index.

Once you address the encoder, I would keep the servos and drives and look at Mesa Electronics for hardware interface to your axis drives and controls. I would go with LinuxCNC, but you could use Mach 3 as well.

There are of course lots of other hardware options to provide you that bridge from the PC and controls software to your machine components. It is most probable your servo drives are analog commanded and rely on the 'controller' side to respond to the error or position feedback from your encoders. That is why I recommended Mesa and the LinuxCNC approach. So when you start looking for an interface, look for hardware capable of outputting an analog command if you would like to retrain your drives.

Is your mill sitting on railroad tracks? Do you need that kind of production flexibility? How many miles to the next shop or warehouse??:rolleyes:

it is 5hp and has a kwick switch 200 I have mesa bookmarked and I also have a program a machinist friend gave me don't know what it is yet but he said it would do anything and run anything I would ever need.

We tried starting the machine today have some problems not sure what or where to start we did get a display on the screen and start checking voltages.

I have purchased encoders like the ones on my machine they and yes they are 1000 cnt.

What parts or components do I need to save and what needs to be pulled out ?
Maybe a dumb question but I am totally new to cnc

yes tracks right through the middle of the shop. We are in the process of pouring concrete in the shop have been on dirt for the last 2 years. Sometimes I get the cart before the horse but it always works out my machines are now sitting on 6" I beams so we can pour a section of concrete and then move the machine on to the floor Shop is 10k square feet (home shop) and I was waiting for concrete prices to come down (ha ha ha) well I will be biting the bullet and just pay the price in the next couple months.
However I do like my equipment to be able to roll out of the way if need be for larger projects and do have some narrow gage tracks I may utilize for that. Thanks for the idea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gcude

Congrats on your new machine. Replies sometimes take a few days, as not everyone checks this forum every day.

---

Thanks
I am hoping for some help I have read all the threads I could find but as I have said I am new to all of the cnc stuff and have several projects I would like to build one I have under construction is an 7'x16' plasma table almost ready for instalation of hardware for drives so hopefully after converting this mill I will have some experience.

Will this drive work for my Mill ?Attachment 252016Attachment 252018
Or are there better choices ?

10,000 square feet, i'm not sure that qualifies as a 'home' shop, WOW. Could very well understand waiting for good concrete and labor prices, or pour sections in building phases.

Do you have 3 phase power to your shop? If not, look for a 3 phase VFD/VSD at 1.73 to 2 times your motor requirement, or ~8 to 10 hp range. This derates the drive for single phase input. Some modern drives look for power on each of the 3 legs or alarms out and won't run. I believe Polyspede makes some affordable single phase VFD's in the 5 hp and up range. In the 3 hp and under there is a plethora of single phase drives, most of the big name brands make and market them.

TECO's are a great choice, especially in the affordability and quality category, or good bang for buck. Other brands to consider are Hitachi and Emerson. Not necessary, but Modbus capable drives can add some bells and whistles to your control. (Although Modbus implentation seems more common in the Mach 3 crowd than LinuxCNC).

Are you sure your Hurco doesn't already have a VFD? I'm not familiar with the KMB-1's specifically, but controls layout looks very similar to KM3's. Viewed from the front of the mill, the left cabinet is typically main power control, distribution, transformers, and sometimes VFD. Your pictures show some (or all?) of the transformers in a rear box and a grey box with the High Voltage warning. Have you opened that grey box up (with all power disconnected)? Or maybe someone with KMB-1 experience might know without opening. I suspect a transformer, power supply, or maybe a VFD.

Some like to yank everything and start all-over. In your case, if you plan and are able to retain your servo drives I think that approach just causes extra work. I would recommend leaving everything in the power and controller cabinet except the Hurco controller boards. The Hurco control boards are the mounted in a card rack at the bottom of the controls cabinet, right side of mill from front view. Underneath your servo drives. I would disconnect all the wiring to these boards and remove all power lines between it and the nearest terminal strip. If you encoder's terminate directly to the control cards, leave them intact until you decide on hardware interface. If your encoders route via a terminal strip before going to the controller, then optional to pull or leave wiring between control boards and terminal strip.

The relay board to the right and near the middle of height of the controls cabinet leave intact and in place until you decide on hardware interface. You will have to determine if the coil voltages can be handled directly by your hardware choice or if you'll need additional components in between or opt to replace all the relays for different coil voltage or solid state relays at hardware compatible control voltage. The relays will typically handle things like coolant pump, power to solenoids for pneumatics like spindle brake, etc.

With leaving some things in, you will have to do a little more wire tracing and more diligent about no loose ends, but definitely is manageable.

I would consider mounting the PC and interface where the old Hurco boards were. If you plan to keep the arm mounted control panel you would then need mouse, keyboard, and display cables long enough to run from the panel back to the cabinet. Or you could mount the computer and display all in the front control panel and than just run a long enough cable back to the hardware interface. What that hardware cable interface cable is will depend on which hardware you chose. You will also need to consider how much if any of the physical control buttons you would like to have on your front panel. Also consider if you want a jog wheel here or umbilical to a hand pendant.

Forgot to answer your question. If you do have 3 phase power the TECO you pictured will work. You will need to look up it's manual to see if it has built in feedback control capability or if it can be updated with another card or board, if ridgid tapping is your goal. Something the machine likely did not originally have. Floating taps are on option as well. Of course you would also need to look for space availabilty for mounting your spindle feedback, encoder or switch.

I have a 60hp rotary converter for my 3 phase power and after looking it uo the Teco does have built in feedback capability. I have added pics of the other cabinet contents I am not sure if this would be considered a VFD or not ?
I have added another pic of the incoming power supply and need to know which of the legs should have the 240 volt left middle or right hand side? Attachment 252146Attachment 252156
I am looking into the Viper drives I understand they should run the DC servos ?

Been working on the mill most all of a day or so trying to get it to run with no luck.Checking voltages and tracing down wires. It has been a learning experience in itself seeing where and what wire goes where.
I have came to the conclusion to go ahead and upgrade.
Here is what I am thinking but I would like some input from you guys.

1; I would like to keep the DC servos and encoders
2; I have been looking at the Viper 200F drives (24 volt dc)
3; Mesa 7i25 ?
4; 5 hp VFD not sure which one yet I have been watching eday to see what they are going for and looking at new as well
5; For the programing Linux ? BOB or Mach3 I am not sure about the Mach3 but it seems most beginners start there
6; I will try to reuse some of the existing stuff in my cabinet like the DC transformer contactors for certain functions etc.
I need some input I am ready to start purchasing my needs to get stared putting it back together again.
and would like to know what else I need to add to the list.

1; I would like to keep the DC servos and encoders
I think this is always a good start, everything is sized and mounted and get you down the road faster. DC power supply is already 'right-sized' too. Only caveat is they are likely 10 Vdc analog cards. Hardware choices if going Mach3/4 is lower. (Not too mention lifespan and differences between Mach3 and Mach4 and pug-ins for 4 is a bit of an unknown right now). LinuxCNC you will have a few options for hardware interface, Mesa, PicoSystems, and (new to me) General Mechatronics.

2; I have been looking at the Viper 200F drives (24 volt dc), Good choice and support if going Mach3 or 4(?), it is a Step/Dir command drive. Could use LinuxCNC, but somewhat defeats the capability within LinuxCNC of closing the loop back to the controller. May need to see if Hurco power supply will work or not, may need to reconfigure or replace.

3; Mesa 7i25 ? The 7I25 is likely too small for your servos. Likely the 7i40H (high power) will be better suited. I've never used, maybe someone can report. You might have to reconfigure or build a different power supply.

4; 5 hp VFD not sure which one yet I have been watching eday to see what they are going for and looking at new as well
I've never seen or used first hand, but I suspect that is the Hurco Parajust drive in the left or driver's side cabinet. Contact MartinCNC on how you can run this drive single phase for the spindle. However, popular opinion is to dump this finicky antique and get a newer drive. Probably the most expensive single component, if that matters.

5; For the programing Linux ? BOB or Mach3 I am not sure about the Mach3 but it seems most beginners start there
Many many people are well indoctrinated into use of MicroSoft Windows, this makes Mach3 a common and comfortable path. It is capable and low cost if you dread the Linux adventure.

6; I will try to reuse some of the existing stuff in my cabinet like the DC transformer contactors for certain functions etc.
I need some input I am ready to start purchasing my needs to get stared putting it back together again.
and would like to know what else I need to add to the list.[/QUOTE]
As mentioned above, if you change out the drives there is a very good chance you'll need to make some changes or replace the DC power supply. Also, depending on your hardware interface, you will have to see how straight forward it will 'plug' into your relays and solenoids due to voltage and amperage capability and I/O type. Additional conditioning boards or swapping out devices and adding or changing power supplies.

Thanks 123CNC for all of your input I have purchased the TECO VFD and installed in the cabinet have tried running the spindle to no avail as yet will have to study the manual on the drive some more (not as simple as it looked to wire it up and run the spindle)
I am still looking at all my options and looking at what others have done.
I have contacted Viper looking to use there drives and have not heard from them as yet but hope to sometime soon.
I have also been looking at the Electro Craft drives available on ebay it seems the MAX 430 would be the drive to run my servos but like other components these are obsolete as well.
Does anyone know anything about the MAX 430 drives ?

I contacted Mesa and they said there hardware will not work with Mach3 :(
So I have decided to go the Mach 3 route for now it seems to be the easiest to start. I will need a breakout board to to connect to my existing drives, any help or advice would greatly be appreciated
or do I need to go ahead and scrap all of the old equipment and start over if using Mach ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tfuqua63

I contacted Mesa and they said there hardware will not work with Mach3 :(
So I have decided to go the Mach 3 route for now it seems to be the easiest to start. I will need a breakout board to to connect to my existing drives, any help or advice would greatly be appreciated
or do I need to go ahead and scrap all of the old equipment and start over if using Mach ?

---

You can keep your drives and motors, just fewer hardware options in Mach 3. The CSMIO/IP-A can handle analog drives, there may be others, but none come to mind.

Of course you should be aware that for quite a few years now Mach 3 will soon(?) be dropped for Mach 4, an entirely new rewrite of Mach. Not to say there won't be public forum support of the old M3, just will not likely see anything new as far as plugins or new hardware.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 123CNC

You can keep your drives and motors, just fewer hardware options in Mach 3. The CSMIO/IP-A can handle analog drives, there may be others, but none come to mind.

Of course you should be aware that for quite a few years now Mach 3 will soon(?) be dropped for Mach 4, an entirely new rewrite of Mach. Not to say there won't be public forum support of the old M3, just will not likely see anything new as far as plugins or new hardware.

---

Ok thanks 123cnc if I install the CSMIO/IP-A would I be able to use something other than mach3 (or 4) ? Linux ?