9 Attachment(s)
MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
The truth about spindle motors and power and the things you don't want to know/hear.
Interestingly enough, many people buy these spindles under the assumption they are getting what they pay for and all I can say is they are getting something but far less than they think.
Let's examine some details about some of these motors, lets start by looking at the water-coolder ER20 3.0KW spindles.
First and foremost, they are not 100% efficient, testing has revealed them to be only about 71% to 72% efficient (I'll calculate based on the higher efficiency).
Second, 220V-3PH, 8A is not 3.0KW it's 1.76KW (do the math) and since the efficiency is 72% this equates so 1.2672KW, a far cry from 3.0KW.
Third, the stators are basket-wound which is easier and quicker to produce over the more efficient lap-wound stators and is how most china manufacturers wind for maximum profit.
The square body spindle motor being sold on ebay is another prime example of false advertising.
I have had many of these sent to me for warranty/repair under the assumption it is the one I produce and I can't stress enough that there is no way my parts will fit in the china spindle body.
These are using almost the same stator/rotor as the water-cooled ER20 China spindle motors most users buy except length is longer by 5mm giving a little more mass and effeciency is around 73%.
They specify input current as 8A, some do specify 10A and those burn up much faster.
My square body spindle is larger because I use a larger and longer stator/rotor that is lap-wound which has an efficiency of 92% to 94% (I'll calculate based on the lower efficiency), I rate them at 12A knowing it will out-perform the china brand by 200%.
The main reason for running under a reduced input current (and I can get away with it) is to increase life and reduce heat and running at 2.43KW (220 x 12 = 2640 x 0.92 = 2428.8) is effectively double that of the china spindles but they will operate at 14.8A without burning up providing 3.0KW of power (220 x 14.8 = 3256 x 0.92 = 2995.52).
We've all seen real spindle motors on large VMC's and milling machines.
These are not normal induction motors with encoders attached, these are true asynchronous servo spindle motors.
Low power ones (2.2KW) are about 94% efficient and the size is 140mm x 140mm x 500mm and weigh approximately 60lbs, larger ones like the 5.5KW are 208mm x 208mm x 680mm and weigh more than 100lbs.
The 2.2KW motor starts around $1,300.00USD plus shipping from china, better quality ones start at $2,100.00USD plus shipping still produced in china and for a US manufactured product starting at $6,000.00.
Like many, finding a proper powering soultion is not easy and I understand why everyone settles for the cheapest solution they can obtain and unfortunately these solutions are by no means acceptable.
I decided that a real solution is what I want and that it had to deliver what I need and not by false information.
I wanted a larger stator/rotor that what is used in the cheaper spindles and I want to belt drive a cartridge with 2HP minimum and the size has to be small enough that I can use it without fear of being under-powered wihtout adding a lot of weight and it had to be capable of 8,000RPM without using gears or pulleys to alter the upper RPM and the motor must be capable of positioning and indexing for for things like rigid taping.
It is my belief that this motor should have a retail price of less than $500.00USD however I couldn't find a factory making and selling such a motor so I decided to make my own.
Attached is a picture of my prototype 1.5KW 12,000RPM asyncrhonous servo spindle motor with 2500PPR encoder.
The specifications, 220V-3PH, 8.25A, 22mm output shaft, 86% efficient giving 1.56KW of power weighing in at only 14lbs.
Stator/Rotor details:
Size: Frame 56 (80mm or 83mm OD Stator)
Slot/Bar: 24 / 18
Winding details:
QZY-2/220 0.74mm bifilar wound / 18 turns / 4-poles / 3-phase
Phase current: 8.27A (2.18A no load)
Current Density 10.2A
R/Min: 12,000 (14,900 no load)
I had the stator and rotor plates laser cut from some 35W270 laminate material, there are companies that will make the rotors and stators for you of you can buy the plates and assemble it yourself for more savings.
I will tell you that it took me about 6 hours to wind 3 stators so if your planning on doing it make sure you have enough time as it's not something you want to start and stop and start again.
I made a mould to hold the rotor lamenents so I could pour meltated aluminum to make the rotor and this process was pretty easy and I used scrap T6 aluminum from a job we were running for a customer (I used a table saw to make sand sized chips) and I basically metled the aluminum in the steel mould.
The front hearing is hard mounted to prevent excesive end-play from damaging the encoder and the rear bearing is wave-spring loaded to maintain constant preload.
The body was made from 3.5i x 3.5in aluminu stock, machined externally for shape and bored 83mm ID.
The rear bearing holder is aluminum, the front hearing holder is steel.
The encoder cap is aluminum (it could have been plastic) and the fan holder was sheet metal cut like a plus bent and tig'd with an ID of 94mm x 94mm
The cooling fan is 220V single-phase 43CFM 92mm x 92mm fan (called a 90mm fan) with a washable filter.
This is the perfect upgrade motor for a bench mill/ATC conversion and outperforms the DC motor that comes on most bench mills like the SEIG X3.
The prototypes were made entirely by hand and not currently in production by any company which is a shame as it is my belief that a motor like this is needed.
I did produce a prototype running at 24,000RPM (I have a couple of spare rotors/stators already wound) however, the encoder seems to drop off when RPM exceeds 18,000RPM and an encoder capable of higher RPM costs about $300.00 making it uneconomical.
I've provided all of the technical information and pictures that should allow you to make your own.
If you need help making one you can contact me directly as it is unlikely I will respond to PM as I don't frequent here much any more but thought that sharing this information was beneficial to the hobby community.
-- Dale
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
I have had a couple of phone calls now and it seems I have left our some information.
If you are a novice motor builder I recommend you purchase a stator and rotor instead of making them so you only have to worry about winding.
I made a jig out of plywood and popsicle stixs to wrap the wire around and tie it off with stator cord (you can purchase from a local motor repair shop), a hard nylon/plastic auto-body spatula blade cut down can be used to help insert the windings in the slots without damaging the wires and yes, don't forget to buy some stator slot insulation strips (mylar sheet type over hard type is preferred).
The white wire insulation sleave and cord can be shrunk and hardened in a toaster oven (250deg for 15 minutes), alternately you can dip it in shellac and bake it if you want an explosion proof type stator winding.
If you have money and don't care about the costs, you can give the winding informaiton to a repair shop and have them wind it for you and they should be able to wind a stator for about $350.00
A while back I purchased a decent VFD that has four programable orient positions to use for motor testing and recently negotiated a better purchase price at a cost of less than $500.00 shipped to me in USA as an OEM brand as I am now replacing my other VFD's with this one.
While I show two acceptable encoders in the provided pictures that can be purchased and are inexpensive, I should mention that the actual encoders I used are part number R38T-8G05L-2500BM-1M in motor #1 and TS5214-N6500 (Tamagwa OIH48-2500P8-L6-5V) in motor #2 and #3 and D48T-8G05L-2500BM/4P-0 3M-A in motor #4.
These are all line driver A/B/Z encoders and all have the same general electrical characteristics but with different mounting configurations so I could determine which was the easiest to work with, the TS5214-N6500 and D48T-8G05L-2500BM/4P-0.3M are crosses of each other (different manufacturers) but the Tamagawa was a better built product so I would recommend Tamagawa encoders over other brands.
Setup was relatively easy, I turned the encoder until the VFD displayed 0, I turned the shaft until the keyway was at the 12:00 position, I attached the encoder then adjusted it so it is at 0 when the keyway is at the 12:00 position, this gave a 0 position alignment accuracy of 0.00027deg at the 12:00 position, this is not encoder accuracy, just 12:00 position equals 0deg accuracy making installation and spindle alignment easier to deal with when I install and remove the motor I wont have to change my orient settings.
KMMP-USA is a company you can buy rotors and stators from, I've used them in the past on other motor builds but in this particular build I went with my own which is why I provided the plate drawings in case someone wants to duplicate it exactly.
Size is 80mm OD stator
Stator slots is 24
Rotor bars is 18 (19, 20 or 21) (20 gave the best high end torque while 18 gave the best low end torque, 21 gave the least harmonic distortion but efficiency was only 69% and any power loss is unacceptable in my opinion and 19 had electrical oscillation at 1490RPM, 2980RPM, 4470RPM, 5960RPM etc... that prevent use)
Length of stator/rotor plates is 96mm
Height of aluminum on end rotor is 8mm thickness (can have blades on it for internal air circulation at your discretion)
Plate material is is 35W270 or other suitable material that will work at up to 600Hz (you only run at 400Hz but need the higher 600Hz material to reduce loss at 400Hz operation frequency).
I attached is a picture of the motor body drawing showing a generic design to the first post that I started with and adjusted the body length to fit the shafts I made, the front bearing is 6005-2RS and securely mounted in the front plate, the rear bearing is 6203-2RS (or 6003-2RS, I went with this one) and is a slip fit in the rear plate and a wave spring applies constant preload and allows for expansion if temperature rise makes things grow.
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Very interesting! Do you have any video of the finished project/product? Or any review since completion?
Awesome build!
Chris
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lcvette
Very interesting! Do you have any video of the finished project/product?
I posted pictures of the finished product which includes a disassembled motor and these are in the first post.
I could take a video of the machine which the motor is installed in but since you can't see the motor it's kinda pointless to make the video.
I don't have the time to remove all the shielding so you can see the motor just to take a video and any request for such will be ignored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lcvette
Or any review since completion?
Awesome build!
Chris
Who would review a motor I made for myself???
The small few who have purchased a stator/rotor set from me have built their own motors and I have no desire to view or review their designs.
I don't have any more I can sell so contacting me to get one is no longer an option as I wont buy and run off a small roll of 35W270 just so you can buy one set as you can't buy a 77 foot length (274 x 0.35 = 95.899mm stack height and 85mm x 274 = 23290mm length / 25.4 = 916.93 inches / 12 = 76.41 feet) when it comes in a 85mm x 0.35mm x 500 foot (small) roll (enough to make 6 sets).
The general purpose of the post was to show that settling for some DC treadmill motor from ebay while you believe is cost effective and gives you the results you want is far from reality and that with some patience you can produce a much better solution that gives you exactly what you want/need.
Tearing apart an 220V 3-PH ER16 or ER20 spindle motor to make a high RPM motor from the stator/rotor set is possible and I probably have several new 24k stator/rotor sets in a box somewhere but unless you're shelling out for a high RPM encoder it's basically nothing more that a high-speed VFD class motor.
Rewinding those 220V 3-PH ER16 or ER20 spindle motor stators for 4-pole is possible but you better be able to figure out the winding details based on the slots/bars of the stator/rotor set you have and if your rotor doesn't have exposed aluminum it's almost impossible to figure out how many bars it has.
Building it yourself is a slow process but time has little meaning to the DIYer and usually something they have lots of.
The wires I wound and installed took about 6 hours per stator (this is why you need patience), the press plates to pin the stator plates together took about 1 hour to make, the mold for the rotor took about 3 hours to make, clay to make the end caps, wax to make the ring voids in the clay, kiln-dried, 2.5in x 2.5in x 4in length square stock bored to tightly accept the rotor plates, some M8 SHCS and two 1/4in plates so you don't break the clay ends when you bolt it together and a M8 SHCS x 180mm length with nut for the center to ensure sealing, poor the aluminum, let it cool, disassemble and you have a molded rotor ready for mounting, finishing and assembly.
How you design the appearance of your motor is entirely up to you, if you don't want to spend the time DIYing your own motor then either buy a suitable motor or settle for something in your budget,
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
I was actually more interested in the performance of the motor over pictures of its appearance. Do you have video of it working on the machine putting it through its paces? I know you mentioned indexing and rigid tapping being in your list of criteria. I thought that was very interesting. If you do have video I would be interested in seeing it, however I get the impression you may have interpreted my reply as offensive which it was not meant to be that way. I think it is great that you built your own motor and have done so much research and testing, inspiring really. I agree with you, I have gone through many motors in an attempt to find a good solution so I truly understand where your motivation comes from.
I have tried treadmill motors (destroyed brushes and arced in short order).
I went through two stock motors that both burned up and didn't supply the rpm range I was looking for anyway.
I currently have a Chinese 2.2kw BLDC and driver. Admittedly it is better than anything I have used to date but it still has its issues. I can tell it is no where near its advertised power rating. It's failure to maintain speed/torque from no load to cutting load is very undesirable.
I did a full demonstration of it going through all normal operations I would likely use and you can hear it's recovery issues with a .201" drill bit in a mills peck cycle.
First video of 5 here:
G0704 2200w BLDC, Z axis stepper mount, part 1 - YouTube
So in my research for other alternatives I ran across your thread. I am just curious of the actual performance of the motor you built for comparison purposes. I don't know if building one would even be in my wheel house or not, a bit intimidating as I have never done it before, but I am curious all the same.
If you do have video it would be very much appreciated and if not and you feel it is to much of a PITA, then I understand.
Thanks,
Chris
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lcvette
I was actually more interested in the performance of the motor over pictures of its appearance. Do you have video of it working on the machine putting it through its paces? I know you mentioned indexing and rigid tapping being in your list of criteria. I thought that was very interesting. If you do have video I would be interested in seeing it, however I get the impression you may have interpreted my reply as offensive which it was not meant to be that way. I think it is great that you built your own motor and have done so much research and testing, inspiring really. I agree with you, I have gone through many motors in an attempt to find a good solution so I truly understand where your motivation comes from.
I have tried treadmill motors (destroyed brushes and arced in short order).
I went through two stock motors that both burned up and didn't supply the rpm range I was looking for anyway.
I currently have a Chinese 2.2kw BLDC and driver. Admittedly it is better than anything I have used to date but it still has its issues. I can tell it is no where near its advertised power rating. It's failure to maintain speed/torque from no load to cutting load is very undesirable.
I did a full demonstration of it going through all normal operations I would likely use and you can hear it's recovery issues with a .201" drill bit in a mills peck cycle.
First video of 5 here:
G0704 2200w BLDC, Z axis stepper mount, part 1 - YouTube
So in my research for other alternatives I ran across your thread. I am just curious of the actual performance of the motor you built for comparison purposes. I don't know if building one would even be in my wheel house or not, a bit intimidating as I have never done it before, but I am curious all the same.
If you do have video it would be very much appreciated and if not and you feel it is to much of a PITA, then I understand.
Thanks,
Chris
I'm not upset or angry about your message or anything you referenced, I'm annoyed because you keep asking for a video like I'm going to run out and make one and I have no time or interest in making one as it serves no real purpose, otherwise I would have attached one to the first post along with the pictures.
Sorry, I have no interest in watching a video of your motor/machine operating.
The purpose of the thread was to show that a better motor solution is possible for the DIY'er willing to do the work and most are.
I have no performance issues with my motor, it is constant torque, S1 rated and runs up to 15,000RPM (at 600Hz) and maintains this RPM at 0.1% due to the encoder feedback.
Expecting to achieve my exact results are way beyond the typical DIY'ers capabilities without the correct resources so any video of a motor I have made would not be a good test case as I have access to a high-precision machine shop, a foundry, a motor repair shop to do my baking and shaft balancing (not baking in my kitchen because I don't have a week to waste doing the shellacking).
Doing it in your kitchen oven requires time over the course of a week to dry and harden the shellack, a dip in shellack, a 45mins bake at 250deg, cooling, dipping and baking again until 5 coats have been applied, I'd rather do it all in 30mins in a 350deg updraft oven using a gel-varnish.
Despite popular belief, BLDC motors are not constant torque, speed is altered by reducing voltage (or voltage on/off time) which affects current and torque, with no feedback, RPM stability is a fantasy as you've experienced using your BLDC motor.
A BLDC rated at 2.2KW, 180VDC is roughly 12A, seeing that they are about 90% to 94% electrically efficient (well assume an average of 92%) but due to PM saturation there is a power loss of about 15% to 25% so we'll assume 20% average, this equates to 2.2 x 0.92 = 2.024 x 0.8 = 1.6192 assuming that the input power is 2.2KW check the rating on the motor, the voltage and current will tell you what the input power is and the power losses here are not true losses, they are transmitted in heat which is why BLDC motors run so hot.
Of course they make high efficiency BLDC motors but a couple we tested on a motor dyno we concluded they were so over-rated it was hard not to laugh when the specifications claimed 2HP and we saw only 1.27HP before stalling.
My own personal design is based on more than a simple motor need because I have a much broader understanding of motor details, motor specifications and what is needed for a specific application.
I can perform orientation to 4 pre-programmed positions, indexing to any position so I can do things most only dream of including indexing hole threading for bolt head alignment.
Take for example a circular bolt pattern, I can index the + in phillips head so they are orbitally indexed or fixed indexed, what this means is simple, I drill and tap 60 holes in a circular bolt pattern, if you hide all but one viewable head, and rotate it at 60 RPM using a fluorescent light, with orbital indexing it would appear that the phillips heads are stationary and if I used fixed indexing the phillips head would appear to be turning.
The way in which a stator is wound plays an integral role in how it performs, a lap-wound stator offers a better torque curve over a basket-wound and is the main reason this winding type is used in asynchronous servo spindle motors.
Not all AC induction motors can be asynchronous servo spindle motors.
All asynchronous servo spindle motors are AC induction motors.
Not all 3-phase AC induction motors are lap-wound, 95% of them are basket-wound, for example, only Baldor makes an off-the-shelf 3-PH general purpose pump motor in a cast-iron body that is lap-wound and they use 50W350 plate material in this motor so operation at 240Hz is possible, above this and torque drops off quickly until almost nonexistent, not plugging Baldor motors, only showing that they are one of a few who make a suitable motor if medium RPM is acceptable if you can handle the mediocre performance but IMO, they are way over-priced for what you get.
Most AC induction motors use a 6-step, non-mixed coil winding pattern (only 1 coil occupies a slot) and target a specific frequency (usually 50Hz/60Hz) where as asynchronous servo spindle motors use a 6-step, mixed coil winding pattern (all 3 coil windings occupy the same slot in N/S/S or S/N/N configuration) with a target frequency range of 0Hz (in reality 5Hz) to 400Hz and the reason I provided the winding details.
If you manage to make a rotor and stator yourself you can get exactly what you need/want and performance issues aren't a concern if you wind it correctly.
If you don't want to wind it yourself I'm sure you could get a motor repair shop to wind it for you for about $350.00 (last time I checked).
Making one in a motor production shop is not an option due to the costs involved when you're looking at a small quantity.
Most motor factories in china want 500 sets minimum, in the US this was more like 5,000 or 10,000 sets minimum depending on who you talk to.
I have someone interested in 500 sets of stators and rotors at a cost of $125.00 wound plus shipping (about $1,600.00 by boat) and no, you wont be able to buy one from him.
If you're in the US I'm sure I could talk the factory into bumping the count by 5 or 10 sets as spares without incurring china to USA shipping charges, not worth pursuing for 1 set.
Once the deal is solidified early next week I wont be able to delay waiting for a response from you, shipping once in the US would be about $18.00 for a USPS large flat-rate box which all 5 sets should fit in.
SPECS are, 220V, 3-PH, 10A, 10,000RPM @400Hz, 2.2KW (3HP) input power, 1.584KW (2.11HP) output power, actual measured output was 1.492KW (1.99HP) on a sample so I know they are within their rated specification.
If you're not in the US then I'll pass as I'm not interested in the headaches of dealing with international shipping.
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
No thanks, honestly, it sounds like a complete scam to me, no proof, no video, just read my page long response believe what I say and give me a around a grand? You've got to be kidding me!
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dwalsh62
The purpose of the thread was to show that a better motor solution is possible for the DIY'er willing to do the work and most are.
Expecting to achieve my exact results are way beyond the typical DIY'ers capabilities without the correct resources so any video of a motor I have made would not be a good test case as I have access to a high-precision machine shop, a foundry, a motor repair shop to do my baking and shaft balancing (not baking in my kitchen because I don't have a week to waste doing the shellacking).
Doing it in your kitchen oven requires time over the course of a week to dry and harden the shellack, a dip in shellack, a 45mins bake at 250deg, cooling, dipping and baking again until 5 coats have been applied, I'd rather do it all in 30mins in a 350deg updraft oven using a gel-varnish.
Despite popular belief, BLDC motors are not constant torque, speed is altered by reducing voltage (or voltage on/off time) which affects current and torque, with no feedback, RPM stability is a fantasy as you've experienced using your BLDC motor.
What an unbelievably demeaning post / thread this is! First line you say its possible for a DIY'er, then the every next you say its way beyond the DIY'ers capabilities!
For someone who has no intention of producing anymore you seem to have done an awful lot of production and transportation research. Live long and prosper in your self centred world!
1 Attachment(s)
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lcvette
No thanks, honestly, it sounds like a complete scam to me, no proof, no video, just read my page long response believe what I say and give me a around a grand? You've got to be kidding me!
How can I be scamming you???
Oh I get it now, you are one of those users here who likes to suggest and imply someone is dishonest because you believe no one likes to help people for free therefore I must be dishonest.
I have been around here for quite some time and no one here can say I have cheated them and offer any proof because non exists.
You're suggesting that the pictures in the first post are insufficient proof because no video accompanies it and this is pure nonsense.
Unlike you, I have produced and sold several different spindle motors, some in quantities of a several hundred, one being a 3.0KW air-cooled ER20 router spindle motor and some people from here have bought one or two.
For those who have bought the china air-cooled 3.0KW router spindle and then later sent it to me for warranty, I don't feel sorry for them when I return it at their expense, my stator doesn't fit the china body and I wont warranty a product that I didn't produce and anyone expecting me too needs to have their head examined.
Yes you can search here about it, china copied it about 6 months after I started selling it and the china copy is so over rated and undersized that it amazes me to see that people believe a 3.0KW spindle is 220V, 8A, 18,000RPM @300Hz when the output power is 69% of the input power based on the stator/rotor (78mm OD) which means it's really only 1.21KW output where mine being physically larger is 3.0KW based on the following specifications 220V, 18.4A, 24,000RPM @400Hz but I can't compete with the china price as they sell it with a VFD for less than I can produce mine for and of course the majority of buyers opt for the cheaper unit.
I've attached a picture of another motor I currently produce, it's not a toy weighing in at 60lbs and strictly for industrial use, if you have to ask the price then it's too expensive for you.
In a nut-shell, I would say that I have some knowledge and experience in the motor field which makes me credible and if you had checked a little harder you would have figured this out on your own.
If you want a video of any motor I can create just to see that I am not a liar, I can whip together a couple of different sizes of motors in a couple of weeks, connect them to a VFD and show you videos of them working but if I have to make a motor that you can build and install it in a machine to take a video so you can see it in action then that isn't going to happen as I wont tear down a production machine just to satisfy your childish curiosity for a video of a project that I now believe you will never take on.
I'll make you this offer, you want a video of a spindle motor you can easily produce as all information and technical drawings will be provided, send me a machine and I'll jump right on it otherwise I suggest you build your own motor and make your own video.
The motor in use is 16,000RPM @600Hz, 2.83KW (3.75HP) input power, 2.2KW (3HP) output power, 1.85in longer with a total weight of 21lbs.
Why do you have such a hard time accepting that the motor I am currently using is superior to the original design so what benefit would a video of it be if you could never build this specific motor due to the lack of technical informaiton???
I say you wont be able to build the current motor because the current motor I am using I have altered the wire size, the windings, the plate material, the plate pattern and dimensions, the rotor skew, the air-gap, the maximum frequency and this information is not being passed on nor do I have any intentions of giving this information to anybody at a later time.
The information in the first post is provided free of charge, I provide the drawings for the stator and rotor plates so you can make your own by any method at your disposal, I provide the wire size and winding information, have provided pictures of the motor showing assembled and unassembled which should be enough to inspire you to create your own and you can verify the information using a third party to confirm the information is valid and correct and if someone needs some assistance with their build I would be more than happy to help them with their project as long as I don't have to do any of their work.
I'm not demanding you buy anything and I could care less if you bought the stator and rotor sets or you made them yourself, I make nothing either way, the offer given was to allow you to obtain some stators and rotors in a small quantity that the factory wouldn't object to but it seems you lack the knowledge or common sense to know a good deal when it is presented to you which was preceded by your implication that I am scamming you.
I can't control the quantity the factory will produce and I wouldn't waste the time trying to get 1 extra set and if you can't understand the logic behind this then you clearly have more serious issues that you should be addressing.
Thanks to William H ( another user here / username with-held), he opted to purchase the 5 sets so the offer for 5 sets is no longer extended to you.
I do have the original 2HP output power motor with a 2500ppr encoder shown in the first post, I could put it on the dyno, run tests in constant velocity and constant torque modes proving it delivers the 2HP and I'd sell it to you for $500.00 which is about what I have tied up in it but since you believe I am scamming you, making such an offer would be an insult to myself and a waste of my time so I wont, instead I'll keep it on a shelf for a rainy-day project.
I advise you to find a factory that makes rotors and stators and have them make and wind a set for you based on your required specifications, you can even use the pictures in the first post as reference material, I wont object.
Basically it boils down to this, if you want to make your own motor then figure out your requirements, do the design work and make it, once you make the rotor and stator the battle is half won but don't bother me with your lack of ability to do your own research to figure out what you need to do, google is your friend, I'm not and I've wasted enough of my time trying to help you when you clearly can't be helped.
Re: MOTOR Solution, you can make it, proof provided
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
What an unbelievably demeaning post / thread this is! First line you say its possible for a DIY'er, then the every next you say its way beyond the DIY'ers capabilities!
For someone who has no intention of producing anymore you seem to have done an awful lot of production and transportation research. Live long and prosper in your self centred world!
Oh great, another clueless wonder who needs an in-depth explanation.
I'm not producing anything, I sourced a factory, negotiated the terms and looked into the shipping for someone who is interested in buying the stators and rotors in bulk so how does this relate to me producing more???
You can achieve similar results baking in your kitchen oven if you have plenty of time to work on your project, for me when I want/need a motor I don't have this kind of time but I have access to professional equipment which drastically reduces these times, something most DIY'ers don't have.
If your wife does pottery and she has a kiln then baking in the kiln would be a better option than the kitchen oven, do you run out and buy a kiln just to make a motor, hell no, you use what you have access to.
Baking is not required it is preferred, you can tie off with stator cord or, you can use a special tyvek type tape and wrap it then take a heat-gun to it to melt, shrink and harden it.
Making a shaft without a lathe or access to one rules out most DIY'ers which puts it beyond their capabilities, basically those with machines or access to them can make their own motors.
Laser cutting the plates is an inexpensive alternative when doing 1 or 2 sets, making a die gives better results but harder to do for the DIY'er.
The information provided in the first post allows someone with access to some equipment to produce this motor as all it's details are provided, larger or smaller size, higher frequency, lower frequency, different base RPM (number of poles), more power, less power, these would have to be known before you could alter the motor because change one and others change.
It appears that most DIY'res lack the skills necessary to figure out motor details and this observation is based on the lack of available DIY articles on motor building.
Does this mean they can't do it, no, it only means they're afraid to try because they don't have the information.
I made the motor in the first post and used it for several months before realizing I needed more power and higher RPM.
With the exception of baking, the motor in the first post was produced in my spare time using a manual lathe and a knee-mill and 1018 for the shaft.
I tempered the shaft, i ground the bearing journals (things most DIY'ers wont do) because I can, black zinc'ed the front bearing retainer and black anodized all the aluminum (things most DIY'ers wouldn't do) but I could have just as easily used 4140HT for the shaft and spray-painted everything black (something a DIY'er would do) and would have had an acceptable appearance.
