Thinking bout changing from water soluble oil to regular (Talk me out of it.)

I'm thinking about changing my cooling fluid from water soluble oil to regular oil. I've been using Rustlik w/o problems, no rancidity even after one year (I have an air supply bubbling through it 24/7). I'm just tired of having to wipe everything down at the end of the day, getting it all dry, then having to coat the table and vice with regular oil. I get very little time in the shop and the clean up takes a good portion of that time. Also, I sometimes have the vice mounted for extended periods and on removing it there will be a lot of surface rust to deal with.

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time. I know water soluble is cheaper but that's not an issue. My greatest concern is safety. I remember years ago running kerosene for some Al work. It worked great, beautiful surface finish, but produced a mist of kerosene that so much looked like a fuel-air bomb. This time I'm not planning on kero, but would be using cutting fluid formulated for the task. Am I worrying about a nonexistent problem?

Thanks

I use that stuff Tormach sells, Premier 600, primarily 1:20 in a Fog Buster.

I only ever wipe off the vise day to day and leave everything else to dry. I have recently moved to using aluminum baking sheets on either side of the vise to collect the bulk of the chips and make cleaning up much easier, but before that I never had any problems. I have yet to see rust on fixtures or the table.

The baking sheets are standard 1/2 size. 18x13". They fit rather well on either side of the Tormach 5" vise.

But this could be because I use Boshield T9 on everything when I do clean. And lots of it.

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Originally Posted by JohnToner

I'm thinking about changing my cooling fluid from water soluble oil to regular oil. I've been using Rustlik w/o problems, no rancidity even after one year (I have an air supply bubbling through it 24/7). I'm just tired of having to wipe everything down at the end of the day, getting it all dry, then having to coat the table and vice with regular oil. I get very little time in the shop and the clean up takes a good portion of that time. Also, I sometimes have the vice mounted for extended periods and on removing it there will be a lot of surface rust to deal with.

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time. I know water soluble is cheaper but that's not an issue. My greatest concern is safety. I remember years ago running kerosene for some Al work. It worked great, beautiful surface finish, but produced a mist of kerosene that so much looked like a fuel-air bomb. This time I'm not planning on kero, but would be using cutting fluid formulated for the task. Am I worrying about a nonexistent problem?

Thanks

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I have been thinking along the same lines John, I was thinking about Stoddard solvent - (no stink kerosene) with some sort of oil mixed with it, the only drawback i see is that it wont take the heat out as quickly as water based coolant, and would probably eat up the shower hose oil line to the flood system.

I dont like the staining or the rust either, and the rust under the vise. On my lathe I ran Ridgid cutting oil in the sump on it for 30 plus years and it worked fine, I used to cut it with Stoddard solvent to thin it out a bit. I ran 90 percent stainless steel though on it.

It would eliminate the tramp oil problem as it would all mix well, I dont know about evaporation being a problem though, at work we had a solvent tank parts washer and evaporation wasnt ever a problem with it that I can recall. I was going to run it thru the flood system so "misting" shouldnt be a problem.

Just thinking out loud here, glad to see someone considering the same alternative......

Our resident machinist at the plant would consider breaking your arm if you tried to put a water based coolant in his machines, he just didnt like it period, I guess because it was water based.

I do small text engraving with kerosene/ wd 40 mix in a spray bottle, and it seems to work fine for that.


edit: I did get a lot of smoke at times on the lathe hogging stainless steel though. I guess there is one way to find out if it works- try it ha!

Mike, thanks, I'm not misting, I use generous flooding, and evaporation shouldn't be a major issue with oil. At this moment I'm running 6061 but I also do a lot of 303 and sometimes just mild steel. I don't want to be changing coolants with each material. If you think Ridgid would work with 6061, I should be good to go. If I could cut it with #2 diesel that would be even better. I believe #2 is pretty much kerosene with a lot of stink. The stink isn't an issue for me and #2 is approx $4.00/gal here in So Cal. And I totally agree with your resident machinist.

White spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a good read on mineral spirits, stoddard solvent etc.

I have a 5 gallon can of kerosene but it does stink thats for sure, I think the #2 diesel it would work fine if smell isnt an issue. The biggest issue I had was the smoke and throwing a lot of it away on the chips etc.

Ridgid oil, I used on my pipe machine, really good threading oil.

Stoddard solvent is basically kerosene without the stink, it goes over that in the link above......

I also clean and dry my machine after use as I just dont like the water based coolant on a machined surface......

I've been using Rustlick WS5050 for about 6 months, and I virtually never wipe down the machine, and I've never thought about coating it in oil. Most nights, I don't do anything - just turn the machine off and go home. Never a spot of rust. I think you're over-thinking this....

Regards,
Ray L.

Ray, on the rare occasions that I can run two days in a row, I don't seem to have a problem. I can just walk away w/o cleaning and all is good the next day. However because of my work schedule, I usually have to wait a week between runs and that is when I have a problem. Another factor is that my setup is in a garage with no door, its open wide enough for two American cars to pass through. The rust I see is definitely real and going to mineral oil seems like a viable option, but I'm totally open to suggestions. As for the Rustlik I'm using, I don't know the product number. I'll check tomorrow (I'm only at the shop on Mondays). One question, what is your dilution ratio? I use whatever is on the label. It gives a range and I shoot for the mid-point.

Thanks,

John,

If you're operating in a garage where the doors will be opened on cold, damp mornings, I'm afraid you're likely too have problems no matter what you use.

I use an optical refractometer to mix the coolant, and aim for a reading around Brix 4.0, or a bit less. I believe that us about 10:1.

Regards,
Ray L.

If you plan on using oil, be ready for a ton of smoke. Whatever you cut, it's gonna smoke.

Its not so much that the door's open, it's more like there is no door.

Steve, I know, I've used oil in the past on my Lagun, but chickened out because it was looking like a fuel-air bomb. I always keep extinguishers at hand, and I've never heard of anybody having problems, but if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck. I know you've been making chips for a good spell. The smoke shouldn't be a problem since I only have three walls and it's almost 700 sq. ft. whereas my Lagun was inside an 8x12 shack. Hopefully sometime next year I can add a door to the garage but they don't really seal all that tightly.

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Originally Posted by JohnToner

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time.

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I have run soluble oil flood coolant with my Tormach for over five years and had no rust issues. My Tormach is in an unheated shop where outside temperature ranges from a low of 20*F in winter to 80*F in summer. BTW This morning it is in the 40s and today is going to be perfect… dry, clear in the mid 60s. I typically have the door open that is right next to the Tormach when working in my shop as I certainly will today. I save a lot of time by not thinking about flood cooling alternatives because rust is not an issue for me. YMMV

Don

@ Don....
I spent a couple of years running a shop in Fawnskin. It was a garage that backed up to a campground, and weather permitting I had the door wide open to the outside.
The boss would come down the the shop in the afternoon and require that we play frisbee for a 1/2 hour. Grueling, but we got thru it, usually in time to go to lunch.
Wasn't much of a shop to speak of, but we put out a good product, and had a lot of fun doing it.

I still miss that view out of the back of the shop.

Over the short time I have been reading about different guys experiences with the coolant staining/rusting problems, it brings to mind when I first got the machine that there was a slight secondary voltage ranging from 5 volts to 20 volts on the machine between the computer and the machine frame, plugging in the thumb drive produced a small spark at times is how i discovered it.

I am wondering if that small voltage may be producing an electrolisis condition causing this problem? I use a separate usb cable now for the thumbdrive that isnt grounded to the machine frame (easier to get to). Maybe just some grounding straps would solve the problem and a good earth ground as well, which I never got around to doing?

There is a 230 volt supply to the machine as well as a separate 120 volt supply, I never really understood the reason for this? I think the differential between the two supplies is possibly what is causing this small voltage, as the grounding points are several feet from the machine..

I also got a small voltage reading from the table to the machine base, It would vary from 5 to 20 volts as well. I dont know how this would relate to the chips on the table to the table though, but I have seen strange things happen in electrical circuits that dont have proper grounding.........

food for thought maybe or too much free time again ha! Maybe I need to get to grounding the machine and talking less ha!

Maybe your rust problem is the coolant you are using. I have been using Swisslube Blazocut 2000 Universal for 2 1/2 years in my PCNC 1100 and close to 15 years in machines before that and I have NEVER had a rust issue.

When I am finished at the end of the day, I don't clean the table off. I let the chips sit so the coolant can drain back into the tank, then I will vacuum them up in the morning.

I have "NEVER" had a rust issue doing it that way.

You might think of bolting on a sacrificial zinc anode in addition to the ground strap. BoatUS – BoatTech – Sacrificial Zincs by Don Casey

Don

BTW Electrolysis ate the aluminum heads on two model 2002 Beemers before I added a substantial ground strap between the head and cast iron block.

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Originally Posted by fizzissist

@ Don....
I spent a couple of years running a shop in Fawnskin. It was a garage that backed up to a campground, and weather permitting I had the door wide open to the outside.
The boss would come down the the shop in the afternoon and require that we play frisbee for a 1/2 hour. Grueling, but we got thru it, usually in time to go to lunch.
Wasn't much of a shop to speak of, but we put out a good product, and had a lot of fun doing it.

I still miss that view out of the back of the shop.

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Yeah I like Fawnskin; always go north shore when traveling up to Big Bear.

Don

Don, what coolant are you using and would it be appropriate for 6061, 303, and mild steel?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Don Clement

You might think of bolting on a sacrificial zinc anode in addition to the ground strap. BoatUS – BoatTech – Sacrificial Zincs by Don Casey

Don

BTW Electrolysis ate the aluminum heads on two model 2002 Beemers before I added a substantial ground strap between the head and cast iron block.

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Right Don, I havent had much of a problem of late with rust or what I "think" may be rust. I just checked the residual voltages again just now and it is running no more than 10 uv, this varies as well on the dc scale I have changed the 120 volt supply around some, I now have a battery backup supply on the computer now, maybe thats the difference possibly, it was enough voltage that it could be felt in the past, and produce a small spark so I would think it would have been more than a few micro volts to do that.

I guess I need to get a chunk of zinc and bolt it to the table? I am not sure what to connect it to, the salt water anodes bolted to the side of the engine on outboard motors, any thoughts on this appreciated.

I like the heat transfer abilities of the water based coolant and no smoke but I dont like the rust / staining.

I use a soluble oil now that works pretty well, the premier 600 that I got with the machine didnt work so well in this area.

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Originally Posted by JohnToner

Don, what coolant are you using and would it be appropriate for 6061, 303, and mild steel?

Thanks

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I use a 10% solution Valcool VP650 as measured with a refractometer and do mostly 6061.

Don