Buying a PCNC 1100 Series 3 - Suggestions on My List

Ok, looks like I'm going to take the plunge and buy a full setup. Hobby/small job shop work. I fully understand the limitations to this machine. I previously owned a Fadal VMC15 however when I shut my shop down I could not fit the Fadal in my garage or basement. As I stated in my other post, some guys buy fast cars and bass boats, well, tinkering on a CNC is my hobby.

Take a look at my list and add in any suggestions on items I may have looked past (about the only thing I left off was the ATC and enclosure). I am looking at getting the Duality Lathe from someone else.

30297 - PCNC 1100 Deluxe Machine Stand (1)
Subtotal: $1,644.50

30286 - Machine Arm (2)
Subtotal: $590.00

34437 - Cable Kit for Tormach PCNC 1100 / PCNC 770 (1)
Subtotal: $39.95

30555 - Tool Tray for Machine Arm (1)
Subtotal: $57.70

31446 - Lifting Bar (1)
Subtotal: $93.21

31415 - 5C Collet Fixture for 8" Rotary Table (1)
Subtotal: $185.35

30252 - 15 Piece 5C Collet Set (1)
Subtotal: $69.95

30233 - TTS-MT3 Collet & Drawbolt (1)
Subtotal: $29.76

34917 - Tormach Machine Controller w/Mach3 (1)
Subtotal: $715.00

30616 - Shuttle Jog Controller (1)
Subtotal: $84.02

30615 - Standard LCD Monitor (1)
Subtotal: $162.80

31371 - Mini Keyboard (1)
Subtotal: $19.80

31384 - Cover for Mini Keyboard (1)
Subtotal: $9.63

31289 - USB Bulkhead Port Assembly (1)
Subtotal: $32.88

31947 - Basic 3 Piece Indicator Set (1)
Subtotal: $75.16

31760 - Work Stop (1)
Subtotal: $26.18

32394 - TTS Tooling for the Deluxe Package (1)
Subtotal: $490.99

32284 - CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set (1)
Subtotal: $795.00

31807 - Modular Tension/Compression Tapping Head Kit (1)
Subtotal: $345.73

33031 - TTS SuperFly Cutter Kit for PCNC Packages (1)
Subtotal: $148.50

31925 - Floating Tramp Oil Collection Pillow (2)
Subtotal: $20.70

31386 - Machine Oil (1)
Subtotal: $34.50

31750 - Premier 600 Synthetic Coolant - 1 Gal. (1)
Subtotal: $25.03

32864-PKG - SprutCAM - PCNC Post only (1)
Subtotal: $1,040.00

32085 - PCNC 1100 Series 3 (1)
32383 - Automatic Oiler for PCNC 1100
Subtotal: $8,689.00

31706 - PCNC 1100 Power Drawbar (1)
Subtotal: $1,193.50

31991 - Pneumatic Hose Kit for Power Draw Bar/ATC/Fogbuster (1)
Subtotal: $16.23

32457 - FRL Filter-Regulator-Lubricator (1)
Subtotal: $89.00

31728 - Power Drawbar Foot Pedal Kit (1)
Subtotal: $68.45

31831 - TTS-ER16 (2)
Subtotal: $69.50

31688 - ER16 22pcs/set - Inch Sizes (1)
Subtotal: $195.00

32447 - TTS Diamond Drag Engraver Kit (1)
Subtotal: $68.79

32452 - 90° Replacement Diamond Drag Engraver Bit (1)
Subtotal: $23.99

31687 - 2pc Vise Alignment Keys with Screws for 5" Machinist Vise (2)
Subtotal: $28.06

31759 - 5" CNC Vise (2)
Subtotal: $590.00

Forgot to add this:
33212 - Haimer Zero Master - Analog (Inch) w/ TTS Holder

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

30286 - Machine Arm (2)....30555 - Tool Tray for Machine Arm (1)

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YMMV, but that is a lot of money to suspend electronics in a spot where they get hit by chips and coolant. I keep mine on a workbench right by the machine. Also, I prefer to keep tools in a rack where tools don't get debris kicked on them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

31415 - 5C Collet Fixture for 8" Rotary Table (1)...0233 - TTS-MT3 Collet & Drawbolt (1)

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I didn't see an entry for the 8" rotary table, but I am guessing you are thinking about getting one?

I have an 8" rotary... and I wish I had the 6" instead. 8" is about 120 lbs, and is a PIA to move around. Chances are you will never cut something where the extra 1" radius capability makes a difference. Also, the 8" would never fit underneath an ATC, if you get one in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

30616 - Shuttle Jog Controller (1)
Subtotal: $84.02

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You can get these (sans labeling) on Amazon for $40. But I recommend you splurge and get a $100-200 MPG from vistacnc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

30615 - Standard LCD Monitor (1)
Subtotal: $162.80

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Nothing special about this monitor. You can pick up ones like this from Newegg for $100.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

32394 - TTS Tooling for the Deluxe Package (1)
Subtotal: $490.99

32284 - CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set (1)
Subtotal: $795.00

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These two kits have redundant components. I would chose one or the other. I would recommend the 32284, partly because I am not a big fan of keyless chucks, and because the height gage is handy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

31386 - Machine Oil (1)
Subtotal: $34.50

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hmm. Tormach doesn't have great shipping rates, so this stuff starts to add up. I buy my oil (and other machinery related supplies) from USE_ENCO.com. They have the good stuff, Mobil Vactra 2, on sale for $19 a gallon, and they probably have a free shipping coupon for September. If you sign up for their email specials, generally about once every two weeks, they have a 15-20% off sale. I just bought 5 gallons cause this was such a good deal. You might also check them to see about coolant.

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

32864-PKG - SprutCAM - PCNC Post only (1)
Subtotal: $1,040.00

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Do you have a CAD solution already to go with this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

31831 - TTS-ER16 (2)... 31688 - ER16 22pcs/set - Inch Sizes (1)

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ER20 collets come with the CNC Operators tooling package.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

32457 - FRL Filter-Regulator-Lubricator (1)
Subtotal: $89.00

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Mine looks EXACTLY like that. Except it only cost $30. I think I bought it from Grizzly:
Grizzly.com

Something you missed:
31283 - TTS Touch Tool w/Mechanical Indicator and Box

I think it is worth the money. Although if you get the Hamlier, it is probably redundant.

I ordered all my Tormach stuff from John at Santa Cruz electronics. He has better shipping rates than Tormach, so it saved me about $50. Plus, I went down there, and he walked me through the mill and tooling.

duplicate

Thanks tmarks11 for looking this list over for me. This is why I love this place.

(1) Good points on the machine arms and tool trays. I was wondering about flying chips and coolant. The location of the controller cabinet seems like coolant would get inside....is it sealed around the door?

(2) I already have a 6" rotary table

(3) Ummm, I must look into this VistaCNC. Which model would you recommend? I did not see an MPG

(4) Yep, I was just about to drop the monitor. I've got an extra 23" LCD here at the office.

(5) Good points on the tooling kit. I'm actually going to look into the costs of choosing what I want v/s their "kits"

(6) I was thinking that I'd use their oil first then switch over to a less costly oil.

(7) I actually have a full key to CAMWorks 2012, 2.5 and 3 axis milling. However, my maintenance is up and it's $1,700 to renew. Also, CAMWorks is way more program than I need for the type machining I'm doing.

(8) I purchased these for doing some tight spot milling with small end mills.

(9) Looks like I'll buy my air regulator/filter/oiler from Grizzly

(10) I really liked the fact that the Hamlier is a 3 axis tool. One tool change to set X,Y &Z

Pretty much in agreement with tmarks list. I'd save some cash on the machine arms. I do use one on my 1100, but I like having my tooling outside of the mill envelope. I fabricated one for my 770, and the most expensive components were the bolts and nylon washers because I have lots of box tubing and plate laying around here. All of the small electrical components and monitors etc. can be had from Newegg, Amazon....etc for better overall pricing. As far as thinking ahead to rotary tables and such. I have both the 6" and 8", and even though the 8" is quite heavy with a chuck attached it is worlds better than the 6" model. The rigidity, holding power and stepper reserve makes it a joy to use. I use their passive probe daily and wish I had the Haimer. You definitely will want some sort of indicator for clocking vise, fixtures and indicating holes/bosses. Be sure to get a clamping set. FYI- the manual oiler is all I use to lubricate my machines and they are doing quite fine...you just have to remember to pull the handle.

Thanks pickled. I might remove the automatic oiler from list. I have a ton of fixtures and clamping from my previous shop. I had a funny feeling when I shut down that I'd be back... albeit in a smaller form.

On the pendant controller, I'm thinking....
iMachIII P2-S, P2-SE Pendant with the box for the remote estop.

I probably tend to nickel and dime things too much but...
Get a cheaper monitor. AFAIK standard Mach3 screens don't support a resolution higher than 1024x768 so a larger monitor may be wasted. Also, most modern monitors have the wrong aspect ratio for Mach3 scrrens. I use a surplus touch screen monitor which I find convenient.
I got a keyboard with integrated mouse pad from Newegg. I find a loose mouse a pain to use around the mill. There are also coolant proof keyboards which might be a good choice.
If you're like me you'll never put the cover on the keyboard.
Get a nice pendant rather than the Tormach one. I started with the Tormach one and then replaced it with a VistaCNC P4SE pendant with Estop kit. Expensive but the LCD is very convenient for setups.
Get the additional Estop kit (20790). Without it you have to reach over the work to activate the Estop.
Get the Tormach noise suppression kit (22059). It has completely cured the glitches with my pendant when mist coolant turns on.
Get a spare drag engraver bit since it is awful to have a failure on Friday evening. You may also want both the 120 and 90-degree tools (32452 and 32453).
The Tormach machine arms seem overpriced and rather poorly finished; I designed my own. One has a fancy toolholder and the other has a mount for the monitor plus keyboard. This was one of my first Tormach projects.
I'm always forgetting to oil so I think that the automatic oiler is worthwhile. I ordered it but haven't installed it yet.
I use an MT2-ER40 holder for the rotary table. This gives a much wider clamping range.
The tailstock for the rotary table is available from Enco for considerably less than the Tormach price.
There are cheaper sources than Tormach but you'll need some inserts for the super fly cutter.
Do you really need the TTS-MT3 (20233)?
Consider getting the control panel relocation kit (33302). I don't have it but wish that I did to keep coolant off the control panel.
Just a few thoughts...

Thanks kstrauss! Great feedback. I can see my list is changing by the hour.

Is there a reason you went with the P4SE v/s the P2SE?

I'm going to run the computer on a rolling stand out of the way of the machine now. Thanks for the heads up on the monitor. I've got a ton of 17" LCD ones sitting around here.

Man I wish I'd kept a bunch of my ER40 stuff that I had with my Fadal VMC15.

Thanks for the advice!

I don't recall the complete rationale for choosing the P4SE instead of the P2SE but... Having the 3 user definable buttons seemed attractive but I haven't yet used them. There is a dedicated "jog Z-axis up" button on the P4 which I use frequently. The "zero axis" ability on the P4 seems more intuitive than on the P2. I'm certain that there are other good reasons for spending $80 more! Get the "pendant boot" and probably the "pendant hanger". I was cheap, saved $3, and spent an evening designing and machining a pendant hanger out of Delrin.

Depending on your need for er20 and accuracy and risk taking...check the eBay seller bsello 168 for knock off tts er20 collets. I have seen good reviews and there is a YouTube video review out there too. He shows the holders being hit and miss for runout. Like I said, accuracy vs risk and saving some money.

I replaced my keyboard with one of the roll up waterproof ones from Ebay, no cover needed, and it was 10 dollars delivered. I wish I had a coolant proof mouse as well, wonder if someone makes one??

It is somewhat more than $10 but what about DSI Waterproof Industrial Medical Silicone Keyboard With Mouse JH IKB108 | eBay ? It claims to include a joystick (?) under the space bar.

popspipes, I picked up one of these and it seems to be holding up.
Amazon.com: STORMTM Medical Grade Optical Mous: Computers & Accessories

I also have the rubber keyboard and it is doing OK. The buttons aren't as responsive as a regular keyboard, but you also don't have to worry about a chip getting stuck in the arrow down key.

My problem with a separate mouse is it keeps sliding onto the floor.

kstrauss I used to have that problem. I error proofed that with a zip tie and a post made out of tubing and a drywall screw :-). It's like putting your mouse on a leash :-)...the little ba$tard doesn't run away anymore!

My take on the shopping list
no machine arms and trays unless room is problem, "all tools, kybd, mouse, jogger, lcd on a rolling tool box also handy to hold all that stuff on list."
no lcd I have a few extras and still do
no cables I have boxes of extras and still do.
no keyboard , I.have boxes of extras and still do :)
no manual user tts set. cnc with height gauge is a must. I don't even use arbor chucks much "er 20 tool holders and collets for everything"

Big time yes and imho have to have items.
stand
machine
pdb
hamier 3d probe
shuttle jog control.
cnc operators set
tormach vise and keys
fog buster spray coolant system
interapid style indicator and magnetic base. Needed to adjust hamier 3d in tool holder :) along with many other uses.
spare hamier probe tip easy to break, expensive so you only break one :)
digital height touch tool and set of wobble type edge finders. hamier might not always work and a backup is nice to have.
normal t-slot clamps 5/8 if you don't have sets already.
Vise parallels.
End mills amd drills of course
lifting bar system
way oil and coolant "if you don't have this"
air compressor , filters, regulators and lubricators for pdb and fog buster

I use the items listed above every day!
I have about 36 tts holders purchased over 10 months.
30 with cutting type tools and 6 with touch type tools like probes and edge finders.
Easy to be basic at first and add more as needed.
This will get you started on the machine side and add other tools as required for your needs

Good computer system with 16 gb memoy and good gfx cards
CAD system software "can be expensive"
Sprutcam or other good cam program. "again expensive" " for me the machine is a paper weight without these 3 things"

This is what I use everyday
Most all the other items on your list are also good to have.
And a side note
I would decide on 1 collet size like er16 or er 20 and use that for all tool holders "not mix and match" my opinion
md

Edit and added:

I would also provide the machine and the controller with clean dedicated power.
I have very few problems with my system and I think this has much to do with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

(1) Good points on the machine arms and tool trays. I was wondering about flying chips and coolant. The location of the controller cabinet seems like coolant would get inside....is it sealed around the door?

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Yes and no. The design is such that it's largely sealed. I suppose you'd call it splash proof, not water proof. I have noticed since my work switched to primarily delrin that some small chips are indeed working their way in there. Something about them causes them to get everywhere, though, and at least they're fairly harmless. I keep meaning to put some cushy weather stripping around the door to really get it sealed.

I never noticed metal chips or coolant making it in there, though it's strongly advised that you avoid directing coolant onto it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

(5) Good points on the tooling kit. I'm actually going to look into the costs of choosing what I want v/s their "kits"

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In retrospect I'd do this as well, if I could do it all over. But, then again, it'd have been hard to make an accurate prediction about what I'd actually need. For instance I ended up with four jacobs chucks, but I only ever use one. The vast majority of my drilling is accomplished with carbide bits in er20 holders. I'd never have thought that'd be the case, but here I am. I guess my thought on it is to not worry much about getting everything you think you need on day one. You'll invariably end up with holders you never use and buying holders you need down the road. Start small and work up as work demands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

(7) I actually have a full key to CAMWorks 2012, 2.5 and 3 axis milling. However, my maintenance is up and it's $1,700 to renew. Also, CAMWorks is way more program than I need for the type machining I'm doing.

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Sprutcam is a lot of program, in both good and bad senses. I'm forever on the fence about it. It works, but it always feels like it does so in a haphazard and sloppy way. You can get pretty good with it but I've never really enjoyed using it. If you're already familiar with something else, and are satisfied with it, I'd suggest you strongly consider splurging here and keeping with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

Ok, looks like I'm going to take the plunge and buy a full setup. Hobby/small job shop work. I fully understand the limitations to this machine. I previously owned a Fadal VMC15 however when I shut my shop down I could not fit the Fadal in my garage or basement. As I stated in my other post, some guys buy fast cars and bass boats, well, tinkering on a CNC is my hobby.

Take a look at my list and add in any suggestions on items I may have looked past (about the only thing I left off was the ATC and enclosure). I am looking at getting the Duality Lathe from someone else.

30297 - PCNC 1100 Deluxe Machine Stand (1)
Subtotal: $1,644.50

30286 - Machine Arm (2)
Subtotal: $590.00

34437 - Cable Kit for Tormach PCNC 1100 / PCNC 770 (1)
Subtotal: $39.95

30555 - Tool Tray for Machine Arm (1)
Subtotal: $57.70

31446 - Lifting Bar (1)
Subtotal: $93.21

31415 - 5C Collet Fixture for 8" Rotary Table (1)
Subtotal: $185.35

30252 - 15 Piece 5C Collet Set (1)
Subtotal: $69.95

30233 - TTS-MT3 Collet & Drawbolt (1)
Subtotal: $29.76

34917 - Tormach Machine Controller w/Mach3 (1)
Subtotal: $715.00

30616 - Shuttle Jog Controller (1)
Subtotal: $84.02

30615 - Standard LCD Monitor (1)
Subtotal: $162.80

31371 - Mini Keyboard (1)
Subtotal: $19.80

31384 - Cover for Mini Keyboard (1)
Subtotal: $9.63

31289 - USB Bulkhead Port Assembly (1)
Subtotal: $32.88

31947 - Basic 3 Piece Indicator Set (1) NO. BUY AN INTERAPID
Subtotal: $75.16

31760 - Work Stop (1)
Subtotal: $26.18

32394 - TTS Tooling for the Deluxe Package (1) If you're really an ex owner, do it the way I did and buy a bunch of different holders. DO NOT BUY THR SETS. There are tools in the sets that you'll likely never use
Subtotal: $490.99

32284 - CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set (1)
Subtotal: $795.00

31807 - Modular Tension/Compression Tapping Head Kit (1)
Subtotal: $345.73

33031 - TTS SuperFly Cutter Kit for PCNC Packages (1)
Subtotal: $148.50

31925 - Floating Tramp Oil Collection Pillow (2)
Subtotal: $20.70

31386 - Machine Oil (1)
Subtotal: $34.50

31750 - Premier 600 Synthetic Coolant - 1 Gal. (1) Buy a 5 gallon pail of a good coolant. I use Blazocut 2000 Universal.
Subtotal: $25.03

32864-PKG - SprutCAM - PCNC Post only (1)
Subtotal: $1,040.00

32085 - PCNC 1100 Series 3 (1)
32383 - Automatic Oiler for PCNC 1100
Subtotal: $8,689.00

31706 - PCNC 1100 Power Drawbar (1)
Subtotal: $1,193.50

31991 - Pneumatic Hose Kit for Power Draw Bar/ATC/Fogbuster (1)
Subtotal: $16.23

32457 - FRL Filter-Regulator-Lubricator (1)
Subtotal: $89.00

31728 - Power Drawbar Foot Pedal Kit (1)
Subtotal: $68.45

31831 - TTS-ER16 (2) 6 buy some ER 16 holders too. You're gonna need them.
Subtotal: $69.50

31688 - ER16 22pcs/set - Inch Sizes (1)
Subtotal: $195.00

32447 - TTS Diamond Drag Engraver Kit (1)
Subtotal: $68.79

32452 - 90° Replacement Diamond Drag Engraver Bit (1)
Subtotal: $23.99

31687 - 2pc Vise Alignment Keys with Screws for 5" Machinist Vise (2)
Subtotal: $28.06

31759 - 5" CNC Vise (2)
Subtotal: $590.00

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Read my suggestions in red. I too am an ex owner and I didn't buy any tooling sets. I had a pretty good what tooling I wanted so I bought 4 each 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 1/2 inch set screw tool holders. I also bought 6 each ER 16 and ER 20 collet holders. I have since added an ER 16 T/C tap holder and a 1 inch arbor for a slitting saw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smokediver576

On the pendant controller, I'm thinking....
iMachIII P2-S, P2-SE Pendant with the box for the remote estop.

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That is the one I chose. They have quite the variety, with little variation between them. I think they could focus in on maybe 3 models....

You want the SE version, as that is the one that works with the remote estop relay...the S just tells the software it has had enough, it is missing the extra wire for the relay box.