Plasma table with powermax 105 or 125 and torch heigh control

I will build a new machine and I seek for some insight from owners of Hypertherm plasmas.
This build will be my 3rd build plasma. I have sold my other plasmas and this machine I hope to be better than the last one.

I have a few questions:

1) Plasma source: I never used a Hypertherm, but it seams that is top of the line, so now that I have more financial capacity due to the sale of the previous plasma I will probably buy a 105 or a 125 hypertherm. I cut sometimes 25mm (about 1"). It would be good to be able to pierce 1". Any recommendation about those machines? I am being asked about 7000 euros for the 125 model, what is very expensive, but if the plasma is good I can go forward with the buy although this is half of my budget.

2) Torch height control. I never used a plasma with one, and definatly I will buy one. I also contacted Hypertherm and I am being asked for 3000€. So a 125 + thc will be about 10000 euros, that is about 11500 USD. What are the real advantages of the Hyperterm THC control compared with others solutions on the market or a DIY solution? This issue is very important to me as the Hyperterm seams to be sensitive to the pierce height and timing.
I have a workshop with competent people to design and program electronics if needed, so for anyone that reply, please that this in consideration.

3) Linear rails. I see lots of tables with linear rails, but plasmas are simply to dirty and I am afraid of using them due to the dust. I was also looking for dual vee, but hard to get in Europe. Prices are similar. Any consideration?

Plasma will be for plates of 3000x1500 that is about 118 inches x 60 inches.

Thank you

I would buy the 125. Bigger is better in my opinion. I have the 1650 and will replace with the 125.

Best,

Tom

Is that 125 consume more power? Or depend on thickness of materials to be cut. Thicker material will consume more power?

1. The Powermax105 is rated to pierce through 7/8" steel, the Powermax125 is rated to pierce 1.25" steel. The 125 is also rated at 100% duty cycle...the only inverter based plasma that has the 100% industrial rating.

2. Torch height control needs to accurately sense the surface of the material, then has to retract to pierce height, pierce, then after the pierce delay timer times out index rapidly to cut height. Once the x and y movement begins the height control switches into arc voltage feedback mode....this requires a signal from the cnc control that can freeze height when slowing for corners and fine features. So...all Hypertherm height controls can handle this type of functionality, and it is recommended that your cnc control has the corner freeze output in order to prevent diving. The Hypertherm height controls also are available with heavy duty z axis drives that can support high duty cycle cutting. You don't mention what cnc and electronics (drives, I/O, etc.) you will be using....so it is difficult for me to help you determine if the Hypertherm THC is the best choice.

3. Linear rails have been used on high production plasma cnc machines for over 20 years. They are normally specified with wipers that keep the bearings free from cutting dust.....there are no issues related to wear that I have experienced. Linear rails usually are more accurate than vee rails.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fomaz

I will build a new machine and I seek for some insight from owners of Hypertherm plasmas.
This build will be my 3rd build plasma. I have sold my other plasmas and this machine I hope to be better than the last one.

I have a few questions:

1) Plasma source: I never used a Hypertherm, but it seams that is top of the line, so now that I have more financial capacity due to the sale of the previous plasma I will probably buy a 105 or a 125 hypertherm. I cut sometimes 25mm (about 1"). It would be good to be able to pierce 1". Any recommendation about those machines? I am being asked about 7000 euros for the 125 model, what is very expensive, but if the plasma is good I can go forward with the buy although this is half of my budget.

2) Torch height control. I never used a plasma with one, and definatly I will buy one. I also contacted Hypertherm and I am being asked for 3000€. So a 125 + thc will be about 10000 euros, that is about 11500 USD. What are the real advantages of the Hyperterm THC control compared with others solutions on the market or a DIY solution? This issue is very important to me as the Hyperterm seams to be sensitive to the pierce height and timing.
I have a workshop with competent people to design and program electronics if needed, so for anyone that reply, please that this in consideration.

3) Linear rails. I see lots of tables with linear rails, but plasmas are simply to dirty and I am afraid of using them due to the dust. I was also looking for dual vee, but hard to get in Europe. Prices are similar. Any consideration?

Plasma will be for plates of 3000x1500 that is about 118 inches x 60 inches.

Thank you

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Hi Formaz
To answer your questions i will share with you from my experience because i built couple machineses and i learn couple things from people who share informations and of course, mistakes. Right now i have a machine 1500 x 3000 with Powermax1250.
1. You should buy a plasma who satisfy 80% of your cuts (here i reffer to pierce capability). The extra money i will use for good drivers. Or THC. Or linear.
2. As the THC choice, i have experience using couple of them (in order will be: Agelkom, Proma, RazorDTHC, and Neuron)
I had to choose from Cand and Neuron and i spent couple months to study each one. So i chosed most featured, with easy and pleasant interface, with all options of Hypertherm, yet profesional but not as expensive. So, on my last 4 machines i built i used only Neuron THC. I would recomand to visit Andrew Shad (the owner of Neuron THC) page and take a look at posted features and also look for youtube videos. You will see how it works. And most important, quality of cut. I also seen recently a very hot dialog between another user of Neuron THC(a very smart one, in the good way) and owner of Cand CNC. This dialog porves me that i made a very good choice.
I belive that you will have to integrate purchased THC in Mach3 software. How the Hypertherm THC will work with Mach3 (i don't belive it is posible using all the features described by Jim). I think that you will have to purchase control unit too with software... etc.
3. I will make my options for linear after i will choose Plasma and THC. The best plasma (with a very stable arc) and best THC should decide which linear rail to use.
I hope my post is helpfull enough

Thank you all.

Regarding the plasma source, I still did not made my decision, mostly because the responsible for sales in Portugal is Spanish, and it is not a commercial company with a physical address. It is a person with a home office base. Although I have talked with him and the Netherlands headquarters confirmed that he his the man to talk to, it makes me confusion how it works because I must think in case of a problem what must I do. It is a very expensive machine.
Hypertherm have a company that are the sales representation for Portugal (no powermax 125 in stock) that seams reply to the spanish "head master". In resume the business is made with the Spanish salesman, but the sale is made by the Portuguese company...

Regarding the THC. My first idea was to buy a Hypertherm complete system (it is expensive, but it would work. Period). Strangely enough, I got the information that the Portuguese sale department would not feel at will to support such a system (I think due to inexperience). So the solution would be, in case of need, to call a Spanish technical assistant. So what was expensive would turn out prohibitive.
Please not to anyone that is reading this that I am not complaining about the people that I am being talking to, because they seam to be quite straight forward and professional, but I feel that in case I buy a Hypertherm, I can be without assistance easily.

I will not use Mach3, so it seams that the Neuron THC is not suitable.

Regarding the linear rails, this is for now the only thing that is defined. I bought 30 size for the X axis and 20 size for the Y axis. I need good motion. Without good motion, there is not plasma that can do a good cut.

Edingcnc is also capable of thc with the ethernet connection. See the eding website: http://www.edingcnc.com/
This is an integrated solution specific for the edingcnc software and hardware.

assink,

your link is bad. and my Dutch reading skills are poor too.

Hmm, seems that the website of edingcnc is down at this moment.. Try again later.

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Originally Posted by bdrotaru

Hi Formaz

2. As the THC choice, i have experience using couple of them (in order will be: Agelkom, Proma, RazorDTHC, and Neuron)
I had to choose from Cand and Neuron and i spent couple months to study each one. So i chosed most featured, with easy and pleasant interface, with all options of Hypertherm, yet profesional but not as expensive. So, on my last 4 machines i built i used only Neuron THC. I would recomand to visit Andrew Shad (the owner of Neuron THC) page and take a look at posted features and also look for youtube videos. You will see how it works. And most important, quality of cut. I also seen recently a very hot dialog between another user of Neuron THC(a very smart one, in the good way) and owner of Cand CNC. This dialog porves me that i made a very good choice

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And, a good choice it was. In your in-depth analysis you must have missed the part where we don't sell or ship to Romania . Had you contacted us at any point you would have been told that. We do not sell to any location where we cannot give a good level of support. I would not have advised you to make us part of the decision process.

Quote:

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I belive that you will have to integrate purchased THC in Mach3 software. How the Hypertherm THC will work with Mach3 (i don't believe it is possible using all the features described by Jim). I think that you will have to purchase control unit too with software... etc.
3. I will make my options for linear after i will choose Plasma and THC. The best plasma (with a very stable arc) and best THC should decide which linear rail to use.
I hope my post is helpfull enough

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What the user needs is a true Stand Alone THC that is not tied to any type controller.or OS.

We do have very specific options for the Hypertherm Powermax models . (single cable external connect, RS485 option, etc) but currently we only support MACH running in Windows) Honestly our market is not the THC only or THC add-on. We sell solutions from PC interface boxes to full 5 axis controllers in stepper or servo.

But then again what do I know? I am just the "dumb" one in the bunch.:tired:

A true stand alone torch height control (THC) does not require any software to operate. It installs between the cnc outputs and the plasma cutter inputs, and usually is hardwired.

Here's how a stand alone functions:

1. Cnc control moves x and y axis to the cut start position....then issues a start command for the plasma.
2. THC intercepts the start command and indexes the torch toward the material.
3. THC locates material surface via either ohmic contact or some sort of motor current or stall sensing, or a limit switch (depending on manufacturer and design).
4. After locating the surface the THC then indexes the torch up to the operator set pierce height.
5. Start signal for plasma is then sent from the THC to plasma input,
6. Torch fires, plasma sends an arc transferred signal back to the THC.
7. When arc transferred signal is received, THC starts counting with the (operator set) pierce delay timer.
8.When pierce delay finishes, a signal is sent to the cnc to start x and y program motion, at the same time the torch indexes down to the cut height (operator set).
9. When cnc reaches a certain percentage of programmed cut speed (usually around 80 to 90%,) a signal is sent to the THC to start arc voltage control (AVC).
10. If at any time during the cut the speed drops below the percentage listed in (9), the AVC control will stop and height will freeze until speed is above the percentage. (cornering, slowdowns required for intricate moves, etc.)
11. The THC should also recognize voltage anomalies related to kerf crossings and freeze the height to eliminate diving.
12. at the end of the cut program the THC will retract the torch to avoid collisions when traversing to the next cut.

Hypertherm has two standalone Industrial quality THC systems that include the z axis slide and torch mount and torch collision breakaway and collision stop sensor. They are expensive, robust, and designed for 100% duty cycle operation on industrial grade cnc cutting machines. Our other THC's are integrated into our CNC controls and act as an additional axis with arc voltage feedback.

Best regards, Jim Colt

Currently I have the plasma table finished with a hypertherm 105.
I would like to know how can I control the amperage of the hypertherm remotely. This way the operator would use a database with the plate thickness and would use the advisable plasma settings.

Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torchhead

And, a good choice it was. In your in-depth analysis you must have missed the part where we don't sell or ship to Romania . Had you contacted us at any point you would have been told that. We do not sell to any location where we cannot give a good level of support. I would not have advised you to make us part of the decision process.

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Dear Torchead
I contacted you 3-4 years ago before purchasing any other THC. But you treated me like i wanted to steal from you not to buy. I'm sorry that i didn't keep the message received from you. It's true that it cost me time and money but in the end Neuron THC was the final choice.
I don't think that a high quality product will need a high level of support other than wiring instructions and a forum with couple advice's for users.

You shipped your devices to Romania. I know at least two users of your devices.

[quote] You shipped your devices to Romania. I know at least two users of your devices.[\quote]
Then they either bought them over 4 years ago or got them another way than direct, because we DO NOT ship to Romania or any countries in that region

We ship to the UK, Norway, Finland Sweden, Germany, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, North America, Mexico and parts of South America
You made the statement that you had done an in- depth analysis of our current DTHCIV technology versus the Neuron and from a general description
on our website. I don't understand how you can call that in-depth. How can you analyze something you don't have and cannot get?

The Powermax105 has an optional serial (RS485) communications link. It is field installable and the Hypertherm part number is 228539. To operate it you would need to have the right cnc electronics as well as software that was set-up with the correct interface protocol. If you have a Hypertherm cnc control it can communicate with the serial link and set amperage, air pressure as well as to read the plasma cutter diagnostics. I believe you can do this with the Mach 3 based systems from www.candcnc.com if they are purchased equipped for the RS485 serial communication.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fomaz

Currently I have the plasma table finished with a hypertherm 105.
I would like to know how can I control the amperage of the hypertherm remotely. This way the operator would use a database with the plate thickness and would use the advisable plasma settings.

Thank you.

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