Controlling a 2.2Kw BLDC motor with Kflop

I have bought a BLDC motor with a controller and in the manual it says it the following about remote control:

Quote:

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CN17—analog input voltage connector, through the J2, J3 set is 0 ~ 5 V input or 0 ~ 10 V input;

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is the pins on JP7-23 to 26 able to do this? (not using all of them)

also, i need to have a Potential free relay for emergency stop of the spindle, how is that connected to the Kflop?
and one last thing.. does anyone know how to control forward/reverse on this BLDC controller? (and maby use the tap mode)

i have included the manual to the BLDC motor and controller


extra info: i think that these motors was original sold by a company named "sangmutan" a couple of years ago if that helps with identifying it.

If you're using only KFLOP, then no, JP7-23 to 26 are not able to do this. You need Kanalog or another PWM-to-Analog board for this, but this controller is also capable of using PWM, which KFLOP can output. Page 8 in the user manual shows you where to connect this (CN15-6). Pin 5 on the same connector is controlling FWD/REV, high for FWD, low for REV.

If you want to use KFLOP to control the emergency stop relay for the motor, the only thing you have to do is to use a transistor controlled by one of the KFLOP pins to control the coil of the relay and connecting the contacts on the relay to contacts K1/K2 as shown on page 5.

so taking JP6-5 on the Kflop to CN15-6 on the BLDC would work?
(what more do i need to connect to complete that circuit?)

should the rest of the controls on CN15 be done with LVTTL? (btw, what kind of signal is that? a pulse or a constant voltage?)

You would also have to connect Ground between them. It doesn't say in the manual if it will work with 3.3V, but you would most likely be better off using a level converter to get it to 5V.

Which signal? FWD/REV should be a constant voltage depending on your direction, while the PWM is a pulse train.

common ground from the PSU?

would a cheep converter like this work for that?


i am new to CNC and electronics.. i have a veeeeerry basic understanding and i try to read about the subjects i am working with, but sometimes i don't have a clue where to start..
so when i see this "low level" term i am not 100% sure what kind of signal we are talking about, in this case i assume that the CN15 I/O on the BLDC card is looking for a high level (5V DC would be high and 0Vdc is low, like a digital on/off?) 5V potential between 5 and 7 would enable forward mode, but not start the motor? right?

so the correct way to start this would be something like this?

Quote:

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to run forward at 1000 RPM:

- set pin 7 high to enable forward motion
- set pin 6 high for a short time, giving start pulse to controller, starting the motor in forward
- set pin 10 to 1 KHz to set a speed (not sure if this is right)
- set pin 6 high for a short time to give another pulse to stop the spindle

spindle is now stopped

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i must admit i don't understand the language in the manual, do i only control 10 to 90 % of the speed range? and how can i set what point should be 10%? (maybe it starts at whatever frequency it gets at start up and go from that point?)

and i have no idea how to get the Kflop to do this, i guess trough c programming but i don't know what and where

have included a PaintCad image combining the two as i think is right. And a link to the kflop pin out

Attachment 242868

Hi Jossa,

The manual is poorly written and doesn't specify the voltage levels. It looks like there are opto couplers on that board (small 4 pin chips). So probably an output sinking to GND will turn on the 5V Opto LED. KFLOP can sink a +5V signal to GND fine, but when it goes high it may only be ~3V which will still apply ~2V to the opto and it may not turn off. So as stated earlier by others I suspect you may need a level shifter to higher levels closer to +5V. Something like this might work:

JY MCU 5V 3V IIC UART SPI Level 4 Way Converter Module Adapter | eBay

You would need to buffer the PWM as well. You will also need a GND connection. A PWM signal is a pulse that is a fixed frequency (like 1KHz) but is high some percentage of the time. The higher the percentage the higher the speed should be.

There is an example called PWM1KHz.c that will output a 50% duty cycle at 1KHz on IO26. You might switch your wiring to connect the PWM signal to IO26 to make things simpler.

If you get that to work and run at 50% speed then we can give further instructions on how to vary the speed programmatically and such.

I doubt if you can set what speed a 10% duty cycle will give you. It will probably be 10% of the full motor speed.

HTH
Regards

Hi jossa,

Actually now that I think about it, don't you have a KSTEP? It has an analog output that you might use instead of the PWM.

Regards

ok so if i buy that one that you linked to it could be used to send the signals with 5V level?
yes i agree that is difficult to understand the manual and i have contacted the factory for assistance in interpreting it.

buffering PWM? i have tried searching for that term, but i am none the wiser..


right now i am contemplating to just solder the switches off the keyboard and using transistors to mimic the push of a button..
this other logic stuff is not that easy to understand.
and even then i don't know how to wire that up and program it.. maybe this BLDC controller is one level to high above me..

yes i have a Kstep.

are you thinking about JP33-6/7?
is there any other way of using the outputs on the Kstep for the logic stuff?

Hi jossa,

Yes JP33 Pins 5,6, and 7 are the KSTEP Analog Output pins.

Apply KFLOP's +5V to JP33 pin 5.
Apply KFLOP's GND to JP33 pin 7 and also Spindle CN17 GND
Then JP33 Pin 6 will be a 0-5V signal that you can connect to the Spindle CN17 "Input".

Configure KMotionCNC | Tool Setup | M3-M9 | S = Exec Prog Thread=2 Var=1 <>\C Programs\KSTEP\KMotionCNC\Spindle_S_KStep.c

Check with a Voltmeter (DC Volts) to JP33 Pin6. Commanding in KMotionCNC MDI S100 should read about 1.0V, S250 should read about 2.5V, S400 should read about 4.0V. etc.

Yes there are two "Relay" driver outputs on KSTEP that can be used to "switch" the +5V signals like Start/Stop and For/Rev to GND. Try connecting the Spindle Signals to the Relay + and the Relay - to GND.
Toggling the Relay Driver IO (KFLOP IO 0 and 1) as described here under Relay Driver Outputs should activate the signals:
Using KStep

HTH
Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TomKerekes

Hi jossa,

Yes JP33 Pins 5,6, and 7 are the KSTEP Analog Output pins.

Apply KFLOP's +5V to JP33 pin 5. (That would be the 5v found on JP33 pin 25? or does it have to come from kflop?)
Apply KFLOP's GND to JP33 pin 7 and also Spindle CN17 GND (also JP33 pin 26?)
Then JP33 Pin 6 will be a 0-5V signal that you can connect to the Spindle CN17 "Input".

Configure KMotionCNC | Tool Setup | M3-M9 | S = Exec Prog Thread=2 Var=1 <>\C Programs\KSTEP\KMotionCNC\Spindle_S_KStep.c

(that is a prewriten program in a DIR on my computer, where do i load that after configuring it?)


Check with a Voltmeter (DC Volts) to JP33 Pin6. Commanding in KMotionCNC MDI S100 should read about 1.0V, S250 should read about 2.5V, S400 should read about 4.0V. etc.

Yes there are two "Relay" driver outputs on KSTEP that can be used to "switch" the +5V signals like Start/Stop and For/Rev to GND. Try connecting the Spindle Signals to the Relay + and the Relay - to GND.
Toggling the Relay Driver IO (KFLOP IO 0 and 1) as described here under Relay Driver Outputs should activate the signals:
Using KStep

(ok i see.. that is a low amp "Relay".. i will try to get a answer from the factory about the logic, and hopfuly i can use that, if not this is my last option.. what should i ask them about the logic circuits? voltage levels and anything else?)


HTH
Regards

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i have been working on my control cabinet lately, not finished but all the mains are up and running now. so i can start concentrating on the low voltage stuff.
Attachment 243630


i have also got a slightly different version of the manual, it is for a smaller motor, but the controller is the same.. the English is better in this one but nothing on the logic level voltage.

btw the using Kstep link was helpful, do you have something similar for the Kflop?

Got this back from the manufacturer:

Quote:

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CN15: External user interface port.
 Pin 1 (+15V): 15V DC power supply
 Pin 2 (+5V): External +5 V power supply
 Pin 3 (TAP): A low input enables the tapping function.
 Pin 4 (S/P): Start or pause motor rotation.
o High = Stop motor
o Low = Start motor
 Pin 5 (F/R): Select motor forward or reverse.
o High = Forward direction.
o Low = reverse direction.
 Pin 6 (PWM): Motor speed input. This input will handle PWM signal
from 500 to 5 KHz (Recommended frequency is 1 KHz)
 Pin 7 (FGND): Frame Ground.

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and he attached the following picture. and it made me none the wiser.. maybe you understand it?
Attachment 245252

Hi jossa,

I don't think that really helps. Pretty much the same as in that manual. I think your best bet is to try to use the Analog input on CN17.

Good luck
Regards

yes.. that would take care of the the speed controlling.

and then i would use the "relay" outputs on JP33-1 to 4 and jimmi that onto the buttons?



tom, what exactly do i want to ask the factory about? i can resend a mail to him and ask any question. if that could help in this.

i just had an idea.. maybe.. :P

would it help to use a micro controller like an arduino between the two systems?..
it could "translate" the different levels and i could also make a manual spindle control board for the system.

but i am not sure it would solve anything, maybe it just complicates everything even more.

Hi Jossa,

I don't see how something like that would help. You still need to know what to do.

I would experiment applying a small voltage to CN17 to see if the motor will run. I would use a 1.5V battery through about a 1K ohm resistor. The motor should run at 15% of full speed.

Regards

ok so there is nothing that i should ask the factory about that would help me?

How about:

"What do I need to do to allow a 0-10V analog signal into CN17 to control the speed? What are the jumper settings and inputs required for this to work?"

If it were me I would just try it. Apply the 1.5V as I described and jumper the Start pin (CN15 Pin4) to GND.

Regards

thanks Tom :)

i will ask them that and in the meantime i will experiment with the 1.5V to see how it behaves :)