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Will the New UMC 750 run circles around a Mazak Variaxis 500? Currently in the Market for a 5 axis machine and the Haas looks impressive but no experience with the has trunnion style machine. Can you get pretty aggressive milling with a trunnion setup or is it a lot less rigid the VF3 with a vise mounted on table? And if so, how aggressive will the trunnion handle?
Thanks in Advance!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 250A16
Please tell me you are kidding.
No i'm being serious.. I have No experience with Mazak or any 5 axis trunnion style machines only 3 axis. I have heard from several people that the UMC 750 is built for being aggressive. Do you have experience with the UMC and Variaxis? Thanks
Pretty much a blanket statement that holds true here also...
"You can't really compare the Japanese machines with a Haas."
Haas has it's place...perhaps in this comparison it is price point. Rigidity has never been Haas's strong point.
Just for the record...I do not have any Haas 5 axis machines (nor will I ever).. We have a variaxis though. Also a Mazak 510 with a 4th and a Haas VF3SS. I've also ran VF2's through VF8's with 4th axis. Again...no comparison vs the Mazaks.
Not bagging on haas here...but they do not compete with Mazak side by side. I've ran exact same programs on the VF3SS and the 510 and the 510 with the same speeds and feeds will give you 200-300% better tool wear and 20% less cycle time.
That is exactly the information I was looking for. I have a Haas currently and tool life isn't what I remembered it being with My 2011 Mori Nv5000 but not same money either. But when I buy a 5 axis machine the price between a few year old Variaxis and a new umc750
Is about the same. But I expect better long term returns with the Variaxis. Thanks
If Cutting 6061 aluminum with a Variaxis what speeds and feeds have you used with a 3 flute .750 dia. End mill? Will the variaxis take .550 deep x .500 radial step over @ 375" ipm? That figure a MRR around 100? A 3 axis Haas can do that cut but it is loading spindle about 165%. Just afraid I will lose rigidity with the trunnion setup.
That deep of a cut might be pushing it with the UMC table, but I can't speak from direct experience with those. I only have experience with the Haas bolt-on indexers, both the dual-supported ones and the smaller tables that are supported on only one end. The double supported indexers are much preferable (obviously), I take nice cuts with insert facemills on those without much issues. I run into workholding rigidity issues more so than dealing with the indexer. But the items I work are usually fairly small (like less than 4" wide) so their roughing operations are done in no time flat, rigidity isn't of concern for the remainder of the machining. so it might not apply to the items you'd be running on a larger integrated 5ax table.
Been a long time since I ran a 5ax mazak...that brings me back!
Another consideration might be availability. My Haas salesman says 180 days from order for an UMC750.
He also says that the owners of the ones he has sold are happy with them, but none of them are roughing aggressively.
I have yet to play with one myself, but hope to soon, as I'm considering purchasing one.
I have 5 axis Fadal and Kitamura, and I try to do my roughing in 3 axis before moving over to the trunnions.
I have also found that 3+2 offers better finishes and accuracy in 99% of my work than full 5. Having the axis brakes on really makes a difference.
My $0.02 (US)
Why not compare, mazak is the Haas of the Japanese world. Every newer mazak ive had my hands on is lightly built. None compare to the Moris, okumas, or Makinos.
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The Makino PS 95 is no match for the Haas VM 3 when it comes to taking heavy cuts at high rpms. I ran parts for 3 years on a Performance series Fadal with the Siemens 840D control. The PS95 stalled the spindle about 3" into the cut in aluminum. Cut specs were .750 Dia. Endmill .500 deep and .500 step over 10000rpm, 200 ipm. The Haas vm3 that replaced the POS 95 has been taking this cut for the last year no problems yet.
LOL - Lightly built eh? I just checked the weight of the new Mori 40" vertical vs my 2005 40" vertical Mazak and they are within a hundred pounds of each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by underthetire
The Haas UMC 750 is marketed as a 3+2 machine. They have had numerous software problems with these and almost all their other machines.
If you want a good machine buy the Mazak. The Haas is very light duty and I doubt they would last very long in a normal shop enviroment
I have experience with the Matsuura MX-520 and surprised there is no discussion about this machine? The industry should educate themselves on what true 5-Axis machining is about but please stop and take a close look at the machine design, the trunion, kitematics, bearing sizes, spindle design/torque, positional and repeatability accuracies . . .
Compare the UMC-750 spec to the MX-520. There is a difference and for a reason.
DMG MORI DMU MonoBlock and DuoBlock Series is the premier platform for 5 axis machine. When it comes to 5 axis machining, Siemens has no equal in speed, accuracy, or surface finish.