No Example Files for X4 with Adtech 4840

Hi,


We recently had our first X4 factory fit with an ADTech 4840 controller, delivered here in Australia and it seems to be working OK,

For integration with our CAM software we need to build a post processor, and for that we need a full set of standard operating examples for the ADTech 4840 specific to the X4 - standard 2.5 3 and 4 axis demos using all G- M- and canned cycles consistently in a way that can assist development of a proper post proc.

We were assured that there would be no problem to get these, but we gave them our money and the machine was delivered, since then the support from Syil in China has been near zero.

Our local agent has been trying for months to get such a simple collection of demos (they should have tons of these) but instead our local agent has reverted to trying to create some demos himself which has proved problematic for his already busy schedule. But this really shouldn't fall on him to start with. We spoke with ADTech in China and they verify this is very much a job that Syil should be doing.

Syil, please advise ASAP a proper collection of CNC demo files zipped and ready to be forwarded to our developers for the post.

It has now been five months.

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Originally Posted by scanf

Hi,


We recently had our first X4 factory fit with an ADTech 4840 controller, delivered here in Australia and it seems to be working OK,

For integration with our CAM software we need to build a post processor, and for that we need a full set of standard operating examples for the ADTech 4840 specific to the X4 - standard 2.5 3 and 4 axis demos using all G- M- and canned cycles consistently in a way that can assist development of a proper post proc.

We were assured that there would be no problem to get these, but we gave them our money and the machine was delivered, since then the support from Syil in China has been near zero.

Our local agent has been trying for months to get such a simple collection of demos (they should have tons of these) but instead our local agent has reverted to trying to create some demos himself which has proved problematic for his already busy schedule. But this really shouldn't fall on him to start with. We spoke with ADTech in China and they verify this is very much a job that Syil should be doing.

Syil, please advise ASAP a proper collection of CNC demo files zipped and ready to be forwarded to our developers for the post.

It has now been five months.

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we are also in contact adt supplier,but they also not provide us,i will make call to them by my preson again.then infrom you
i got your emails too.
xushuo
www.syil.com.cn

Hello xushuo,

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we are also in contact adt supplier,but they also not provide us

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First thank you very much for your quick reply, maybe it will help if I clarify what is needed:

1) 2.5 axis examples covering all standard G-codes, hopefully with a CAD drawing to compare to
2) 3 axis examples covering all standard G-codes, hopefully with a CAD drawing to compare to
3) 4 axis examples covering all standard G-codes, hopefully with a CAD drawing to compare to

Realistic scenarios like rough & finishing, tool change, coolant on / off etc that show how to use the machine capabilities correctly. Most of this is industry standard, it would surprise me if you are shipping machines with controllers that you haven't worked with yourselves.


I would appreciate some clarification on this, as I said we have already waited patiently for months. Please advise ASAP.

user manual does not help? posting for fanuc and starting from there?

http://www.adtechcn.com/download/en/...5B-CNC4840.pdf

CAM postprocessors are usually modified by the CAM vendor, provide them with the user manual, all the codes available are there.

Good Luck!

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user manual does not help?

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User manual helps but is not enough. All CAM developers will ask for examples. It shouldn't be rocket science to get them, either.

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posting for fanuc and starting from there?

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Syil wants us to do their job for them? Where's my paycheck for the R&D time? Please refer to previous post re "trial and error". Thanks but no thanks, besides this is not what was promised to us.

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CAM postprocessors are usually modified by the CAM vendor

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You misunderstand my post. We ARE building the CAM processor. But the developers require full g-code examples to finish the job, compare that results meet manufacturer recommendations, test & compare in CAM simulator etc. (this is what professionals do).. and the g-code examples used for comparison & benchmarking are always provided by the machine vendor or duly appointed third party - not the CAM vendor and most certainly not by the customer.

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Good Luck!

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I don't want luck, I want the Syil customer service that we were promised.

Dear CNCmakers,

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as far as I know that most of China CNC systems are similar to Fanuc

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Thanks for the suggestion, but I can't just go by that. Please re-read my previous post. We are working with professional developers, not hobbyists. And at this time I will also repeat to everyone here that the ADT 4840 programming guide not once refers to "fanuc" anywhere in its text.


I am sure Syil China is aware that customers are not to be treated as some kind of "free R&D" department to be left hacking their own ways through complex CNC equipment just to share on forums like this one (no offence, just customer discussions shouldn't be viewed as a substitute for Syil customer service - provided such exists). I am also sure Syil is aware that fulfilling their commitment to provide us comprehensive example files is neither unusual nor unfair, as this is a requirement from all manufacturers for building a proper CAM processor (not a hack).


Guys this isn't asking for the moon. Just a zip-pack of g-code files from the manufacturer "Dear xxx please find our standard X4 demos using factory supplied ADTech 4840 for 2.5 axis 3 axis and 4 axis with CAD drawing at this link..." is all I ask for, nothing even so complex as what many offer without us even asking: DOConWEB - SINUMERIK 840C 11/01 English (Content) Considering the thousands of dollars we just paid for the first machine, and the original promise to supply such example files, I am looking for a cooperative response from Syil.


Still patiently waiting.

Why do I have a feeling this thread is going to be around quite a while?

/popcorn

Probably for the same reason Syil was almost three months late delivering our first machine.

/beer

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Originally Posted by scanf

Hi,

We recently had our first X4 factory fit with an ADTech 4840 controller, delivered here in Australia and it seems to be working OK,

For integration with our CAM software we need to build a post processor, and for that we need a full set of standard operating examples for the ADTech 4840 specific to the X4 - standard 2.5 3 and 4 axis demos using all G- M- and canned cycles consistently in a way that can assist development of a proper post proc.

We were assured that there would be no problem to get these, but we gave them our money and the machine was delivered, since then the support from Syil in China has been near zero.

Our local agent has been trying for months to get such a simple collection of demos (they should have tons of these) but instead our local agent has reverted to trying to create some demos himself which has proved problematic for his already busy schedule. But this really shouldn't fall on him to start with. We spoke with ADTech in China and they verify this is very much a job that Syil should be doing.

Syil, please advise ASAP a proper collection of CNC demo files zipped and ready to be forwarded to our developers for the post.

It has now been five months.

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Not to get anyone off the hook, but simply from a perspective of getting the problem solved...

Are there specific functions or canned cycles you are having trouble with or has the CAM development work not started?

I did a few post processors in my days and, as I recall, the differences between them consisted of 3 things (1) basic syntax such as separators, decimal points, availability of subroutines, notations, etc; (2) what G and M functions were supported vs. which were simply not supported; (3) any peculiarities for the machine such as travel limits, homing positions and such.

Of those (1) and (2) seem to be documented in the manual PEU linked to.

Is there something that is presenting a particular challenge?

(well... other than not receiving the examples :( )

Hi Ed,

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I did a few post processors in my days and, as I recall, the differences between them consisted of 3 things (1) basic syntax such as separators, decimal points, availability of subroutines, notations, etc; (2) what G and M functions were supported vs. which were simply not supported; (3) any peculiarities for the machine such as travel limits, homing positions and such.

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And that's why we ask for examples.

Simply put, we require manufacturer examples to get our own job done right, unless Syil writes us a check for doing their R&D for them. This was also not the agreement.


As to our case, the developers are not co-located with the machine and rely on the manufacturer examples for development, results comparison and testing. As a post developer yourself, you know we always ask for two things: the manual and g-code examples. So far it's actually been ADTech that has supplied us with the first (you can download it direct from their site) but the machine manufacturer responsible (Syil) for generating examples for use on their machine have thus far provided almost zero additional support of their own for this.



Please everyone note now this has become a matter of principle as well. I don't just see this as an issue of “getting one machine working”, but now gradually as a possible ongoing issue in our relationship with this supplier and appperant lack of support? Look, normally new suppliers get tested for proof-of-concept before we approve them for integration in our products. By that logic, Syil should already have at least some various test programs for the ADTech 4840 they would have run as part of their own in-house testing & approval process on their X4. Now I am really wondering..

Normally, CNC manufacturers are happy to help developers who write CAM processors for their machines, I just can't understand this lack of support. Brand new machine too, sad...



Syil please supply the demo / test files as described previously.


/2 beers

Sad support from a company that had potential!

I guess this is one of the reasons why Syil Canada has made their decision to go in another direction. I can say it was Keith's customer support he provided on this forum which is the primary reason for purchasing my X4.

/DP

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Originally Posted by dpaish

Sad support from a company that had potential!

I guess this is one of the reasons why Syil Canada has made their decision to go in another direction. I can say it was Keith's customer support he provided on this forum which is the primary reason for purchasing my X4.

/DP

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we are in working on 2011 model page,and will not longer use any brushless motors.
later keith will update the page soonly too.
we are in changed a lot of things.
2011 model will use frequnce motor with Delta VFD.7~9NM torque..

i don`t want to say to much,later syil web will update all news.

about the program of adt controller,my engineer will contact customer for more details.

DP, can you alaborate on your statement that Keith has decided to go in another direction. He is really the only true support we have for Syil products.
Thx, Len

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Originally Posted by LEN1042

DP, can you alaborate on your statement that Keith has decided to go in another direction. He is really the only true support we have for Syil products.
Thx, Len

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He talks about this, it is news to me too:

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Welcome to Syil Canada / North America
ATTENTION ALL SYIL CUSTOMERS:
Syil Canada / North America are sad to say that we will no longer be an exclusive dealer for Syil China. We currently feel that with all of the current electronic / Spindle electronics issues we are unable to offer our customers reliable support and timely warranty claims due long delays in receiving replacement parts. We have now been waiting for parts / replacement parts for over 3 months, due to component production issues in China.
We do currently have an inventory of machines, but these machines that we have are not salable with their current issues.
Syil Canada / North America has been working very hard to solve this problem internally and has come up with a North American solution to this low torque spindle problem, which is available but at higher cost.
We feel that we need to make this decision before this effects our reliable supply and service reputation that we have worked very hard to earn with our customers.
Syil Canada / North America will continue to support all of our current Syil customers, as well as all current customers that have machines they have purchased or are on order. We currently have inventory of most parts and components that we can service these machines for the foreseeable future, except replacement boards for the current spindle problem.

Our current inventory is going to be converted into full Mach 3 Servo (closed loop) Mills (500 IPM) with full enclosures and 100% North American produced electronics. This will be a more immediate solution and will offer improved Servo based performance and overcome any shortfalls the current machines are encountering.
Please let us know if you are interested in this type of milling machine and we will provide you with details as they become available.
Syil Canada / North America may resume the sales of Syil China machines when the current issues caused by their component supplier is resolved. Until then, we are suspending all future sales of Syil China produced machines.

We would like to personally thank all of our customers that have supported us and purchased hundreds of machines.

By no means are we going away and we have many new and interesting projects to be released very soon.

For all purchases of Syil Machines, please contact Syil America at Syil America, as they are not experiencing any of the same spindle related issues.

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we are in working on 2011 model page,and will not longer use any brushless motors.
later keith will update the page soonly too.
we are in changed a lot of things.
2011 model will use frequnce motor with Delta VFD.7~9NM torque..

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Syil, did you just miss the whole point here? This thread does not really care about the next line of Syil machines that you would like to sell. This thread is about that "Follow through" support you are (not) providing for those machines you have already sold.

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about the program of adt controller,my engineer will contact customer for more details.

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Newsflash: no one from Syil has contacted me yet. But why does an engineer need to contact me about "more details" for just a standard set of demo files for your machine that could easily be made available on your website to begin with? I am really getting scared here - although I more than welcome any chat with your engineer, I can't understand the need for it.

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Keith ... is really the only true support we have for Syil products.

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LEN1042 can you elaborate on this? Would he have the ADTech demo files?




/3 beers

ok,please add my msn: [email protected]

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ok,please add my msn:xushuo@---

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OK did that. You should have a contact request from our affiliate. Just curious now about why the MSN..

Hi guys,

sorry for my delay. It is true that as of current we are suspending sales for the syil product line. These issues we are having are between us and the syil china. I do appolgize, and do not want to cause panic. As i have always stated in all of my previous posts, we will help (try to help) any customers that may be having a problem, please feel free to call us @403-800-3793.
We have not closed up shop, nor are we going anywhere.

if you have any questions please give me a call.

Keith

I sent you an email Keith, if you ever hear me speaking in english you would agree that mail or MSN/Gtalk are the only ways :) :)

syil canada said

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It is true that as of current we are suspending sales for the syil product line. These issues we are having are between us and the syil china. I do appolgize, and do not want to cause panic.

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But Syil said

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..later keith will update the page soonly too.

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That's at least two major Syil resellers now that I know of now with SERIOUS issues with Syil support. And it doesn't sound like the manufacturer is listening to them, either.

Am I screwed here?