Centurion 6 Card Cage Mess

Hopefully someone can help with this - I sent a previous round that seemed to work well with this forum.

I am not a machinist, just helping a friend with his machine. He had a Partner 1 which he updated to a Centurion 6 SBC. After a few years, the electromechanical portion of the Partner puked. There were so many problems, he decided to scrap it. However, he kept the card cage, because it was updated.

He also has a VM16, with the older original control (non-SBC). Originally we tried to update it to accept a network, but he decided it wasn't worth the risk of pulling the simdisk from that controller. Now, he would like to replace the controller with the SBC card cage that he upgraded the Partner with, to gain a bit more capability. However, we found a few problems.

The first problem is with the IO. The IO card ports are different between the Partner 1 and the VM16. I don't believe this is a major issue, as I think we can disassemble the cage and place the new motherboard (SBC) into the VM card cage, and place the IO card into the new main board, eliminating the issue.

If that is the case, will it be simply a case of bringing the system up and replacing the Partner parameters with the VM16 parameters?

Thanks in advance for your help!

I wouldn't just "swap cages and parameters", the file paths will be different for one thing, so it won't even load the cnc software because it will be looking in the wrong place for it. you would probably do well to get up with sportybob , I feel sure he could tell you what files stay, and what files go with respect to the parameters.

This is not that difficult. Even if the VM16 has a cent5 that you want to upgrade, but especially if they are both Cent6 cardcages.

Put the Cent6 SBC cardcage in the VM16. The I/O on the SBC card will run the floppy disk without a problem. You shouldn't need a hard drive; the DiskOnChip or CompactFlash on the SBC card can be large enough to handle most storage, but if you do, there is an IDE connection on the card.

Allen is right, you will have to make some changes to the Path.dat file to correctly address the drive locations.

You can simply key in the parameters from the sheets in the manual for travel limits, etc., but the issue you will have is the need to get the correct hex files for your machine.

The grief to get everything configured is well worth the effort, and the SBC makes networking relatively easy.

I've done lots of these, send me a PM before you start and I can help you get the right set-up.

Changing path isn't an issue - I'm an old DOS geek. My concern is with the physical connections - the Partner utilized round connections to the cage, while the VM utilizes offset row connectors. This is why I thought I had to swap IO boards.

That explains more about the problem. The VM16 must have AC axis motors which does use a different interface than the DC motors.

Just replace the motherboard with the backplane and SBC, it is just a computer after all.

First, save everything from the A: and B: drives.

Remove everything from the cardcage box, including the interface. Plug the NCB card into the backplane to help you locate its position to drill the holes for the standoffs. Mount the backplane, re-install the power supply, the SBC card, etc. You will have to get the keyboard connector converted to the PS2 (miniDIN) size plug, and probably use the serial cables from the old cardcage.

You will need to make changes to the Cent 6 NCB card:

To convert from a daughterboard card to one without:

Pull off the edge jumper J1
Remove the SDII chip
Remove the daughterboard


The NCB DIP switch settings:

1 closed
2 closed
3 closed
4 closed
5 open
6 closed
7 closed
8 closed


Erase the Cent5 files from the DOC/CF chip and load on the Cent6 files you copied earlier.

The path that Allen referred to isn't the path statement in the Autoexec.bat file. There is a file in the RAM directory (path.dat) the control uses that you will need to edit.

Then get the parameters sorted out and you are good to go.

I'll add more if I remember something else.

**disclaimer** Please understand, I have not pulled this apart yet - I am trying to get all the information together and understand it thoroughly before I have to shut his machine down. He also needs a bit of time to get caught up on his machine work, so he can safely shut the machine down for a day or two (in case we have a problem).

Okay, so I'm starting to understand the differences between the Cent5 and Cent6 systems. The Partner evidently had a Cent5, which utilized three different Acroloop cards. The Cent 6 utilized a single NCB (not sure what that acronym is, would someone please define that one for me?) card. Is this correct?

As you said, these are "just" computers (I am assuming you mean that they are all standard Intel based systems), so I am not sure why I am modifying the NCB board. You stated that it is a "daughterboard" setup currently - is this removing the daughterboard and setting it back up to a PCI (or ISA) connection directly into the backplane? Why not continue to use the daughterboard and plug the daughterboard interface into the SBC backplane? (Please understand, I am not arguing, I want to understand). Looking at the current Cent6 in the VM16, that looks to be a standard AT (or ATX) style motherboard. I am less familiar with SBC designs with backplane, but I am assuming that the backplane is purely the connection system for the PCI, ISA, etc connections. Again, if I am wrong, please advise.

In addition, why would I nuke all of the software from the current SBC drive, and replace it with the software from the current Cent6 design? Since the SBC was received from Milltronics long after the manufacture of the VM16, it would seem to me that the software on the SBC system is more up to date (including DOS version). As such, it would seem that it would behoove me to update the drivers on the SBC in config.sys and autoexec to match the NCB, and remove the drivers for the three Acroloop cards. Are there other issues that will come up in doing so?

Please forgive all the questions, and thank you for all the help.

Something else I just thought of - he does have another VM16, which I believe has been updated to an SBC as well. Could I simply take the files from that one and copy them over to this one once it is assembled?

I understand your confusion, my clients usually ask for the 'what' and they don't care so much for the 'why', so here is the long answer.

The Cent5 uses the Acroloop motion control cards, one for each axis, Cent6 uses NCB (Numeric Control Blaster) motion control.

The original Cent5 cardcage used a Simdisk card which stored the MS DOS 3.3 operating system and the CNC control software on read-only EEPROMS and used RAM chips for parameter and programming storage. There is a "sdisk" chip that interupts the normal DOS boot-up process and re-assigns drive letters: the A: drive is the 12 eeproms, the B: drive is the RAM chips, the C: drive is the floppy drive, and the D: drive is the virtual ram drive. The SIMDISKcard has the ability to reformat the RAM "B: drive" and software can be updated by changing the 12 eeprom chips and more RAM chips can usually be added to increase the program storage.

The updated Cent5 cardcage removed the Simdisk card and loaded the OS - DOS 6.22, the control software, the parameters,
and the programs onto the DiskOnChip or CompactFlash chip.

The original Cent6 control has the OS and control software 'burned' on eeproms socketed on the 'daughter' board, later controls replaced the eeproms with flash chips that could be user re-flashed. The Parameters and programs are stored on RAM chips on the NCB card under the daughter board. There is a similar 'sdisk' chip to the one on the C5 simdisk card.

When you update the Cent6, you can leave the OS files but put all the control files on the DOC/CF, so you need to 'disable' that part of the NCB card that was used to re-assign drives and read the daughter board and memory chips.

The Cent5 software uses the control structure for Acroloops so it can't be used with the NCB motion control that the Cent6 control uses.
You want to replace all the C5 files with the ones from the C6 and edit the PATH.DAT file to reflect the new drive locations. When you boot up the first time, watch for error messages. You will also have to edit the Tool Change Macro listing in the Power Parameters to point to its new drive location.


Re: 2nd VM16 - Copying the files is possible but probably not ethical. Call Milltronics, maybe you can get their permission.

Okay - I believe I am starting to understand. My thought with taking the data from the 2nd VM16 was more from a two pronged belief - (1) the setups for the "non-proprietary" data (path.dat, control files, ie non-binary) would be the same, and (2) since the Cent5 had been updated with the latest (at the time) program software - just ported to the Cent5 setup - that it would not be a copyright issue to utilize the Cent6 port from the other machine.

However, you are absolutely right, we should call Milltronics to confirm this (with all the version numbers we have). Worst case, they may charge us a fee to match the Cent6 version to the Cent5 version we have on the current box from the Partner.

For the NCB DIP settings, I have searched for a technical spec for this card to determine what the DIP settings are (what they mean) so I understand what is being changed, however found nothing on the web. Since it seems that Milltronics has not used any proprietary card designs anywhere else on their machines, I find this odd. Any idea where I can find this data?

*edit* One other question - is NCB a PCI or ISA card? Something that may be easier than creating custom risers for the backplane may simply be going with a PCI or ISA riser cable. Then, everything fits where it simply belongs.

Now I'm confused by your question.

The NCB card is an ISA slot card.
You mount an ISA backplane.
You plug in the ISA SBC card.
You plug in the ISA NCB card.
Configure everything.

I don't understand the need for you to be "creating custom risers" since there isn't anything else that plugs into the backplane.

Sorry, my mistake - custom standoffs to fit the backplane at the right height (and position) to the NCB card.

I was hoping that it was a PCI card - so it really didn't matter where the backplane was in relation to the NCB card. They make PCI extension cables (they are also called riser cables) which give you the capability to place a PCI card wherever you choose.

Unfortunately, there isn't an ISA extension cable (or riser cable) made. I just thought it would make the physical swap easier.

I usually have extra standoffs left over when I replace a motherboard with the backplane. I put the card in a slot to help locate the card in the support strip at the top of the cardcage near the fan and the clamping screw at the bottom. Then I can mark the holes that I have to drill in the back.


I found my note on the Cent6 dip switch settings:

Dip switch settings on Cent6 NCB board.

Switch 1 Open - SIM daughter disabled Enabled - SIM daughter enabled
Switch 2 N/A
Switch 3 N/A
Switch 4 N/A
Switch 5 Ram used Open - 6 chips Closed - 2 chips
Switch 6 Memory used Open - more than 360k Closed - less than 360k
Switch 7 N/A
Switch 8 N/A
Switch 9 N/A

Since you won't be using the daughterboard or the memory on the NCB board, only Switch 1 needs to be changed.

Got it - thanks. Now just to get some machine time completed so I can get him changed over. That may take a couple weeks, but keep your eyes open. I'm sure there will be a hiccup of something unexpected.

Thanks for all your help!