Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direction

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Originally Posted by jxdxwx

Ok, so IF my drives dont need proper inverting then I need to wire it like this ....

PIN 1 - A - to STEP
PIN 2 - A - TO GROUND
PIN 3 - (NC)
PIN 4 - B - to DIRECTION
PIN 5 - B - to GROUND
PIN 6 - (CABLE SHIELD ?)
PIN 7 - (NC)
PIN 8 - I - to ENABLE
PIN 9 - I - to GROUND

Ithe they do need proper inverting and will not work with Mach3, what is my next step?
Is there a peice of hardware that will allow the interface?
Could you take a look at my manual and tell me one way or another?

some of the servostar amps can do step and direction OR quadrature encoder feedback, but not both at the same time.
Is 'quadrature encoder feedback' something that I need to look into?
What is it?

As I mentioned before my servos are using resolvers and I see that Mach3 does not like resolvers.
However my drives have an output port for encoder compatible feedback. Does that help my case?

Thank you. No Fish

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resolvers are fine. I missed that part. the drive closes the loop, mach 3 is "blind". what I meant was if your motors has incremental quadrature encoders, you could not use step and direction at the same time. but you don't need to worry about that. the only drawback to the resolver is that they can be somewhat low resolution. my siemens resolver isn't bad though, roughly equivalent to about 2000 steps per turn (10 arc minute precision).

if the drive wants true differential, I do not know if there is any easy way of dealing with that. i know machmotion made a little adapter for the Mitsubishi drives.

"if the drive wants true differential, I do not know if there is any easy way of dealing with that."

My manuals are located at the beginning of this thread. Could you look at them and see, or could you help me with where to look?

Thanks a million!!!

John

jxdxwx,
First of all, why are you showing a Gecko stepper drive in your circuit ? OMG,That would surely BLOW the inputs to the Servostar !

You may need to add an Differential interface driver such as a AM26C31 to properly drive the A A_, B,B_ inputs.
AM26C31CN Texas Instruments | 296-6783-5-ND | DigiKey

You only should need the Step and Direction signals. You may not need the enable, because your drive is probably using an other input for the enable.
The step and dir outputs on the bob, go to the inputs on the AM26C31, and the differential outputs of the AM26C31 go to the A A_,B B_ inputs on the servostar.
The chip can be powered by the same 5volts that is powering the breakout board (from a USB cable) .

You will need to configure the Servostar for 5volt Step/Dir, (not 24 volt Step/dir), probably through software.

>>some of the servostar amps can do step and direction OR quadrature encoder feedback, but not both at the same time.
>>Is 'quadrature encoder feedback' something that I need to look into? What is it?
No , it doesn't apply to what you are doing. Its when the drive uses a shaft encoder on a machine to give the drive pulses to run a servomotor at a different speed (electronic gearing)


>>As I mentioned before my servos are using resolvers and I see that Mach3 does not like resolvers.
>>However my drives have an output port for encoder compatible feedback. Does that help my case?
Mach 3 has nothing to do with the encoder at all. It just gives its position as a step/dir count and the drive (servo or stepper) takes care of the rest. Do not connect any wires back to mach3 to try to read an position device (encoder of resolver)

Larry K

Larry,

"First of all, why are you showing a Gecko stepper drive in your circuit ? OMG,That would surely BLOW the inputs to the Servostar !
I don't actually have a gecko drive, the illustration is just a visual representation of what I'm hearing from the mach3 hobbyists from
all over the web that are trying to help. I felt as passionately as you that it was wrong. Sorry, I thought I had explained that.

You may need to add an Differential interface driver such as a AM26C31 to properly drive the A A_, B,B_ inputs.
Do I need to? (you know my drives better than me)

You only should need the Step and Direction signals. You may not need the enable, because your drive is probably using an other input for the enable.
But if so, would there be anything wrong with using the enable from this connector instead?

The step and dir outputs on the bob, go to the inputs on the AM26C31, and the differential outputs of the AM26C31 go to the A A_,B B_ inputs on the servostar.
The chip can be powered by the same 5volts that is powering the breakout board (from a USB cable) .
If so, is a quick schematic something you can help with?

You will need to configure the Servostar for 5volt Step/Dir, (not 24 volt Step/dir), probably through software."
Is this still IF I need to use this chip?
And what software? Mach3?

Thanks Larry!

"First of all, why are you showing a Gecko stepper drive in your circuit ? OMG,That would surely BLOW the inputs to the Servostar !
I don't actually have a gecko drive, the illustration is just a visual representation of what I'm hearing from the mach3 hobbyists from
all over the web that are trying to help. I felt as passionately as you that it was wrong. Sorry, I thought I had explained that.
OK,the person that gave you that, may have done it as a joke


You may need to add an Differential interface driver such as a AM26C31 to properly drive the A A_, B,B_ inputs.
Do I need to? (you know my drives better than me)
You can try the way IHNF said first, but pro drives like that prefer differential.

You only should need the Step and Direction signals. You may not need the enable, because your drive is probably using an other input for the enable.
But if so, would there be anything wrong with using the enable from this connector instead?
Adding too may enables without understanding exactly how Mach3 controls them can create more problems that solutions. Why do you want Mach3 to enable the servo drive ?

The step and dir outputs on the bob, go to the inputs on the AM26C31, and the differential outputs of the AM26C31 go to the A A_,B B_ inputs on the servostar.
The chip can be powered by the same 5volts that is powering the breakout board (from a USB cable) .
If so, is a quick schematic something you can help with?
Go to the Digikey link i posted and download the PDF DataSheet on the chip. You will need a perf board (from radioshack) to mount it on. use an IC socket.

You will need to configure the Servostar for 5volt Step/Dir, (not 24 volt Step/dir), probably through software."
Is this still IF I need to use this chip?
And what software? Mach3?
No, the Kolmorgan setup software

Larry

the enable isn't really a signal and it doesn't come from mach3. it usually comes from the break out board. its basically the on/off switch if you will. in theory just put 5v to I+ and ground I-. you need to do this in the order the drive expects it though. it may want it after its been powered, as opposed to at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ihavenofish

the enable isn't really a signal and it doesn't come from mach3. it usually comes from the break out board. its basically the on/off switch if you will. in theory just put 5v to I+ and ground I-. you need to do this in the order the drive expects it though. it may want it after its been powered, as opposed to at the same time.

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It usually comes from the charge pump on the bob. When you hit the Estop button on the Mach3 screen it drops the chargepump signal and the enable would go low.


IHNF, that AMS resolver.. is that $15 for the whole resolver or just the sensor chip ? I didn't see complete resolvers on the site. Interesting though.

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Originally Posted by Larken

IHNF, that AMS resolver.. is that $15 for the whole resolver or just the sensor chip ? I didn't see complete resolvers on the site. Interesting though.

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they have a miniature demoboard for it - im talking the as5047d for my specific needs. the board is $15 and the magnet is $1 or so. its not in an industrial package, but pretty easy to use. they also do linear ones for the same price.

you do have to program them first. so if you want halls plus quadrature you program it for that via SPI. its all explained in the datasheet. each mode has different features. you can access 14 bit absolute position via SPI. I think the quadrature is 12 bit (4096 edges) on that one.

"the enable isn't really a signal and it doesn't come from mach3. it usually comes from the break out board. its basically the on/off switch if you
will. in theory just put 5v to I+ and ground I-. you need to do this in the order the drive expects it though. it may want it after its been powered,
as opposed to at the same time."

The machine currently has the enable connected through a relay activated by a 'START' button and deactivated by a couple of 'E-STOP' buttons.
However it also ran thru my previous controller and only allowed enable if certain conditions were met.
So should I just leave it as-is and not connect enable to mach3 at all?

What do you guys think about using ESS Ethernet Smooth Stepper connected directly to screw terminals to operate the servo drives?

Just to connect thru Ethernet and get the processing off of the PC. Plus I may need a lot of I/Os for my machine. My understanding is
that (ESS) is just an unfortunate name for a decent little motion controller. Is there a reason I should not try it that way?

I'm very new to Mach3, but pretty much understand what it does. Don't know what goes where on servo drives yet.
Just trying to figure out how to connect my machine.

Just to be clear I am still completely lost on how to connect 'AM26C31 to properly drive the A A_, B,B_ inputs.'
I do understand that I will have to put it on a perf board from radio shack. What I don't understand is electronic
engineering, as in what pins go to what pins. The datasheet may be clear to you guys that know which end is
up. But not clear to me AT ALL. Also not completely clear if I even need the AM26C31 or not.

BTW is LARKEN and IHAVENOFISH the same person?

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Originally Posted by jxdxwx

BTW is LARKEN and IHAVENOFISH the same person?

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now im just offended.

Just notice both are from Canada, both joined in 2007. Plus not one of you guys have mentioned
Tim Hortons, Mooses, Hockey or Donuts. Whats that all aboot? And is it too much for me to believe
that Canada has two smart guys such as yourselves in one small area?

But mainly because you guys are alternately helping me but not at the same time on most subjects.
Seriously though, it was just a question. Didn't mean to offend. Please don't take it that way.

one small area.... you do know Canada is the largest country in the world right? also the richest. smartest. best looking. best in bed....

um, hat were we talking about?

Yes, I know most of those things. I will probably be jumping your border soon if the leader that our pets and dead relatives voted in office continues
his assault on our constitution. Then I learn the rest of those things once I get there.

We were here ------->"the enable isn't really a signal and it doesn't come from mach3. it usually comes from the break out board. its basically
the on/off switch if you will. in theory just put 5v to I+ and ground I-. you need to do this in the order the drive expects it though. it may want it
after its been powered, as opposed to at the same time."

The machine currently has the enable connected through a relay activated by a 'START' button and deactivated by a couple of 'E-STOP' buttons.
However it also ran thru my previous controller and only allowed enable if certain conditions were met.
So should I just leave it as-is and not connect enable to mach3 at all?

What do you guys think about using ESS Ethernet Smooth Stepper connected directly to screw terminals to operate the servo drives?

Just to connect thru Ethernet and get the processing off of the PC. Plus I may need a lot of I/Os for my machine. My understanding is
that (ESS) is just an unfortunate name for a decent little motion controller. Is there a reason I should not try it that way?

I'm very new to Mach3, but pretty much understand what it does. Don't know what goes where on servo drives yet.
Just trying to figure out how to connect my machine.

Just to be clear I am still completely lost on how to connect 'AM26C31 to properly drive the A A_, B,B_ inputs.'
I do understand that I will have to put it on a perf board from radio shack. What I don't understand is electronic
engineering, as in what pins go to what pins. The datasheet may be clear to you guys that know which end is
up. But not clear to me AT ALL. Also not completely clear if I even need the AM26C31 or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jxdxwx1579748

BTW is LARKEN and IHAVENOFISH the same person?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ihavenofish

now im just offended.

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Ha..no i don't think so. You can do a search and see we don't always agree on things,lol

But i do like Tim Hortons new dark roast coffee, Mooses, not so much.

First, throw out post 18 pix - you show TWO drives interconnected. you will not be using that stepper drive shown in red.

attached is wiring diagram for ANY S or CD drive to Mach3.

I show dotted lines on A- & B- as my recollection of using step/dir is the minus sides have to held 1/2 way from 0 and 5vdc; hence a divider resistor network to hold at 2.5v

Manual pix attached does not show that but I think it is for simplicity. So wire first leaving those dotted lines OFF; if it does not work then add them. Tying them to 0 vdc does not work.


enable input is on connector C3. Also on C3 is fault output RELAY that you should eventually wire to mach 3 board so it knows if drive has a fault.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jxdxwx

What do you guys think about using ESS Ethernet Smooth Stepper connected directly to screw terminals to operate the servo drives?

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Do this and I can sell you a replacement S series drive as the one you have will have let a LOT of magic smoke out and will not work any longer.

Kilroy,

You are a rockstar! Thank you for the cartoons. That should help a great deal.

I do understand not to use the Gecko Stepper Drive, I was just illustrating
my frustration to this point with the Mach3 community as they just don't seem
to get servo drives and how to connect them. I was NOT going to attempt that.

However, on to a different subject. You seem to be passionate about advising
against me wanting to use an ESS Smooth Stepper board as my motion
controller. Why?

I was wanting to connect my machine thru Ethernet and get the processing
off of the PC. Plus I will need more I/Os for my machine than a typical router.
ESS has 51 I/Os.

My understanding is the ESS is just an unfortunate name for a decent
driveless motion controller. Not a driver by any means. How would it hurt
the drives?

Thank you!

John

ha!

I have no clue even what an ESS smoth stepper board is so cannot advise anything about it. I just was point out what you obviously already knew - not to hook a stepper motor driver high voltage output into my little drives 5vdc max encoder inputs. I understand ur frustration and reason for the pix now :)

I now very little about mach3 but think it does all the motion control stuff already for you in software so I did not think there was any need for anything else other than their software and a BOB thing. shows MY ignorance I am sure!

Ok, I will do some investigating on it before I do anything crazy.

In the meantime, My next hurdle will be wiring a 10hp colombo
spindle, Believe it is Fuji controller. Also has a pretty good sized
braking resistor, mech. brake and tool change/air blow solenoids.

May end up creating an arduino type project for the tool changer
carousel, release, air blow & brake etc.. process & timing.

And.. all that PLUS, my machine has two identical tables. So I
will need to figure out how to select, alternate and slave control
the tables.

But understanding that first thing is first, i just need to make one
table, a gantry and a spindle move. The rest can be manual until
I figure out what I am doing.

If you have ANY input on any of that nonsense I am all ears also.

Thank you Kilroy!

John
Dallas Texas

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Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy

ha!

I have no clue even what an ESS smoth stepper board is so cannot advise anything about it. I just was point out what you obviously already knew - not to hook a stepper motor driver high voltage output into my little drives 5vdc max encoder inputs. I understand ur frustration and reason for the pix now :)

I now very little about mach3 but think it does all the motion control stuff already for you in software so I did not think there was any need for anything else other than their software and a BOB thing. shows MY ignorance I am sure!

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a smooth stepper is a fancy parallel port emulator. usually connected by usb to the host pc with mach3. it outputs identical signals to the regular mach3 parallel port, so it would change nothing in this scenario.

mach3 and emc etc output single ended 5v signals. that's all that's "special" about them compared to typical industrial gear which use 5v differential signals for noise resistance. my parker drives happily accept both with no middle man equipment. I guess what you are saying here is that the kollmorgen need something in between - though im not sure ive understrood your drawing.