3 phase VMC running on 1 phase and VFD for spindle.

From what i have read, a 3 phase cnc uses 3 phase for the motor and single phase for the electronics.

I need to run my BP TC22 on single phase. I have been looking for the best way to run my vmc on single phase. A PP is out of the question.

It looks as though a VFD would be best to convert my 1phase to 3phase but from what i understand its not great for the electronics side.

So my question is.... can i wire my machine to use single phase for the electronics and use a vfd for the 1phase to 3phase needs?

If so do I just need a vfd with matching hp as my spindle?

Thanks for any help.

I aquired this machine (bridgeport torqu cut 22) without any manuals or paper work. If anyone has these they could email me it would be much appreciated.
[email protected]

dbtoutfit

You can only use a VFD for spindle control, it can not power anything else in your machine, a TC22 depending on what year it was made, may already have a VFD for your spindle motor, which will run on 230V AC Single phase

You use another small VFD to run the coolant pump

Your best to run these machines on 230V AC single phase is a Phase Perfect control, they cost a lot, but are the best to power CNC machines, you can then just run it on the 3 phase control, & change nothing in the machine

Electrical Phase Converters Models & Ratings, Digital Phase Converter

If you do run a phase perfect or RPC type, it is important to make sure the 1 phase is off of the 240v 1 phase pair that is passed right through on a P.P. or RPC.
Personally I prefer the VFD and single phase for the control where possible.
Al.

Al_The_Man

You don't have that problem with the Phase Perfect, on how it is wired, most of these Bridgeport machine TC22 don't like the Rotary Phase converters no matter how you wire them, it's best not to use them on this machine

The Phase Perfect is the only Digital Phase Converter I have seen that will run anything without any problems, including medical equipment, plus they are very efficient to run

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al_The_Man

If you do run a phase perfect or RPC type, it is important to make sure the 1 phase is off of the 240v 1 phase pair that is passed right through on a P.P. or RPC.
Personally I prefer the VFD and single phase for the control where possible.
Al.

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So I can wire my electronics to run off single phase and then wire my spindles current vfd to run on single phase too?

As i said before a PP aka Phase Perfect is out of the question. Not paying 5gs for a PP.

dbtoutfit

You will have to be very careful how you do the wiring, the VFD is no problem, your drives are DC if you can still use the transformers, it may not be so bad to do, you will need another small VFD for the coolant pump, if it is a 3 phase unit

Most people that do this end up smoking the bmdc board, which are spendy to replace, we still have some of these boards in stock, we also have the VFD drives for that machine new in stock

As for the Phase Perfect worth every cent, I have 100 A model

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

You don't have that problem with the Phase Perfect, on how it is wired,

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The P.P. still creates the 3rd phase electronically, the 240v 1ph supply is passed directly through for two of the phases, (Re: P.P. documentation) so IMO this is the pair I would use for the control if I personally were to implement it.
Al.

I spent some time looking at the installed VFD over and it looks as though its 3ph 208 input according to the front face. So looks like my dream of using the internal VFD to do my 1 to 3 phase conversion is shot.
I did notice there is 3 transformers. (1) 120v to 24v (2) 460v to 120v (3) 460v to Multi outputs no idea for what.

Plan "A"
I wanted to run 120v bypass the 460 to 120 transformer so the electronics would receive (clean) power. (Cause VFD not good for electronics is my understanding)
Then use a "external" VFD to convert the 1 to 3phase straight into the mains in the back of the machine. I thought this would be A) cheaper than a RPC and B) more efficient power consumption wise.

Plan "B"
Am I just making things more complicated? Should I just use a 15hp RPC and call it a day?

Maybe when I start making some real money from the machine I will consider a PP but right now its just a toy. Dropping 5gs at Xmas time tends to make the wifey frown.

dbtoutfit

You can not run a machine from a VFD, we have already said this in other posts, so connecting a VFD to the machines main power input, you will see lots of smoked/melted parts, you also can not power a VFD by using another VFD for the Supply, there will be lots of damage to VFD in the machine, & they are spendy to replace or repair

I also have said a RPC is not a good choice for these TC22 machines,& are very inefficient, some have had luck with them, but most do not, if your machine is in good shape then it is worth setting up with a good power supply, or it will cost you more in repairs/parts than a PP will cost you

If you can find a wiring diagram/print of the main power supply, then you could figure out how to use 240V & 120v single phase power for your supply

The VFD in your machine can run on 230V single phase

If this is similar to the B.P. series 2 Interact2 there has been quite a few previous posts on wiring the 1ph portions on to the 240v pair.
Including schematics.
Al.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al_The_Man

If this is similar to the B.P. series 2 Interact2 there has been quite a few previous posts on wiring the 1ph portions on to the 240v pair.
Including schematics.
Al.

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They are a totally different machine, & not so easy to do this to

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

dbtoutfit

You can not run a machine from a VFD, we have already said this in other posts, so connecting a VFD to the machines main power input, you will see lots of smoked/melted parts, you also can not power a VFD by using another VFD for the Supply, there will be lots of damage to VFD in the machine, & they are spendy to replace or repair

I also have said a RPC is not a good choice for these TC22 machines,& are very inefficient, some have had luck with them, but most do not, if your machine is in good shape then it is worth setting up with a good power supply, or it will cost you more in repairs/parts than a PP will cost you

If you can find a wiring diagram/print of the main power supply, then you could figure out how to use 240V & 120v single phase power for your supply

The VFD in your machine can run on 230V single phase

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Thanks, I was unclear about the vfd details but i understand now cant use both.

So i need to find a schematic for my machine and wire it for 120 single phase for the electronics and 240 single phase for the vfd. How much will the spindle suffer from doing this if at all.

So if i run a RPC I prob fry something? or if I rewire for single phase I prob fry something?

Sorry just double checking.

Thanks.

dbtoutfit

Either way can work, just have to make the right choices, when changing wiring, Yaskawa says you will loose around 50% for derating when you run there 3 phase VFD on single phase, I have done it many time & have never seen a 50% lose in motor performance

If you get a RPC make sure it is CNC rated

I got the machine up on single but the VFD errors F-602 (because its missing 3rd phase)
Do I need to rewire the VFD some how?
If so... how, I cant find anything on the internet or manual.
Varispeed 626VM3C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbtoutfit

I got the machine up on single but the VFD errors F-602 (because its missing 3rd phase)
Do I need to rewire the VFD some how?
If so... how, I cant find anything on the internet or manual.
Varispeed 626VM3C

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Did you wire it L1 & L2 for the 240v ac input

Yes and then jumped L1 to L3 to feed both T1 and T2 circuit. (Leftside/Rightside) Ground to Ground in panel.

(Turn head to the Left for picture)

dbtoutfit

What you have done could cause a dead short, you can not supply power like you have, you can not make 3 Phase from the 230 V single Phase like this

For the VFD you need to supply 230V AC single phase to the R & S terminals, you will have to remove the third wire from the T terminal, you will do some damage if you don't get this right

This is as simple as bringing in 230 or 240V single phase(split phase actually), to the VFD. Put L1(Black) on 1 leg of the VFD and L2(White Or Red whatever) on another leg of the VFD, leaving the third leg unwired or open.
The remainder of the machine runs on single phase 115V or 120V depending on where you live. In Canada it's 240V. Most of the US is 230V.

The way you have it in the picture is looking for trouble and smoke. It's not rocket science. The VFD will derate itself as the amperage of the 230-240V incoming into the VFD will be more than it was originally designed for and will fault.

I had "help". I think the idea was my friend was just trying to get the Left and Right side Hot. Since they both share L2 but use L1 and L3 separately.
Fortunately I didnt see anything pop, smoke or smell.

Here is the Schematic. I could prob figure this out on my own but I am nervous as all hell about it and would just feel better if some guru would tell me what to what, not nervous about rewiring though once I know what to rewire.
Feel free to print screen schematic from pdf and use paint to draw and send me the altered version of the schematic.

BTW all is unhooked from the breaker.

Eric

Here is what I suggest. Attachment 261518

The Red X means you don't have the third leg of a three phase system. Compare this schematic to your original, you'll get the idea.
Remember, ground is VERY IMPORTANT

In your schematic, I take it that spindle drive means Yaskawa VFD.