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My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Hey guys,
I am going to use this thread to chronicle my Gingery inspired lathe.
Initially it was going to be a pure gingery lathe.
After doing more research, I was inspired to deviate a bit from the original plans.
I felt that I could do this a smarter and easier way.
I am copying this guy's concept for the bed (using steel tubing for the bed): Lathe
I am taking that a step further. My source of aluminum was a scrapped aluminum block Trans-AM engine from the mid 90s.
It appears that the steel (or cast iron?) Crankshaft supports are the same width as my tubes, which together equal the width of a cast gingery bed.
If anyone has any ideas for how I could recycle my Cast Iron crankshaft to fabricate parts I am all ears. I also still have some of the steel piston heads. The rods are mostly bent I believe. This was from a blown engine.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I had another thought on this, which is at some point to fill the tubing itself with epoxy granite.
When I compare the supports to the original legs It makes me wonder if I should perhaps change things around. My thought was to drill into those nibs and use those parts as the bolt down points.
I do have an extra one of those supports left. Since I can't make it a pair, perhaps I could put that half way between the ends and turn it sideways? I have a bit of extra steel flat I could cover that arch with, or I could turn that one upside down. Or perhaps I might just keep things as is and use that extra support for something else int he build
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Hello AxelFoley,
You will save yourself a lot of work going this route as far as pattern making and casting goes, but there will be other work related to the modifications. I have made the Gingery lathe, milling machine, metal shape, and leaf brake and I deviated from the original plans in some areas with those builds but basically cast all the parts except for some of the smaller aluminum brackets/supports etc. The Gingery machines have been very handy to have and even now that I have built 2 CNC machines and started my 3D printer build those Gingery manual machines come in so handy for simple machining and finishing of cast parts. Keep your build going and stay motivated, and keep us informed on your progress!!
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
Hello AxelFoley,
You will save yourself a lot of work going this route as far as pattern making and casting goes, but there will be other work related to the modifications. I have made the Gingery lathe, milling machine, metal shape, and leaf brake and I deviated from the original plans in some areas with those builds but basically cast all the parts except for some of the smaller aluminum brackets/supports etc. The Gingery machines have been very handy to have and even now that I have built 2 CNC machines and started my 3D printer build those Gingery manual machines come in so handy for simple machining and finishing of cast parts. Keep your build going and stay motivated, and keep us informed on your progress!!
Wood working is such a pain in the ass. I always mess it up by a hair. If I can cut that down I will be quite happy.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
Hello AxelFoley,
You will save yourself a lot of work going this route as far as pattern making and casting goes, but there will be other work related to the modifications. I have made the Gingery lathe, milling machine, metal shape, and leaf brake and I deviated from the original plans in some areas with those builds but basically cast all the parts except for some of the smaller aluminum brackets/supports etc. The Gingery machines have been very handy to have and even now that I have built 2 CNC machines and started my 3D printer build those Gingery manual machines come in so handy for simple machining and finishing of cast parts. Keep your build going and stay motivated, and keep us informed on your progress!!
Got any links to your builds? Ideas are always welcome :)
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Well just about all work with most materials can be a pain in the butt, but once you put some time into finding what works you may find it can have its rewards as well. I like having the Gingery manual machines for the basic machining as it does not take programming and special set ups to get something done(except for my limitations due to not having chucks etc) The thing about the Gingery projects is he will walk you through it all and gives excellent tips on ways to get it done. The other thing about the wood patterns is they do not have to be 'precise' so to speak because there is normally some finish work to get the required areas within tolerance. Just the closer you get the casting the less material to machine(or file and scrape off) All of the skills, tips and ideas presented in the series come in handy when you apply them to future work so it is like and investment into your capabilities. Breaking things down into smaller, simpler steps is one of the principles that comes in very handy with these builds and I apply those same principles to the other things I have made and regular projects. I have my first CNC build posted here on the zone and also my larger 48" x 60" CNC router is under I believe 'concrete base idea' for new machine build.
I think I posted the Gingery builds to a Gingery Yahoo group but am not sure since I have not been to that group in some time
I will have to find the links and post them here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...ml#post1615690
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...01387-cnc.html
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I think that was my problem, i was taking great pains to get the wooden patterns exactly right
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Well I do precision sheet metal for an occupation so I am used to holding fairly tight tolerances with my work, but you can get good results just keeping the dimensions of the patterns within a fraction of an inch(say within 1/32" ) measuring with a tape measure or scale. Keep in mind the shrinkage rate for aluminum which Dave Gingery teaches in his book(about 1/8" per foot f I remember right) For me to make it easier to figure the sizes of the pattern parts with a scale factor and multiply the sizes by that factor, and although you can make a shrink rule equivalent to use when you measure I just found it easier to work with the scale factor. [12.125 divided by 12=1.0104] and that is the factor you can use to figure the sizes with shrinkage included. Another thing that may help checking the dimensions is a set of calipers, but that will be more evident when you get to the metal machining etc.
I have all the patterns for the 3 machines stored in boxes, and I had thought of making a set of drawings for them all in a .dxf format so they could be CNC machined but am not sure if that would be OK with the Gingery's or if anyone would even be interested. Probably the people with a CNC would not be so interested in manual machines but for myself they do come in handy for simple machining.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
I have all the patterns for the 3 machines stored in boxes, and I had thought of making a set of drawings for them all in a .dxf format so they could be CNC machined but am not sure if that would be OK with the Gingery's or if anyone would even be interested. Probably the people with a CNC would not be so interested in manual machines but for myself they do come in handy for simple machining.
Hell yeah there'd be lot's of people interested in that Wes! I would also suspect that there possibly may not be any issues with the Gingery's, as anybody who was interested in them would already have the books! I know I bought the separate volumes, and then last xmas got the whole set in a beautifully bound volume off the missus. I suppose even if they were only made available to book owners?
I love my cnc machine, but there's still something about manual machines, especially a shaper, that is something to behold. I have longed after a shaper for years, and plan to build the Gingery one when possible.
I actually picked up a fairly heavy duty Festo linear actuator off a mate very similar to the link below, that I thought would be perfect for a Gingery lathe type build.
FESTO PNEUMATIC LINEAR ACTUATOR DGPL-25-418PPVA NNB , Concepts Industrial Online
cheers, Ian
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aarggh
Hell yeah there'd be lot's of people interested in that Wes! I would also suspect that there possibly may not be any issues with the Gingery's, as anybody who was interested in them would already have the books! I know I bought the separate volumes, and then last xmas got the whole set in a beautifully bound volume off the missus. I suppose even if they were only made available to book owners?
I love my cnc machine, but there's still something about manual machines, especially a shaper, that is something to behold. I have longed after a shaper for years, and plan to build the Gingery one when possible.
I actually picked up a fairly heavy duty Festo linear actuator off a mate very similar to the link below, that I thought would be perfect for a Gingery lathe type build.
FESTO PNEUMATIC LINEAR ACTUATOR DGPL-25-418PPVA NNB , Concepts Industrial Online
cheers, Ian
Seconded. I would be highly interested.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Ok, so I just finished "cooking" my crank case supports to get all the oil out. I tried to braze the mounts together when I noticed oil would seep out of the pores.
I left it in my foundry for 30 minutes or so to draw out and burn off the oil.
I don't have/can't afford a welder, so I'm hoping silver solder would be sufficient to hold it together, at least until this is bolted down to some sort of base.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I don't think it is necessary to bond them together, and they will need to be attached to the tubing any way right? I think I would just drill and tap them so the tubing could be bolted to them. What are you planning to use for the bed ways? The original machine uses .25" x 3.00" CRS flat bar, and the bed needs to be bolted to the tubing also. Just thinking it may not be needed to solder/weld those.
On the drawings for the Gingery projects I would probably work on one machine at a time.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
I don't think it is necessary to bond them together, and they will need to be attached to the tubing any way right? I think I would just drill and tap them so the tubing could be bolted to them. What are you planning to use for the bed ways? The original machine uses .25" x 3.00" CRS flat bar, and the bed needs to be bolted to the tubing also. Just thinking it may not be needed to solder/weld those.
On the drawings for the Gingery projects I would probably work on one machine at a time.
Ah, that makes sense. I was going to try to have a bolt going through everything, which is hard to do if everything isn't secured together. I suppose I will pick up a tap set and work it that way.
I think I will stick with the CRS for the ways.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
CRS is readily available in most areas and the price is reasonable as well. With the aluminum cross slide it should last a very long time. I believe I finished my Gingery lathe back in 1987 and it has served me very well with not much wear; I think I have re-shimmed it once or twice. I attached a pic of my G-Lathe.
Attachment 261992
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Ian, here is a pic of my Gingery metal shaper. It is basically all done per the book except some of the brackets etc. that is opted to make from scraps I had to avoid the time of casting. I have not begun to tap into the capabilities of a shaper but am sure when I have the need it will get it done. I like the automatic feed and it frees me up to do some other things while it is running.
Attachment 261996
Attachment 261994
Attachment 261998
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
That looks beautiful. I was wondering whether I would bother with the shaper but I figure I might as well get it done too. I will have a lot of spare aluminum left over.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
What a fantastic job Wes!
I don't know what it is but out of all the machines and tools available, I think the shaper, even though it's outdated now, is the most fascinating machine for me. I could really enjoy just chilling in the workshop with a beer, watching the shaper just grind away!
I'm thinking that when I finally get around to one, I might make it a little smaller scale, as it's the action of it working that I love, not actually getting machining done so much.
If I build it small enough, it can have pride of place right next to my miniature Manson lathe!
cheers, Ian
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
aarggh: Here is a video that is right up your alley then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtaBNLybRtc
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I ran across this recently, makes me reconsider building this instead:
MultiMachine | Open Source Machine Tools
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Yeah, I have the MultiMachine plans and was impressed with the capacity that could be gained by using the engine block but I have not done anything with the plans other than look through them. I was contemplating that build or perhaps a modified version but have not seen the need for pursuing it. It is all really relative to what you want to accomplish in the end and what you feel is going to get you there with the least resistance. The Gingery series of DIY machines will teach you a lot if you work through it, but you will most likely learn things with the multimachine build too. Myself, I have used pattern making, sand molding, and casting aluminum a lot since I finished working on the machines and it enables doing things that are very difficult if not impossible to do with other fabrication techniques.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
Yeah, I have the MultiMachine plans and was impressed with the capacity that could be gained by using the engine block but I have not done anything with the plans other than look through them. I was contemplating that build or perhaps a modified version but have not seen the need for pursuing it. It is all really relative to what you want to accomplish in the end and what you feel is going to get you there with the least resistance. The Gingery series of DIY machines will teach you a lot if you work through it, but you will most likely learn things with the multimachine build too. Myself, I have used pattern making, sand molding, and casting aluminum a lot since I finished working on the machines and it enables doing things that are very difficult if not impossible to do with other fabrication techniques.
Oh, It is on my to-do list. However, for the sake of goal accomplishment I am sticking with and completing this project before moving on to the next one.
Old cast Iron blocks can be found for pretty cheap, as can the engine stand. You could build a pretty large machine with a relatively small amount of money.
I must say, Medium Density Fiberboard is SUPERIOR for pattern making. I just discovered that, so I thought I would share.
I'm busy working on tapping those holes and making patterns. Looks like the wrench included with the harbor freight kit isn't up to the task. I bought their more expensive one, but it's chuck broke. Took it back and got refund. Might get something better somewhere else. (This looks pretty good: Amazon.com: Lisle LI70500 Tap Socket Set: Automotive )
I did happen to find some free solid polished granite off craigslist.
2 pieces, both 3/4 inch thick. one is 17x13.5", the other is 17x15". I'm wondering if I could use those in some way that would be beneficial.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I've lost count of how many times I've watched that shaper video, so cool.
MDF is the bee's knee's for machining, but be careful of the dust, it's full of chemicals and is extremely hazardous for your health. Loads of cases of illness and long term respiratory problems with people machining it, partly also as the dust is amazingly fine at times and really gets in everywhere.
cheers, Ian
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Ok, well I just did my carriage casting. looks like i was just a tad short on the total amount of metal needed.
I'm thinking that instead of redoing this, i might just melt some pennies down or fill in the gaps with some epoxy and just roll with it.
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Alrighty, well that only cost me 12 cents. Cheaper than the fuel to try to do another casting.
Let's hope that holds up well.
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More work and grinding revealed more defects with the casting. At this point I think it would be less work just to cast again and not make the mistakes i made previously.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
what is your casting process?
Something is very wrong, either your sand is too wet, or you have way too much dross mixed in with the melt.
Are you using green sand mix? and are you skimming the dross off?
Or maybe you are not packing the mold tight enough?
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alan_3301
what is your casting process?
Something is very wrong, either your sand is too wet, or you have way too much dross mixed in with the melt.
Are you using green sand mix? and are you skimming the dross off?
Or maybe you are not packing the mold tight enough?
A little of both, really. My sand was too wet, It had dried out and I overdid the remoistening part. I was hoping it wouldn't affect it that much. I didn't skim prior to pouring (it had been previously melted though), and I also made the sprue a bit larger than necessary.
My greensand is a mixture of bentonite clay, and medium sand. (the finest I could find at Home Depo).t
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Ok, as long as you know how to fix it, I wasn't trying to insult, just wanted to make sure you knew you should expect much better than that.
If you haven't heard of the lost foam process, check it out.
It is very easy to get good quality castings, the only downside is you have to make another pattern each time you cast.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alan_3301
Ok, as long as you know how to fix it, I wasn't trying to insult, just wanted to make sure you knew you should expect much better than that.
If you haven't heard of the lost foam process, check it out.
It is very easy to get good quality castings, the only downside is you have to make another pattern each time you cast.
No offense taken. I was eager to see things moving along and my hands were already dried/chapped from other work and i wasn't keen on kneading sand endlessly. I have seen the castings of others and knew this was pretty gnarly in comparison. There is a business local to me which has a bunch of foam they are getting rid of, I intend to pick some up. today.
I cleaned it up with a die grinder somewhat in my attempt to salvage it. However, now I realize my time would be better spent just recasting vs polishing a turd.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Another thing that helped a lot with molding and casting is Petrobond molding sand. It is an oil base sand and is very fine. It allows me to mold any time without tempering the sand and the main downside is a little bit of the sand is lost with each cast. It can be saved and remixed with the oil, so I just keep it separate from the unburned sand. It will yield very fine details in the cast parts as well. It probably costs a bit more than green sand mix but the convenience made it worth it to me. If the voids do not affect the main working part of the casting you may be able to utilize it even though it cosmetically looks bad. I did not see the core area on the top of the carriage, did you opt to make it without that?
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That result is very similar to a sign I did a while back, not realising the finer details required I just used some "moist" sand I had around, and found the moisture in sand blows back when the aluminium is poured in, and causes all sorts of bubbles and pits. probably lucky it didn't just explode on me when it hit the wet sand really.
How big is your crucible? Will you fit the whole block in or you need to cut it up?
cheers, Ian
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
If you're interested, I built a Gingery lathe also. You can see it documented here: Jgro's Shop Pages: Gingery Lathe . My inspiration came from Lionel's build here: Building my Gingery style lathe . If you want help/inspiration, come on over to Alloy Avenue: Alloy Avenue . It's filled my some very knowledgeable people when it comes to hobby casting.
jgro
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aarggh
That result is very similar to a sign I did a while back, not realising the finer details required I just used some "moist" sand I had around, and found the moisture in sand blows back when the aluminium is poured in, and causes all sorts of bubbles and pits. probably lucky it didn't just explode on me when it hit the wet sand really.
How big is your crucible? Will you fit the whole block in or you need to cut it up?
cheers, Ian
I made my foundry out of a 16 gallon pail, and used a 5 gallon bucket to form the cavity inside. I have been using steel pots on sale at goodwill. I do have a #6 silicon carbide crucible, however I do not think it would hold enough pure molten aluminum to fill the mold.
Since all this came from a melted down trans am engine, I am thinking of possibly trying to just cut the shape of some of my parts out of my larger melts. I melted it down and poured in some roughly drawn ingot shapes on the ground to get the oil burned off and steel separated.
I have a set of cutoff wheels for my die grinder, and this bit will be in friday: Amazon.com: TEMO SC-5 Aluminum Cut CARBIDE BURR 1/4" SHANK 1/2" HEAD Cylinder Ball Nose: Home Improvement
At this point I know I've strayed waaay far from Gingery's progression/plans. I'm not sure how casting everything in aluminum seemed economical when the book was first written. That is quite a lot of aluminum to find, and fuel to burn. All that running around and you could by steel bar from the hardware store. In the end you still have to buy some CRS from the shop.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalworkz
Another thing that helped a lot with molding and casting is Petrobond molding sand. It is an oil base sand and is very fine. It allows me to mold any time without tempering the sand and the main downside is a little bit of the sand is lost with each cast. It can be saved and remixed with the oil, so I just keep it separate from the unburned sand. It will yield very fine details in the cast parts as well. It probably costs a bit more than green sand mix but the convenience made it worth it to me. If the voids do not affect the main working part of the casting you may be able to utilize it even though it cosmetically looks bad. I did not see the core area on the top of the carriage, did you opt to make it without that?
Actually I was just lazy and didn't do my false cope when ramming, nor did i introduce enough draft.
There was another particularly large void right outside my wear pad in one corner, but i filled it in with zinc and silver solder for the most part. I was thinking I would try to clean it up and get everything within spec and fill in where it is important with AlumAlloy rods or something else. I have considered using epoxy as well.
This is my pattern as it is right now, I plan on hitting the edges with a rasp. It will be a few days before I can cast again, as we are in our No Burn days here in Phoenix.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Where do you get your petrobond molding sand?
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I have some granite tile laying around. I'm wondering it it might be worthwhile to make some of the parts out of it, in order to add more weight/stiffness.
Perhaps I will just use it as the surface to which the entire lathe mounts. Attach it to a sturdy wooden table like in your build, jgro
Attachment 262818
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
Wow, my cheapo harbor freight tap made it through two of those crankcase mounts. The Irwin brand tap from home depot didn't make it past one hole.
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Re: My Gingery Inspired lathe project
I got my Petrobond from a foundry supply in Oakland, CA because I lived in the east S.F. bay area at the time. You should be able to find a source near you with a search and it has been years since I got mine but I am fairly certain they are still in business. I can't remember the name of the place, but a search should yield suppliers to choose from when you are ready to buy it.
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This casting turned out better. still had some bubbles but no large voids. i should have let the mold sit overnight.