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What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Hi Group,
First of all allow me to apologize for this question. I am not trying to steal your business, but hopefully to get some inspiration. Since my background is in electrical engineering, I somehow lack the ability to find something to manufacture with my machine for which I can make a few bucks here and there. Of course, for me this is a hobby, but I would truly love to make the occasional buck with the intention of... Well buying more tools of course! Apparently, my wife is having a hard time believing the "with this tool I will be able to make this $$$ and this $$$!" tale. But who can blame her? I am actually lucky she hasn't kicked my butt (along with the machine) out of our garage!
What recommendations can you offer? Or should I assume this is my blunder for buying the machine without an actual need for it (as in I already have something to build and the only way to make it happen is by buying the machine?) Truly appreciate your input!
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Didn't you just buy a SECOND Tormach?
Brian
WOT Designs
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WOTDesigns
Didn't you just buy a SECOND Tormach?
Brian
WOT Designs
Isn't that depressing? Anybody might think that I bought a second PCNC1100 because I couldn't handle load with just one, when it is more like I may need some serious psychiatric help ;-)
My goal with the second Tormach was to fix it and then sell it for a profit. But now I want to keep it! Which is considerably ridiculous if I don't make a cent with it.
Like I said, it is very possible I need some serious psychiatric help, heh heh heh...
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
Hi Group,
First of all allow me to apologize for this question. I am not trying to steal your business, but hopefully to get some inspiration. Since my background is in electrical engineering, I somehow lack the ability to find something to manufacture with my machine for which I can make a few bucks here and there. Of course, for me this is a hobby, but I would truly love to make the occasional buck with the intention of... Well buying more tools of course! Apparently, my wife is having a hard time believing the "with this tool I will be able to make this $$$ and this $$$!" tale. But who can blame her? I am actually lucky she hasn't kicked my butt (along with the machine) out of our garage!
What recommendations can you offer? Or should I assume this is my blunder for buying the machine without an actual need for it (as in I already have something to build and the only way to make it happen is by buying the machine?) Truly appreciate your input!
Kinda sounds like me ha! I bought a Miller Trailblazer (portable welder) just because I wanted one, I had it three years and only had 33 hours on it,then I got an ongoing job and paid for it several times over.
My Tormach was about the same, I still havent found a job that I can make real money at with it, but I have fun playing with it, and learned cad cam and the machine. I make some hobby parts for money that goes back into more tools for the machine.
At my age I really dont need the work, but the machine keeps me occupied and keeps the brain from getting too foggy too quickly, I have always loved tools and making things, so its well justified at least in my own mind ha!
My philosophy was if you have the tools you can find work for them eventually, this may not be true for everyone but it was in my case, several times over.
Be patient and keep your eyes open something will eventually turn up.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Several people here seem to make a living making what seem like relatively small, simple things - bottle openers, multi-tools, key-chains, etc. Take a look at Kickstarter and see what other people are doing. It ranges from almost trivial, to surprisingly complex, and people seem to have little trouble finding funding for all of them provided they are unique, and have broad enough appeal.
I manufacture power drawbars and automatic toolchangers on my machines. In the past I've done accessories for classic Jaguar cars.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
"Necessity is the mother of invention." You need something no one else makes or the current design is flawed, you design it, you use it and if its really a great idea/product you sell it. Otherwise you are just a CNC Job Shop looking for work, which isn't all bad as you can control your workload by the jobs you quote or accept. Building your own products puts you at the mercy of orders as in working 7 days/nights a week until you can walk away from your current job to run the Tormach to build parts. It happens quite a bit. So build what you need or build what others need, either way you can make money.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
If anyone is looking for a simple to machine, high margin product, I recommend you Google Ice Ball Makers. A friend asked me to make him one for drinking Scotch, it wasn't too hard to make and works well. I was shocked when I saw what they sold for. Cheapest ones I found were about 400 bucks, and most were closer to double that. For the one I made, I had stock on hand, but even at retail metal prices, there isn't $100 worth of material in it.
Terry
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MFchief
If anyone is looking for a simple to machine, high margin product, I recommend you Google Ice Ball Makers. A friend asked me to make him one for drinking Scotch, it wasn't too hard to make and works well. I was shocked when I saw what they sold for. Cheapest ones I found were about 400 bucks, and most were closer to double that. For the one I made, I had stock on hand, but even at retail metal prices, there isn't $100 worth of material in it.
Terry
WHAT THE HEEEEECK??? Amazing! Never seen anything like this, but now that I have seen it, I want to make one. I am not a drinker, but just to cool down coke, this is priceless. Thanks for the pointer. Even if I don't make a few bucks with this one, rest assured I will have a blast making one.
While I am here, thanks to all who have offered suggestions. Inspiration churning! sheekeetee-sheekeetee-sheekeetee...
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
WHAT THE HEEEEECK??? Amazing! Never seen anything like this, but now that I have seen it, I want to make one. I am not a drinker, but just to cool down coke, this is priceless. Thanks for the pointer. Even if I don't make a few bucks with this one, rest assured I will have a blast making one.
While I am here, thanks to all who have offered suggestions. Inspiration churning! sheekeetee-sheekeetee-sheekeetee...
Since your background is electrical engineering, I think you should spend a full year getting yourself acquainted with the machine and learning some good machining practices, then have some business cards printed and start knocking on doors.
Please bear in mind, I have only been machining for the last 55 years, so I think I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.
I have had my machine for almost four years now, and I look for jobs that people have that are 10 pieces or less. My business card says "ONE TO TEN PIECES IS OUR SPECIALTY". I will take up to a 25 piece job, but I'll turn down 26 pieces. I will take larger orders if I can split them into 25 piece runs.
I did a 75 piece job about 6 months after I got my machine, but I was able to split it into 3 25 piece orders. That job ended up being worth $39,375.00.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
R.DesJardin
"Necessity is the mother of invention." You need something no one else makes or the current design is flawed, you design it, you use it and if its really a great idea/product you sell it. Otherwise you are just a CNC Job Shop looking for work, which isn't all bad as you can control your workload by the jobs you quote or accept. Building your own products puts you at the mercy of orders as in working 7 days/nights a week until you can walk away from your current job to run the Tormach to build parts. It happens quite a bit. So build what you need or build what others need, either way you can make money.
I drew up some parts for a customer, and one of them looks promising as he is selling some of them and getting good reviews. One problem we have is if its good and really sells say on ebay, the overseas folks will buy one, copy it, and send it back to the USA for half price or less.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve Seebold
Since your background is electrical engineering, I think you should spend a full year getting yourself acquainted with the machine and learning some good machining practices, then have some business cards printed and start knocking on doors.
Thanks for your input, Steve. Fascinating success story!
I have been using the machine for 4 years now and I feel quite acquainted with the system, including the CAD and CAM side of it. First year after buying it, I would get up at 2:00 AM and spend 4 solid hours studying all of this. It was a good time since everybody was sleeping and there were no interruptions.
Since then I have been able to use the machine to pretty much build whatever I can envision. I still have some serious issues with making artsy stuff, but that is just because I am not an artsy guy anyway. Plus I don't think Inventor is the best tool for artsy stuff.
So in theory I should be able to proceed with your next step, and start knocking on doors. Seems like an option, no doubt about that!
I have also been exploring the kickstarter method. I did a KS 3 years ago and it wasn't successful at all. It seems that KS campaigns benefit greatly by how many people you can reach on Facebook and social networks alike. It is definitely doable, though, although rest assured it won't enjoy from "Exploding Kittens" mania...
I also thought about eBay but like Popspipes mentions, the other side of the pond usually has a ridiculously cheap version waiting to crush any opponent.
It seems to me that an angle with lots of potential is going after items for people with ridiculous amounts of money. For example, this is why you see some folks selling a $600 knife and you wonder why would anybody cash out such amount when you can walk into Home Depot and buy something with practically the same functionality for $10 (or less!). Well, because that individual who has too many right handed zeroes on his/her bank account prefers something hand made than mass produced (i.e. $10 looks identical to $600!!!).
The search continues! I truly hope I don't turn 79 and 51 weeks old before I find it... heh heh heh
PS How about a $700 pizza cutter? Gas powered! heh heh heh
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I don't make any money with my Tormach either.
I've made hundreds of parts with it, but they were all things I gave to people I know, etc.
I want to somehow make money and I have designed and made some woodworking tools that I think I can sell, but I haven't committed to that yet.
The way I see it, it keeps me sane having this to do when I get time, which in turn keeps me happy enough to keep at my day job, which pays far better than I could ever earn with my precious machine(s).
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
Thanks for your input, Steve. Fascinating success story!
I have been using the machine for 4 years now and I feel quite acquainted with the system, including the CAD and CAM side of it. First year after buying it, I would get up at 2:00 AM and spend 4 solid hours studying all of this. It was a good time since everybody was sleeping and there were no interruptions.
Since then I have been able to use the machine to pretty much build whatever I can envision. I still have some serious issues with making artsy stuff, but that is just because I am not an artsy guy anyway. Plus I don't think Inventor is the best tool for artsy stuff.
So in theory I should be able to proceed with your next step, and start knocking on doors. Seems like an option, no doubt about that!
I have also been exploring the kickstarter method. I did a KS 3 years ago and it wasn't successful at all. It seems that KS campaigns benefit greatly by how many people you can reach on Facebook and social networks alike. It is definitely doable, though, although rest assured it won't enjoy from "Exploding Kittens" mania...
I also thought about eBay but like Popspipes mentions, the other side of the pond usually has a ridiculously cheap version waiting to crush any opponent.
It seems to me that an angle with lots of potential is going after items for people with ridiculous amounts of money. For example, this is why you see some folks selling a $600 knife and you wonder why would anybody cash out such amount when you can walk into Home Depot and buy something with practically the same functionality for $10 (or less!). Well, because that individual who has too many right handed zeroes on his/her bank account prefers something hand made than mass produced (i.e. $10 looks identical to $600!!!).
The search continues! I truly hope I don't turn 79 and 51 weeks old before I find it... heh heh heh
PS How about a $700 pizza cutter? Gas powered! heh heh heh
There is a big world of things to make and build and make money doing.Sounds like you have a decent shop with a decent verity of tools and skills.
Inventing something would be biggest return but could be a very long term investment. While your working on that as rad mentions if you look around there are a number of business to offer your skills to like gun shops, bike shops, motorcycle shops, even fishing tackle shops to name a FEW. All of these have what are called Enthusiasts. These are the people that will pay more for a custom product. They are not people with to much money just people like you and me. If you want industrial work I would market to small factories. This is something I think Tormach does or should. An example is a small food factory. In the this small city I bet there are a dozen that all require repairs of special equipment "not things you buy at walmart" They need bracket this, clamp that flip over and convey away. These business and associated equipment would benefit from a local cnc-dude or having their own in house to make stuff fast and accurate. Many have there own repair shop but the tooling lacks a complete effort many times and this is where a small shop comes in.
Hope this inspires you to not dwell on people that will pay 600.00 for a 10.00 item :). In my life I have only met a few people like that. And market your refined skills and tools to make the best possible products for your clients or yourself.
md
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
Thanks for your input, Steve. Fascinating success story!
I have been using the machine for 4 years now and I feel quite acquainted with the system, including the CAD and CAM side of it. First year after buying it, I would get up at 2:00 AM and spend 4 solid hours studying all of this. It was a good time since everybody was sleeping and there were no interruptions.
Since then I have been able to use the machine to pretty much build whatever I can envision. I still have some serious issues with making artsy stuff, but that is just because I am not an artsy guy anyway. Plus I don't think Inventor is the best tool for artsy stuff.
So in theory I should be able to proceed with your next step, and start knocking on doors. Seems like an option, no doubt about that!
I have also been exploring the kickstarter method. I did a KS 3 years ago and it wasn't successful at all. It seems that KS campaigns benefit greatly by how many people you can reach on Facebook and social networks alike. It is definitely doable, though, although rest assured it won't enjoy from "Exploding Kittens" mania...
I also thought about eBay but like Popspipes mentions, the other side of the pond usually has a ridiculously cheap version waiting to crush any opponent.
It seems to me that an angle with lots of potential is going after items for people with ridiculous amounts of money. For example, this is why you see some folks selling a $600 knife and you wonder why would anybody cash out such amount when you can walk into Home Depot and buy something with practically the same functionality for $10 (or less!). Well, because that individual who has too many right handed zeroes on his/her bank account prefers something hand made than mass produced (i.e. $10 looks identical to $600!!!).
The search continues! I truly hope I don't turn 79 and 51 weeks old before I find it... heh heh heh
PS How about a $700 pizza cutter? Gas powered! heh heh heh
You're right about someone on the other side of the big water waiting to knock you off. I make a line of running gear for remote control, gasoline powered model boats. My stuff is more expensive than some of the other stuff you can buy out there, but I pride myself in making QUALITY stuff. I put a warranty on my stuff that says if it fails due to material or manufacturing defect, I will repair it, replace it or refund your money. YOUR CHOICE.
The thing to do if you're concerned with someone across the big water knocking you off, is to make something that won't sell in big enough quantities for someone over there to want to mess with it.
I had a real shop for close to 20 years. In October 2007, I had a heart attack in the shop that resulted in 5 cardiac bypasses and a new aortic valve in my heart. After I got out of the hospital, my wife gave me a choice. I could have my shop, or I could have here and I had till January 1, 2008 to make up my mind. I sold the shop on January 8, 2008. I think I made the right choice.
I made an attempt at retirement, but that just wasn't for me. I had a few part time jobs, but with the economy the way it was, when work slowed down, the part time guy was the first one out the door. After about 3 years, I bought my machine more to have something to do that as a way to make money,
I call myself Mid Day Machining now because I seldom start before 11:00 AM and I try to be finished by 5:00 PM. A lot of times quitting time depends on whether or not my wife is going to be home and what she is doing. I HAVE been known to be out in the shop/garage till 10:00 or 11:00 PM.
I have some pictures of some stuff I have made on another computer, but right now that computer won't communicate with the monitor. I'm going to get that fixed today. Then I'll post some pictures of some of the stuff I have made on my Tormach.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I use my Tormach 1100 Series 2 to prototype jewelry components from machinable wax. I use these machined masters to make molds which I use for casting pewter. I do not sell much directly from the mill, but I make my living selling the jewelry we cast.
Gastineau Studio Berea Kentucky 40403
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I definitely agree with the "make what you know" thought process. It's a lot easier to draw inspiration from hobbies and interests or even those of friends. I started out doing some job shop work for friends and eventually started designing a better throttle lock for my own bikes. I wanted something that solved problems I had with every other one ever made and after 8 solid months of prototypying and redesigning eventually I had a product I was willing to sell. This was all done on my X3 mill I converted. The first 1500 units were made on that before I could afford a Tormach. Check out the product (OMNI-CRUISE: Universal Motorcycle Throttle Lock) and you will see the 4 main parts. Top and bottom are aluminum with 14 different processes to get those two made including 0.15" wide slots through the 1" tall 0.25" wide bottom. The center pivot nuts are machined to length on the mill, cross drilled and tapped there as well. The bottom Delrin slide is machined from plate and the countersunk holes are also all done on the mill.
Today I have sold over 10,000 Omni's... and have since had to upgrade to a Haas TM2P as my main machine so I can walk away longer while running 3x as many parts per set up vs the Tormach, but the Tormach ran 7,500 Omnis by itself at $50 retail each for 4 parts per (I only sell a small percentage at retail and the rest to dealers and distributors). Ha, never did this math before:
Since Dec 2012
Total parts machined for Omni-Cruise --- 48,000
Total parts hand assembled (inc hardware) --- 168,000
Ouch.
I only work on Omni-Cruise about half the time and the rest is split between jobshop and new product development. I have only been able to get one other product to market and have another about to launch this month, but the job shop work is VERY erratic and painfully "when it rains it pours". I tend to get several jobs at once and have to turn one or more away to not get behind on my next Omni batch but have some great customers that actually plan ahead and bring me "when ever you have time" work as well. Today I am re-machining racing brake calipers. Tonight I am machining customer rollers for test units used for calibrating electronic bike sensors. Tomorrow I am machining 30lb steel door counterweights. Most nights I assemble Omni's and watch a movie with the wife who usually helps assemble. She is amazing and knows her limitations but does what she can.
Inventing and making your own stuff is WAY more fun and usually lucrative. Getting knocked off is something that just happens. I improved upon any previous design out there with my throttle lock... only took 6 months for one of my competitors to use most of my ideas to upgrade theirs to do the same thing I invented mine to (that none had ever done before). Naturally theirs came out at 40% less money, but I still sell a crap load because many people can tell the quality just from the design and pictures, not to mention reviews and magazine articles. Plus there are actually a few of us left that buy American; I went with a Haas mill and Epilog laser specifically for that purpose.
Make a good product and people will buy it. Make a cheap product and people will buy it. Make a product with a small market and it better not be cheap. Make a product for iPhone market and it better be cheap. I have a very limited clientele for my Omni and my new line of products has an even smaller market unfortunately but retails at almost $200-$700 per sale.
There isn't much I would change if I could about what I have done. I own my own business. Have a shop. Lots of toys. Most importantly I'm the boss so I get to work whichever 12-16 hours a day I feel like it.
Last toy was a $3000 high speed spindle Cat40 for the Haas to make up for the Tormach Spindle Speeder I just sold with the mill. Previous toy was an industrial parts tumbler. Next big toy will be a 6,000 lb+ slant bed lathe. (already have one in mind). They say you should ask yourself what you would do if you had a million dollars. Whatever you would do with it is what you should do for a living. If I had a million dollars I would buy a free standing shop with a large outside fenced in lot, fill it with a few more Haas machines, hire someone to do the damn paperwork, and do the exact same thing I do right now. I haven't "worked" a day since I quit my day job, but by god I have never had so little free time in my life either.
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Nice. I was waiting for the book to come out but you just gave us the cliff notes version.
Congratulations.
Nathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WOTDesigns
I definitely agree with the "make what you know" thought process. It's a lot easier to draw inspiration from hobbies and interests or even those of friends. I started out doing some job shop work for friends and eventually started designing a better throttle lock for my own bikes. I wanted something that solved problems I had with every other one ever made and after 8 solid months of prototypying and redesigning eventually I had a product I was willing to sell. This was all done on my X3 mill I converted. The first 1500 units were made on that before I could afford a Tormach. Check out the product (
OMNI-CRUISE: Universal Motorcycle Throttle Lock) and you will see the 4 main parts. Top and bottom are aluminum with 14 different processes to get those two made including 0.15" wide slots through the 1" tall 0.25" wide bottom. The center pivot nuts are machined to length on the mill, cross drilled and tapped there as well. The bottom Delrin slide is machined from plate and the countersunk holes are also all done on the mill.
Today I have sold over 10,000 Omni's... and have since had to upgrade to a Haas TM2P as my main machine so I can walk away longer while running 3x as many parts per set up vs the Tormach, but the Tormach ran 7,500 Omnis by itself at $50 retail each for 4 parts per (I only sell a small percentage at retail and the rest to dealers and distributors). Ha, never did this math before:
Since Dec 2012
Total parts machined for Omni-Cruise --- 48,000
Total parts hand assembled (inc hardware) --- 168,000
Ouch.
I only work on Omni-Cruise about half the time and the rest is split between jobshop and new product development. I have only been able to get one other product to market and have another about to launch this month, but the job shop work is VERY erratic and painfully "when it rains it pours". I tend to get several jobs at once and have to turn one or more away to not get behind on my next Omni batch but have some great customers that actually plan ahead and bring me "when ever you have time" work as well. Today I am re-machining racing brake calipers. Tonight I am machining customer rollers for test units used for calibrating electronic bike sensors. Tomorrow I am machining 30lb steel door counterweights. Most nights I assemble Omni's and watch a movie with the wife who usually helps assemble. She is amazing and knows her limitations but does what she can.
Inventing and making your own stuff is WAY more fun and usually lucrative. Getting knocked off is something that just happens. I improved upon any previous design out there with my throttle lock... only took 6 months for one of my competitors to use most of my ideas to upgrade theirs to do the same thing I invented mine to (that none had ever done before). Naturally theirs came out at 40% less money, but I still sell a crap load because many people can tell the quality just from the design and pictures, not to mention reviews and magazine articles. Plus there are actually a few of us left that buy American; I went with a Haas mill and Epilog laser specifically for that purpose.
Make a good product and people will buy it. Make a cheap product and people will buy it. Make a product with a small market and it better not be cheap. Make a product for iPhone market and it better be cheap. I have a very limited clientele for my Omni and my new line of products has an even smaller market unfortunately but retails at almost $200-$700 per sale.
There isn't much I would change if I could about what I have done. I own my own business. Have a shop. Lots of toys. Most importantly I'm the boss so I get to work whichever 12-16 hours a day I feel like it.
Last toy was a $3000 high speed spindle Cat40 for the Haas to make up for the Tormach Spindle Speeder I just sold with the mill. Previous toy was an industrial parts tumbler. Next big toy will be a 6,000 lb+ slant bed lathe. (already have one in mind). They say you should ask yourself what you would do if you had a million dollars. Whatever you would do with it is what you should do for a living. If I had a million dollars I would buy a free standing shop with a large outside fenced in lot, fill it with a few more Haas machines, hire someone to do the damn paperwork, and do the exact same thing I do right now. I haven't "worked" a day since I quit my day job, but by god I have never had so little free time in my life either.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
If you really want to make a ton of money with your tormach, hire a bunch of nice looking models and shoot them with your machines- it would make a nice 'shop' calendar. Old tormach geezers like me would buy one.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
WOTDesigns has a great story, and I think he might make it sound a lot easier than it is. I'd guess that he's in the upper 5-10% (maybe 1%?) in terms of sales volume and price point. Most inventors are doing ok to move a couple hundred units at any price, let alone one that makes money. The difference between "That's a great idea!" and "Here's $50 for one!" is the difference between watching an Angelina Jolie sex scene in a movie and having a roll in the hay with her.
I bought my mill to work on a product idea which I'm on year 2 of 3 towards making a reality. I give it a 20% chance of breaking even, which I'm ok with because it's not my day job. I also do 1-20 part runs for inventors and researchers like Steve does.
I could probably get more of that work than I do, but I don't look for it too hard. You could order up some cards and go visit some machine shops in your area and ask if they do one-offs for inventors. When they say "Not really," you can tell them "Great, because I do, have some of my cards!" and they might refer somebody to you. Bear in mind, you'll mostly be getting the clients no one else wants, but if you can figure out how to make minimum wage making parts for goofballs, then it beats flipping burgers.
If you just want to make money, CadRhino's calendar is probably the best idea so far.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sansbury
WOTDesigns has a great story, and I think he might make it sound a lot easier than it is. I'd guess that he's in the upper 5-10% (maybe 1%?) in terms of sales volume and price point. Most inventors are doing ok to move a couple hundred units at any price, let alone one that makes money. The difference between "That's a great idea!" and "Here's $50 for one!" is the difference between watching an Angelina Jolie sex scene in a movie and having a roll in the hay with her.
It's not quite THAT bad! I've had several products that have done well, considering I was not interested in building a lot of them. I had several products I did for classic Jaguar cars. There was always more demand than I cared to meet, so I did limited runs of each product, some lasting months, some years, then moved on to something new. The trick is finding a niche that is specialized enough that there is some barrier to entry, but there is a ready market. With Kickstarter and similar sites to get the word out, I sometimes think almost anything will sell.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve Seebold
You're right about someone on the other side of the big water waiting to knock you off. I make a line of running gear for remote control, gasoline powered model boats. My stuff is more expensive than some of the other stuff you can buy out there, but I pride myself in making QUALITY stuff. I put a warranty on my stuff that says if it fails due to material or manufacturing defect, I will repair it, replace it or refund your money. YOUR CHOICE.
The thing to do if you're concerned with someone across the big water knocking you off, is to make something that won't sell in big enough quantities for someone over there to want to mess with it.
I had a real shop for close to 20 years. In October 2007, I had a heart attack in the shop that resulted in 5 cardiac bypasses and a new aortic valve in my heart. After I got out of the hospital, my wife gave me a choice. I could have my shop, or I could have here and I had till January 1, 2008 to make up my mind. I sold the shop on January 8, 2008. I think I made the right choice.
I made an attempt at retirement, but that just wasn't for me. I had a few part time jobs, but with the economy the way it was, when work slowed down, the part time guy was the first one out the door. After about 3 years, I bought my machine more to have something to do that as a way to make money,
I call myself Mid Day Machining now because I seldom start before 11:00 AM and I try to be finished by 5:00 PM. A lot of times quitting time depends on whether or not my wife is going to be home and what she is doing. I HAVE been known to be out in the shop/garage till 10:00 or 11:00 PM.
I have some pictures of some stuff I have made on another computer, but right now that computer won't communicate with the monitor. I'm going to get that fixed today. Then I'll post some pictures of some of the stuff I have made on my Tormach.
Another great inspirational story Steve, I am also one looking forward to you sharing some pictures of things you made on your Tormach.
Walt
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I already knew the market for my product and there ain't a DAMN thing easy about what I've done. I'm gone doing shows and rallies 15 weeks a year, I lose money on half the shows, I pay thousands a month in advertising, my parts cost and overhead mean on average I make less than $15 each when selling to dealers and much less selling to distributors. $15 to machine 4 separate parts in 12 completely different machining set ups/fixtures, then assemble and package the 14 parts not counting having to locktite #4x1/8 screws and 2-56 screws.
I laugh when some tart whines that they worked 10 hours of overtime last week... 100 week is average for me. I'm young and building a brand and business. Now isn't the time for silly things like sleep, hobbies and social life. Now is for work. I'll sleep when I "retire" and just work 5 twelve hour days a week.
Brian
WOT Designs
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SCzEngrgGroup
It's not quite THAT bad! I've had several products that have done well, considering I was not interested in building a lot of them. I had several products I did for classic Jaguar cars. There was always more demand than I cared to meet, so I did limited runs of each product, some lasting months, some years, then moved on to something new. The trick is finding a niche that is specialized enough that there is some barrier to entry, but there is a ready market.
Absolutely. One thing I like about your example is that I'm guessing a lot of classic Jag owners have a few bucks to spend even if they're not Jay Leno-wealthy. I think people underprice their products far more often than they overprice them, and the problems that causes are more often fatal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SCzEngrgGroup
With Kickstarter and similar sites to get the word out, I sometimes think almost anything will sell.
The issue with that line of thinking is that you don't see the projects that fail because lack of publicity/attention is a leading predictor a project will fail. IIRC around 60% of Kickstarter projects fail, and the success rates on other, less-selective sites are a lot lower. I've made parts for some people who've been successful on KS, and known a few others who've had varied results, and one of the things that I've seen from this is that crowdfunding sites are a potentially good place to take an idea from 100 buyers to 1000, but a terrible place to take an idea from 0-10.
I forget the exact numbers but a huge percentage of successful kickstarters get 25-50% funded within the first few days. It's very much a rich-get-richer dynamic. If you have 10 or 20 people interested, I'd cover that myself and do a small batch just for them, then use them as part of your marketing strategy to build an audience. And the people who've had successful campaigns that I know, they all spent real money--$5k or more--producing videos and hiring designers for their websites, that sort of thing. It's a huge improvement over 10 years ago when your only choice was to take out a second mortgage to pay for a run of 100 or 1000 units that you didn't know would sell, but it's still a tough hustle.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
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Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
.....Or should I assume this is my blunder for buying the machine without an actual need for it ....
I resemble that remark. I never told my wife that I need to make money now with the machine but that I'm training for early retirement....she has been buying it so far:)
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
CNC'rs, I have had a blast with this conversation! Not that I am set on what I will produce, but that calendar idea seems like a no brainer. Even if I never get to making the copies ;-)
I also want to thank you guys for providing your success stories. Fascinating stuff indeed!
One topic which has appeared more than once, and appears to be the root of many monetizable endeavors, is hobbies. Brian likes biking, and he came with a product for other bikers. Steve likes RC cars and Ray likes Jaguars (or something to that line). In the same fashion, if I were into shooting, I could know of a trillion parts which could be improved for guns to sell to other gun enthusiasts. Fishing, flying, homebrewing (and the list goes on), and there is certainly an item somebody needs which nobody has made and we know how to make on our machines.
So I kept thinking and thinking "why is it that I cannot find this hobby related part??? CRAPITY CRAPS!!!!"
Well, I think I am living what we call in philosophy, a circular reasoning! "I want to do something with my CNC hobby, so that I can enjoy from my CNC hobby. As a result I should develop something for my CNC hobby!"
BAM! WHAT THE HECK???
Of course you could imagine there is a trillion things I could develop for the CNC world, so maybe that is what I should try to focus on.
Or perhaps, what I need to do is get me an ACTUAL HOBBY!!!
What do you know? Isn't life funny?
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sansbury
I forget the exact numbers but a huge percentage of successful kickstarters get 25-50% funded within the first few days. It's very much a rich-get-richer dynamic. If you have 10 or 20 people interested, I'd cover that myself and do a small batch just for them, then use them as part of your marketing strategy to build an audience. And the people who've had successful campaigns that I know, they all spent real money--$5k or more--producing videos and hiring designers for their websites, that sort of thing. It's a huge improvement over 10 years ago when your only choice was to take out a second mortgage to pay for a run of 100 or 1000 units that you didn't know would sell, but it's still a tough hustle.
I actually agree with this point of view. And in fact, when I was doing my KS campaign 2.5 years ago, I found an article on how KS hides the failed campaigns so that it looks like most of them are successful.
The real truth with KS is that if you don't have a large following (or a lot of cash to start with), it is not as easy as it seems. Most of the ridiculously successful projects usually come from people who already have some kind of funding (sometime millions!).
This is not to say that KS is a lost battle. If the product is really good, and you manage to spread the word so that the project becomes featured, you could get some very nice exposure and end up with way much more cash than anticipated!
I would love to do a KS and get some serious cash overnight, although to be honest that is not the kind of project I am looking for. In essence, and at the moment, I am looking for the proper excuse to buy more tools. Basically, my nose crosses the solar system whenever I tell my wife something like "I need this tool to make more money!" And such weight is starting to mess my back ;-)
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CNC-Dude
Of course you could imagine there is a trillion things I could develop for the CNC world, so maybe that is what I should try to focus on.
That is what I did. My current business is manufacturing power drawbars and auto-toolchangers for CNC machines. There are TONs of thing that could be done. Even simple ones. Look at the ProTram and other products they make. All simple, but work really well.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
CNC-Dude, if you want a CNC-hobby related idea that could make good money, here's one:
A "supersize" horizontal rotary table to increase the milling footprint of small CNC mils. Basically, the 770 has a 7.5" Y axis which is quite limiting, but a horizontal rotary table with 7.5" radius (15" diameter) would almost double the work area (from 105 sq.in to 176 sq. in). This is true for basically every small CNC mill - thus a single solution would be a viable product for quite a large audience (obviously the table size differs for each machine, but the mechanics would be the same).
The catch is two-fold:
- These mills also have relatively short Z height, so it would have to be pretty thin (1-2" loss of height?).
- Existing rotary tables of this size are enormously heavy (200-300 lbs) which essentially eats all available table weight.
Herein lies the challenge - how thin/light can a table be made and still retain the rigidity needed for milling?
There are a few factors making the job easier:
- It doesn't need to support cutting while turning! Most hobby level CNC machines are programmed by hobby level operators, who probably don't have 4+axis milling software. It just needs to "rotate the other quarter/half onto the table" to eliminate the need for operator setup time to flip a plate/part.
- It can mechanically lock in place after turning, aiding rigidity.
- Only needs precise positioning in ~2-4 positions.
- It could rotate directly against the mill table without excessively wearing it (since it doesn't rotate often).
- If the machine doesn't have extra M-codes to activate the plate, a simple trigger switch can be poked by the mill itself (in an unused corner of the mill table).
Most of the mechanics can hang off the front of the mill table, under the rotary plate. Just the plate needs to extend onto the mill table, and the whole assembly can bolt down using standard T-slot bolts (most mill tables are longer in X, so there's extra space available on each side for bolts).
This saves a lot of time for operators - one tool can be used on an entire side without operator intervention. For a piece with 6 tools and 2 rotations per side, that's a difference of 12 tool changes, and the operator can leave the machine alone for twice as long.
I've been pondering this upgrade on my machine for awhile, would be a lovely addition!
--Bryan
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I would love to see what Bryan Suggested. I have pondered the same thing, the best ideas i can come up with so far is a plate that indexes off of 2-4 surfaces on the bottom that when flipped and aligned with reference surfaces (wither bolted to the mill or like the jaw of a vice) is will be such that it has rotated around it's center. A rotary table would be far better.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Just my opinion, cnc machines, tooling, accessories, software etc for the machine are expensive, so maybe thats what needs to be focused on, or something made for the industrial market.
What comes to mind now is a driver for the Vista cnc pendants, not machining, but a software guy could make a few bucks on it.
Another thing is a shield or fixture that would keep probes indicators and such from crashing into the workpiece inadvertently. May be with the advent of the new operating system that wont be a problem anymore??
I have ruined 3 cheapo indicators for the Z height and 2 coaxial indicators so far due to stupidity on my part and due to software issues.
maybe machined spindle mounts for a router for engraving.
A nice machined flex arm for led lighting.
collet holders that hold 10 or so collets for different jobs on the machine. I make mine from wood and soak them with oil.
Vise handles machined from aluminum with your own special twist on them, maybe engraved with the ops name etc.
One thing that I would have been interested in was a spindle balancer, maybe a ball bearing system similar to the one used on 4 wheel drive vehicles (Tire balancers).
I have done things like this all my working career, some things go over some dont. Just find a problem and then work on a way to solve it, and hopefully you can use the Tormach to make the parts needed for it.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Learn selling on ebay, almost anything you make will sell on ebay. You need to know how to list it properly, category,key words, prices...
I've made a nice side business from machining parts and modifying existing parts and selling them on ebay. I only list what I have made and ready to ship so its not stressful. If I'm too busy at my full time job I don't make anything or list anything, no big deal. Or if I'm exhausted from work but I just want to get my next group of parts finished and listed on ebay I'll suck it up and after I help put the kids to bed get out to my garage and machine parts.
I've had my tormach 770 for almost 3 years now, love it. When we buy a bigger house and bigger garage I'll buy a hass mill, but I'll most likely keep my little 770. Love that little machine.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Like I was saying the other day, my intention of making a few bucks is so that I can justify buying more tools. My wife is no longer buying the "I need this and this in order to make money". Clearly I have exhausted said argument. Here is a quick cartoon I put together to illustrate what many of us may be going through, heh heh heh...
Attachment 269716
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I don't make any money with it, but enjoy making model airplane parts (Full scale landing gear for large scale R/C planes). If you aren't careful, it turns into a job, then its no fun :)
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ken Gastineau
I use my Tormach 1100 Series 2 to prototype jewelry components from machinable wax. I use these machined masters to make molds which I use for casting pewter. I do not sell much directly from the mill, but I make my living selling the jewelry we cast.
Gastineau Studio Berea Kentucky 40403
Nice stuff... Get a Form1 SLA 3D printer for lost "plastic" and never look back ;)
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
DARN IT! Had replied to this thread and then lost it all... Oh well, here I go again...
The idea of a slim rotary table for small machines seems like a very lucrative endeavor! It is a little bit more complex than knives and bottle openers, though. In fact, it is my impression anybody trying this would need a team of mechanical engineers (or at least being one with a bunch of experience). It is definitely way out of my field of expertise, but perhaps somebody reads this in a future and notices there is a market for such an item.
The shop tool ideas are a little bit closer to reality for me. Not the crash protector as that requires some serious artificial intelligence, but the shop related accessories. I will definitely study this list closer.
I do agree with eBay being an excellent asset! Have been selling on Ebay for over 15 years. As stated, you can post what you have when you have it. That way we can avoid a mess like the one we are seeing on a different thread where somebody has not been able to deliver the goods for well over two months, but somehow the product is available on eBay!
Thanks to all for sharing your ideas and stories! I feel like I am getting closer ;-)
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Attachment 269826
The next time you loose a partialy typed reply, click the auto saved content button, it has saved mine many times.........
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Something I have been mulling over is a high speed spindle for engraving. I have a 3 phase model boat motor that has a speed controller and a water jacket for cooling, ball bearings, would need a decent collet chuck for it, but the rpm and power is there thats for sure, and they are relatively cheap.
Also a 4 th axis rotary tabe, but using a 3" variety as most of my parts are small, it would be nice for rotary engraving etc.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spinnetti
Nice stuff... Get a Form1 SLA 3D printer for lost "plastic" and never look back ;)
I have thought about it, but I have been spending current resources getting setup for blacksmithing. Do you have experience with 3d printing?
Though printing may be superior for jewelry model making, machine tools can work a greater number of materials and sometimes that comes in really handy.
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
Plus 1 for a better 4th axis
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Re: What is it that you do to make $$$ with your Tormach?
I have a 4" table that I CNCed. I use it on my mini mill that I CNCed. I would like to use it on my 770 but would have to change the motor tuning and current settings. It looks like Tormach is not going to allow access to motor tuning in Path Pilot.
The two things I would like to see is 1 a lower cost tool setter. Tormach wants $875 or so for theirs. 2 a mobile touch pad.
Dave