Schrupphobel72, thank for posting the pictures. That is exactly what I had in mind!
I've got to talk to those guys... Does anyone speak german...:p
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Schrupphobel72, thank for posting the pictures. That is exactly what I had in mind!
I've got to talk to those guys... Does anyone speak german...:p
found an epoxy supplier that claims 1 to 5 ratio by volume possible with sand filler.If true this would reduce my previous cost estimate by almost 50%.Cost at this ratio would be $6.00/sqft 1" thick.Never beleive what you read.To confirm stats I would buy 1qt resin add 5qt sand and see if it can be mixed.I really don' twant to give the supplier link as it is the most confusing site I have ever seen.
AW what the hell you gotta see this,5billion pages and links.Don't try their search engine.www.epoxysystems.com.
Glad to see interest in the subject.Don't go out and buy a ton of epoxy and sand yet.There is still alot of issues to be dealt with.eg air entraptment ,vibratory compaction, heat generation,viscosity , vacuum de gassing etc.I wish I had the time to do the experiments now so It was my risk only.I only have experince with 50% fill by weight.Some sites have stated 90% filler.I don't know.At this level it ain't gonna be a pouring item.As I said before I have tons of orders now and little time.working 18/7.I have tons more info to post.Questions or comments are welcomed.Try to keep the interest happining.
Larry
Granite chipper sweeper
Ah yes, the good old epoxysystems.com lol... 375 product and nothing of use. Actually that's the reason I'm here.
Hey Walter
If I got one dollar for everytime I recommended these guys I would be rich. www.shopmaninc.com
Low viscosity epoxy like 30bucks a gallon.They don't know me,maybee you can say larry sent you and they will give me a discount.I want to contact them to state our requirements and possibly have a custom system made for us ZONERS
Larry
Epoxy Promotor
After reading all of this stuff, I am thinking what about this idea. using steel fiber as aggregate and this stuff "http://www.pavepatch.com/flexset-rapid-concrete-repair-5gal-p-29.html" as epoxy should be interesting. I am at least going to give it a try unless someone here thinks that it is totally daft.
Larry, you are still talking about sand as the aggregate each posting.
You need to use a mix of aggregate sizes based on the part being built. The bigger the better, up to a fraction of the feature wall thickness. The german book I read recommended around 1/5 wall thickness for the largest aggregate, the Zanite site say 1/2. For a two inch thick feature, you are looking at rocks in the 1/2" to 1" range, and below.
Your Epoxy ratio is going to be driven by the surface area of the aggregate, and cubic inch of sand it going to have a hell of a lot more surface area over all it's grains than a single cubic inch rock. It'll end up weaker also. Just note that the vibration damping graph shown at the botton of the link in Post #37 indicates they were using 8% epoxy and 92% aggregates.
Just note that you do not have to make all features massive. You can core this stuff with foam, pipes, cardboard, old rags, beercans, whatever you like...
Walter,i'm German just ask what you want to know!
Schrupphobel
Mark
I am always saying sand as other posts are saying quartz aggreates.The large rocks looks good on paper but would have high resin demand as the spaces between large aggriates is large.This would not be true if the rocks were like little bricks tightly packed.I only have experience with 50% filler loadings and micro spheres.Example,a box of spheres any size occupies 52%of the box leaving48% voids for the resin demand.We use a mix of different sized spheres to fillin the spaces.I think basicly we are each 50% right.I will mix the sand and we will put in your rocks.We are hear to try to figure out what a good balance is.I have had filler descusions with I think NC Cams quite sometime ago.He perfectly described the reasons for fines and has seen people using E/G.Hopfully he will respond.
Larry
Hi Larry,
I also don't mean just larger rocks, leaving large voids to be filled with resin, you need all the grades from fine sand up to the rocks. In the volume occupied by a larger stone, the required resin is zero percent.
On the german site, http://5128.rapidforum.com/topic=110...8&search=beton
there are a few test peices guys have done, using various ratios of the different aggregate sizes and resin ratios. The guys are testing resin ratios from about 8% by weight, which is what the commercial outfits are using, up to about 12%.
The vibrating table seems to have a very large effect on the final result. They are also having some issue with mold releasing agents. I believe the highest quality cast to tolerance molds also use vaccuum degassing.
Any suggestions as to the best source of clean, graded rock (preferrably black :)
I think one of the islands in the Tahiti group has beaches composed of sand from obsidian; guaranteed black and just a bit salty.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by RotarySMP
Are there no mathematicians in the zone that could give a definitive answer to the ratio of sizes for say three different ones that would give the best space filling ?
I can do it in 2d but not 3d, simply by using coreldraw and playing with circles !
Edit
In case anyone asks, it's 1 x 10mm circle to 1x 1.5mm circle to 3 x 0.6mm circles.
Edit 2
I've just googled "spherical packing mixtures".
I think the word "mathematicians" should be changed to "mathematical genius" in the first line. (chair)
John
Hey Mark,try
www.reade.com/products/sand/granite-aggregates
www.kafkagranite.com
I have spent hours Googling and found little on suppliers,then it hit me like a brick of granite.Nobody is on the web as sand and gravel is usually a local commodity.Looking in the phone book there are tons of local suppliers.
I had been talking of sand before as some of the machine pourers use quartz which is very hard and better granite grades have high%quartz .
Quartz is sio2 and possibly Home depot has it.I will drop by and see.I am trying to locate suitable sand and gravel that is easy for everyone to find.
Good pictures Schrupphobel72,Thanks for the find.One picture is worth 1000words I will try to keep to12% words to picture ratio.
I can see in the picture as I thought 8to 12% resin is a stiff dry mix.The other picture shows what I beleive to be a home made shaker.I said it before"you gotta shake the hell outta it"to compact and release air.I will post more on this later.A very stiff mixture like this is probably 50% air.
On the release problems.Epoxy is an extreme glue which seems to penetrate anything.That mold has to be waxed 4or5 times following the manfactures directions to the T.If you could imagine violently shaking a bunch of sand and rocks on a mold surface whats going to happen???It is called the sandpaper syndrome.DO I need to explain?the abrasion is gunna take the mold release off and probobly scratch the mold surface.Solution,use cast iron.Just kidding.Solution#2Thoroughly wax and apply a gellcoat first.
Larry
this is mostly true. commodity stuff, whether crushed granite or crushed limestone is very local both in extraction and sales. depending on where you live they may be putting crushed granite in as roadbed at $8 ton. however if you are away from the Canadian shield, don't despair. Aggregates do move across continents, not for roadbed, but for architectural and landscape uses. Believe it or not, rock is trucked to Canada from as far away as Mexico because its a desired colour or shape (ie naturally rounded instead of crushed). landscape centres would a good place to find a variety, and be able to buy small quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by lgalla
What did they put in there..? They may also have some tips on mixing the stuff...:)Quote:
Originally Posted by schrupphobel72
Thanks!
Sorry Walter, They haven't say much at all on the german site (Nucky and Thomas are the two guys making this Portal mill. They are intending to manufacture them for sale.), about mixing the stuff except that they did it by hand. I'll ask them to post some instructions/pictures.
Larry, you are right about the aggregates sanding the mould releaseing agent away. Nucky and Thomas have not used a gell coat.
I found a company about an hour agao with a great range of products, sand of every possible grain size (filter sand), pebbles both smooth and broken in various colours, and a Balsalt fill with grain sizes from 0 to 4 mm which is black.
mark
You forgot to give a sand link.If you contact Nucky&Thomas ask what kind of beer is necessary to complete the job.:cheers: :cheers:
Ask also if that is a vibrating table.
Thanks
Larry
Maybe its good to use an ready-to-use mixed epoxy-concrete.
Look at http://www.watco.co.uk/asp/autopage....CXDF&Group=REP
I can tell that i found ather polymer concrete resin like Reichhold POLYLITE 415-017 (totaly 5 resins under POLYLITE 415 brand) here is a link: http://www.reichhold.com/composites/.../app.cfm?ID=91
Thing is that these epoxys and special epoxys for polymer concrete have diferent properties so it will be hard to reach that level of strength and ather characteristics that have for example Zanite cocnrete which is specialy designed for use in machine base.
so we need to think how to add aditional strength with other materials maby fiberglas could help (it is cheap too) :) or metal armature and olready mentioned diferent size Quartz sands.
I also found local shop who sels these quartz sands they are realy cheap 50kg for 5$
the more I serch abut these epoxys and read about these materials I understand that this chemistry is not so simple :drowning:
Why not use a pre-mixed epoxy for concrete repair.
Look at http://www.watco.co.uk/asp/autopage....CXRS&Group=REP
Episs
the POLYLITE is for polymer concrete not E/G.It is a polyester resin not epoxy two entirely different animals.Off the top of my head epoxy is 10 times stronger.I won't go on about it I'll just not recomend it.
Is Zanite a product for sale?Or is it just for their own use?Glad to see someone looked for local quartz supply.I am saying quartz sand is a good starting point for a fine filler as some of the machine castors are using quartz or granite.Interestingly high qualty granite is 60%quartz and a very hard stable mineral.Sand is usually quartz and granite granules which have survived erosion.
You seem disheartened.don't be ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY.Have one of those German beers in the pictures.:cheers: :cheers:
Which reminds me,Gotta go down to the corner beer store.The pictures were great information so in honour of the German guys I will buy some Holsten Festboc. Addium Did the Romans use granite?
Larry