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Got to thinking today. Do you think learning to work within the constraints of a Tormach; being forced to optimize for limited HP, RPM, feed rate, resolution, harmonics, and machine rigidity has made you a better machinist than if you started on a high end machine?
I can do anything on my Tormach you can do on one of those $100,000.00 monstrosities. It's just gonna take a little longer.
And yes, I think you would benefit from learning some basic Machining practices on a Tormach.
If you're going to buy one, buy the 1100. The others are too limiting.
Better machinist or not depends on to what use you intend to put the newly learned skill.
Commercial machines have the same limitations, just at a higher level. If in future you intend to work with commercial equipment then it is a no brainer, you should learn on commercial equipment, if you have the opportunity.
Phil:)
It makes the learning process less expensive.
Crash a Tormach, at the most you have to buy a $600 spindle cartridge. Crash your Haas, you might have to buy a Tormach....
Some junior colleges still have shop classes with commercial machines and the tuition is much cheaper than a trade school. I transitioned from my ancient Lagun to CNC at Fullerton J.C. in Fullerton, Calif. Great instructors as well.
Experience makes you better. Doesn't matter which machine, it's time in the shop.
I agree 100%! I consider my machinist skills the most perishable of anything I have ever done. As I noted in another thread, I have a go to setup for parts. To be honest, I try to run some small part on my machine every couple days or more. If nothing else to keep it lubed and me familiar with the cutter tools and offsets currently set. Some of my parts can be fixtured in minutes and dont require anything more then to load code, line up the right tools at bottom of rack, check the 5c in vise is tight, set z and let it rip. PP homes pretty accurate these days allowing use of preset x,y and even z. I sometimes do other projects and things for weeks at a time and in the past when I got back in front of the machine I had little confidence in what I was doing. Jogging around my 60$ hamier probe tip got my full attention. When I use my mill every day I can fly around at full speed using a combo of the puck on my tormach and mdi line..Quote:
Originally Posted by R.DesJardin
As for machine size or power. I tend to like small complex parts, so a accurate rigid machine with good high - low speed spindle control would be ideal. A cnc microscope type machine device comes to mind.
on the other hand a 3 phase 15 hp spindle with axis driven tables that could push my jeep thru the wall is way cool huh huh huh. Fill barrels of swarf . 3 phase or rotary driven 3 phase power is another problem to consider. Where I live my tormach machine alone cost an average of $0.22 an hour to run at .19 cents a kwh. Add 1kw shop lighting and all the other stuff I run and my power bill is not trivial.
I was lucky, one of my good friends owned a machine shop, he was a wealth of information, this was pre CNC but the knowledge I gained from him was very valuable.
A good machinist is one that can do anything that comes into the shop whether it be on the manual machines or CNC machines.
True. Machining is setup and fixturing, this doesn't change much when you go from manual to CNC.Quote:
Originally Posted by popspipes
I doubt it, but you do learn to work on the ragged edge of spindle HP if you want the fastest possible process. Once you get it dialed, it's fairly repeatabe as long as you don't have a damaged or dull tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrakai
I think a good machinist is more about mindset.
Check everything. All the time.
$4,200 lesson that the Haas jog away feature REQUIRES a Z jog too. I jogged only Y to inspect. Without the Z it didn't call the tool offset and rapid into the part while ramping up spindle to 6K rpm. Ouch >:-(Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarks11
Wrong words courtesy of Tapatalk and Voice To Text. You bar well come.
I will add that I think starting on a manual machine made me a better machinist when I built my first CNC. by now it would have averaged out so did it make me better? No. I started on an X3 CNC before tormach... Does that make me even better than those that started on a Tormach? No. But It paid for my tormach. Which paid for my Haas. Which paid the second Haas I'm buying this week.
Being better is a combination of environment, desire and aptitude. Not flavor or brand.
Wrong words courtesy of Tapatalk and Voice To Text. You bar well come.
b1tchinest, most AWESOME post I've read on here in ages...and you're all a bunch of pretty wily, smart dudes...so that's saying something!!Quote:
Originally Posted by WOTDesigns
DS
Using Sprutcam damaged my brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOTDesigns
LOL. I never had the pleasure
Wrong words courtesy of Tapatalk and Voice To Text. You bar well come.
Think of it as preventing dimentia lijke crossword puzzles are supposed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaindew
The only thing CNC really does is take a good machinist and make them an excellent producer.
It also helps with some of those really complicated parts too.
I grew up in the tool and die industry. I told my dad once "if you don't have one of these machines in your shop, you just can't be competitive any more".
His response was "oh, B/S. I came do anything on a Bridgeport mill that you can do on one of those". At the time I had a manifold in the truck that had internal and exterior corner radii so I handed it to hil and asked how long it would take him to make 10 of these. He said about 2 weeks. I told him I could spend an hour or two on the cad and I could run 10 pieces in a day.
Then about 3 months later he went to my brothers shop and when he came home, he said "ya know, if you don't have one of those in your shop now, you just can't be competitive. I thought, jeez, where did I hear that before.
I actually think it does...Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrakai
here is my logic to back up that statement:
Machining makes one a better machinist...
having a Tormach ( or any other Mill really, that you can afford to own, afford to use, and even afford to break stuff on as needed) allows one to machine stuff... having easy access to it in your home/shop/whatever means you have easy access to machining stuff (and by extension, becoming a better machinist)
so, conversely, not having a Mill (or easy access to one) would make you less good...
and as this is the Tormach forum, the question could easily be looked at as Tormach vs not having a mill, so the obvious answer is Yes, having a Tormach makes one a better machinist...
(so how was that for some slightly circular logic that only got somewhat lost?)