Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
Powermax 85 with CPC port, shipped from factory with 4 conductor power cable, red/blk/wht/grn conductors. It was incorrectly assumed for a 220v 1ph service that the red/blk were hot legs, the white was neutral, and the green was ground.
The system is currently not outputting torch volts from the CPC port however it otherwise functions normally. (The test conducted was to read DC volts across CPC pins 5&6 while jumping pins 3&4. Also, 1.5v was introduced into the J32 connector and only 1.5v was read across CPC pins 5&6)
It has since been realized (by looking more closely at the owners manual) that the white conductor should in fact NOT have been connected to neutral, but should only be used as the third conductor for a 3ph service. The system is now being powered from a 600v 3ph service but torch volts are still not being output.
My question is, how would the improper power wiring likely affect the Powermax torch volts output?
It is also mentioned here to hopefully help someone else down the road.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
Sorry I missed this post. The incorrect input wiring would have absolutely no affect on the divided output voltage.
You will only read arc voltage (on pins 5 and 6 of the CPC port) when the plasma arc is transferred to the plate and cutting. It will read an analog DC output that is 1/50th of the actual arc voltage between the work ground and the torch electrode.....this is assuming the voltage divider board is still on the factory default setting of 50:1. So.....the 1.5 volts that were read between pins 5 and 6......multiply that by 50 and that indicates there were 75 arc volts. This would indicate pilot arc voltage levels (firing the torch in the air).....or if the arc was transferred to metal plate with the work ground attached likely the plate was very thin gauge. Sounds to me like it is working as designed.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ensoll
Powermax 85 with CPC port, shipped from factory with 4 conductor power cable, red/blk/wht/grn conductors. It was incorrectly assumed for a 220v 1ph service that the red/blk were hot legs, the white was neutral, and the green was ground.
The system is currently not outputting torch volts from the CPC port however it otherwise functions normally. (The test conducted was to read DC volts across CPC pins 5&6 while jumping pins 3&4. Also, 1.5v was introduced into the J32 connector and only 1.5v was read across CPC pins 5&6)
It has since been realized (by looking more closely at the owners manual) that the white conductor should in fact NOT have been connected to neutral, but should only be used as the third conductor for a 3ph service. The system is now being powered from a 600v 3ph service but torch volts are still not being output.
My question is, how would the improper power wiring likely affect the Powermax torch volts output?
It is also mentioned here to hopefully help someone else down the road.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ensoll
Powermax 85 with CPC port, shipped from factory with 4 conductor power cable, red/blk/wht/grn conductors. It was incorrectly assumed for a 220v 1ph service that the red/blk were hot legs, the white was neutral, and the green was ground.
Incidentally the correct 3 phase rotation conductor colours for USA and Canada is:
USA-------Canada
L1 BLK-----RED
L2 Red-----Blk
L3 Blue----Blue.
If any other colour is used, there should be the correct colour indication (electrical tape etc) at any termination point.
Al.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
The wiring is correct for 3 phase input power based on CSA requirements. The operators manual suggests changing to the correct cable if you intend to use it on single phase operation. Most use the existing provided cable and use the black and white as power (clip off the red) and green as electrical ground.
Best regards, Jim Colt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al_The_Man
Incidentally the correct 3 phase rotation conductor colours for USA and Canada is:
USA-------Canada
L1 BLK-----RED
L2 Red-----Blk
L3 Blue----Blue.
If any other colour is used, there should be the correct colour indication (electrical tape etc) at any termination point.
Al.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
I have never seen white designated as a live phase?
Al.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
As I said...we adhere strictly to CSA requirements. I could put you in touch with our engineer in charge of electrical standards.....I certainly do not claim to be the expert!
Jim Colt
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Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
I just though that it may be advisable to point out a conflict with the norm, as apparently was seen by the OP and caused some confusion..
This is a pertinent page from NFPA79 regarding conductor colours. It shows white as indicating a grounded conductor.
Al.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jimcolt
As I said...we adhere strictly to CSA requirements. I could put you in touch with our engineer in charge of electrical standards.....I certainly do not claim to be the expert!
Jim Colt
It would not be legal to use a White wire as a Power Conductor, no matter what your Engineer has said, it is incorrect, Red & Black is ok, But White for AC power is a no
You can of cause use shrink tubing the right color for a Power conductor covering the white at each end of it's connection, or tape can work as well
But you already have a Red, you would use that & cut the white, for 220v single phase use
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
try go to a electrical supplier to buy some 4 wire cabtire with a blue conductor in it, im pretty sure you'll have a hard time finding it. As for red black blue being to the only correct phase colors for three phase, thats a bit of a stretch. However white should not be used for anything else then neutral, but as mentioned can be identified by tape or shrink tube.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
I am certainly not an electrician. I have a PM65 that was wired incorrectly exactly like the op. My table manufacturer says that it damaged the IGBT relay and main powerboard.
Hypertherm told him...If you are saying the red wire on neutral for the incoming power this will not make a difference. All incoming power is converted to DC at an Ac to DC bridge immediately. If you attached a neutral to the bridge you just don’t get power on that leg. Worse case the system won’t power up.
That is taken from a conversation but answers the question pretty well I think. Hypertherm is still doing warranty repairs on my machine to replace these parts even thought they don't believe it will fix my problems. They have been first class the whole way. I should get my machine back next week and would be glad to update the thread if anyone cares.
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
As I stated earlier...the operators manual for the Powermax85 suggests changing the input cable for single phase operation....and it suggests using one that meets the electrical code requirements that vary from region to region. These units are sold worldwide, and there is no input cable that is 100% correct for every application. I am not going to argue with anyone about the electrical code that is in force where you live...because you will likely be right and I will not! I suggest, as the operators manual does....that you should change to the input power cord or wiring that is suitable to your location.
We have been producing plasma cutters since 1968 and selling them worldwide. For many years we supplied the portable machines with a cord and a plug installed. After a fair number of complaints (based on the plug being wrong for the local requirements) we stopped installing the plugs and the cords......which generated far more complaints! So now we ship with a cord that is specified to be correct by CSA standards for 3 phase operation wherever CSA requirements are used. We also produce many systems that fall under the CE and CE tick standards for different regions of the world.....these are all shipped with different power cords that meet the majority of the rules in many different regions.
Bottom line...there is no cord or color coding that will work under all conditions all the time. Best bet is to review the voltage rating, the current draw and the electrical codes that are in place for your region...and install the proper line connection equipment as required!
Best regards, Jim Colt Hypertherm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
It would not be legal to use a White wire as a Power Conductor, no matter what your Engineer has said, it is incorrect, Red & Black is ok, But White for AC power is a no
You can of cause use shrink tubing the right color for a Power conductor covering the white at each end of it's connection, or tape can work as well
But you already have a Red, you would use that & cut the white, for 220v single phase use
4 Attachment(s)
Re: Powermax 85, electrical connections mistake, effect on system
Just as a follow up....the original poster here had a Powermax85 that apparently was wired using the 3 phase , 4 wire cable (that was shipped with the unit) for a single phase connection, and after realizing that the wiring was incorrect....rewired it correctly on a 3 phase circuit. He was concerned that there was no output from the voltage divider output circuit (this is a divided analog DC output voltage that is used for height control system feedback on a cnc plasma cutting machine). He said there was only 1.5 volts DC on this output when the torch was fired. Since the output is the raw arc voltage divided by 50.....then you would multiply the 1.5 volts that was read on this output....which comes out as 75 VDC......which is about correct for either a plasma pilot arc (arc fired in the air) or for a transferred arc on thin material. I suggested that his voltage divider output seemed OK and normal from my experience. In reality...incorrect power connections should have had no effect on the DC output ratio of the voltage divider circuit.
For those that are not aware, the Hypertherm Powermax85 (as well as the Powermax65) CSA version is designed to operate on any input line voltage between 200 VAC and 600 VAC single or three phase......without changing any input links.....in other words the unbit senses the input voltage and phases and adjusts accordingly. For this reason...there certainly can be confusion regarding input line connections....especially for an electrician that has never seen this kind of input connection. Since we do have some fairly clear instructions in the operators manual that comes with every Powermax unit...it is hoped that an electrician would open the manual and read the instructions before making electrical connections.
Here is what is in the operators manual for cord connections for single and three phase.....no colors are mention, rather the connection numbers (L1, L2 and L3) (which are clearly marked) are used for proper wiring.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
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