Was wondering what the main differences are between programming and running citizen with a mitsubishi control and a Tsugami with a fanuc control.
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Was wondering what the main differences are between programming and running citizen with a mitsubishi control and a Tsugami with a fanuc control.
Most Swiss CNC programming are very similar. It just the interface that is different. I know the Mitsubishi control on the Nomura's allow for live editing while the Fanuc control forces you to "rewind" if you edit the program. What is it that you're looking to do if you're comparing those controls?
Some things that come to mind:
-Mit uses G50 Z at the top of the program, Fanuc can use G50 Z but commonly uses G150
-Mit has a "Start Position" canned cycle that you must go to, to set your initial machining origin, Fanuc uses G300 (both can support auto cutoff/auto origin programs though)
-When a Mit soft alarms, the spindles continue to run. On a Fanuc, any alarm stops everything (by soft alarm I mean something like overtravel, arc radius error...not a crash or servo alarm)
-Mit likes G50's more than Tool Geometery offsets. Fanuc can go either way. Really, mit can too, but generally I feel they do better with G50W's vs Tool Data
-Fanuc has the handy M13/M14 (spindle and coolant on)
-Mit commands spindle as M3 S1=2000 or M23 S2=2000 or M80 s4=5000, vs tsugami is just M103 S1000
-Sync codes are totally different. Citizen generally uses G600 or G700 and sometimes G800 codes. Tsugami generally uses M200 codes.
-Citizen uses strange wait codes like !2L100 (that would wait for !100 in $2. Tsugami generally uses M500 wait codes
-Citizen has $1, $2, and $3 in 1 program. Fanuc just has a 'main and sub' in 2 seperate programs program
-Citizen is generally used with Win-CNC editing software
-Citizen programs MUST be started from the beginning (or use GOTO statements to skip). Fanuc you can start on an arbitrary line in the middle of the program.
-Fanuc Polar OD work is programmed using X,C instead of X,Y in G16. Mit uses X,Y in G16
-On Fanuc, I would always call the tool and offset together, like T303. This also works on Mit most of the time, but I have has issues where I had to put the offset on a different line to get it to register correctly, like T300; G0 X.27 Z0 T3; The offset on the first move after a tool call is how I program all Mit/Citizens
-Macro B is the same between both
Ill add more as I think of them
MC, on starting mid-program with Fanuc, I was only able to do that on the older machines/controls. Using 18i,21i & 31 I was always forced to rewind/reset the program to the beginning on both channels. Is there an easy work around if you want to start mid-program on the newer controls?
@DC, Hm, the machine I am specifically thinking of had an 18i-TB and another had a 16i-B, both dual path controls.
Both could start from an arbitrary line by going to Edit, then moving the cursor to the desired line, then hit Memory and Start. On my machines, the program would stay on the line selected when you went to Mem. I didnt have to do anything special. Im not sure if there is a parameter that allows you to do this or if its just native to Fanuc controls. This is also why I got in the habit of always doing this sequence: Edit, reset, reset Mem, Start.
If your control wont let you do that, the only way I know to skip large portions of the program is a GOTO statement. Im not sure about a 21 or 31 control, as I have little experience with those.
With the citizen I used a lot of the commands such as r for radius, c for chamfer and a for angle. Are these the same on the fanuc?
@DC If your Fanuc Control is forcing you to rewind to start no matter what, you need to check your keep relays. There is one just for this.
Hey Ben, I would be very curious to see if that's possible. My experience has been that as soon as you hit the reset button, to get into EDIT mode, you're always forced to the beginning of the program after editing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benpen
Switching to Edit mode is always followed by reset, but after that you can scroll down to any place you want and switch back to auto and run it from the cursor location. The trick is that you can't make any changes before you start. You have to go Edit--->Find the spot---->Auto--->Start If you make any changes you gotta go back to the top again. But as a for instance let's say you were milling flats on a part and you wanted to set your flats before moving on. Run through the mill, single block to the T0.(or set up an M1) Edit/reset. Check the part, make the adjustment. Reset. Search for Mill. Auto, start. Then you can run to the T0 again, stop measure, repeat as necessary. Then once your flats are right just let it keep going to the next tool.
^ this. I totally forgot, but ben is correct that there is a parameter or keeprelay that controls if you can do this. Ask your distributor what relay controls this and its an easy fix.
So it just so happens that I showed my machines to a guy today that runs tsugami and he said that it doesn't work also. Maybe that's only a Star Fanuc thing. Worth a call anyways. Let me know if you get a concrete answer. I'd be interested to know.
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I ran 2 tsugamis in the past, a BX12 with a 16i control and a BS19 with a 18i-TB and both supported mid program starts, so its not a universal Tsugami issue. It has to be a parameter or relay. I know you can do this on Nexturn machines as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benpen
i will interject, on a tsugami ss32 with a 31i control you can mid tape with some minor challenges.
first off if you try it will ask you if you want to start in the middle so you have to hit the green button twice, but that will not re-sync the wait codes
to re-sync the wait codes i generally start a line or two above on both paths the wait code with the machine in p.c./handle mode(bass master mode), dial it up to the wait code, flip the program select switch to path 2 and start that path, then you put the switch back to both paths and start handling through. so does it work yes, however it is usually faster to cut the part off and start over
use at your own risk
I've been at new employer for a month now. I couldn't ask for a better group of coworkers.
It's definitely a learning experience. I had always programmed and setup citizen L20 VIII and
K16E machines. Both with mits controllers and cav
barfeeders. Mostly rf connector work. Materials were usually copper alloys or 300 series stainless. Left hand cut off never used extended nose collets.
At my new job I'm working with Tsugami s206 and ss20 models. Mostly medical work. Materials are kovar, titanium, and cobalt chrome. All use righthand cutoffs and extended nose collets. Also all machines are currently using a checker kit. Programming the Fanuc is completely different than the Mits. Also using a checker kit versus a guide bushing us quite different. The tsugami are quite different in regards to tool setting and the main sub being two different programs. At my previous employer we had Partmaker without surfacing. I would normally hand code programs. It just seemed faster and more streamlined. The work I'm doing now contains a good bit of surfacing. Fortunately they have Partmaker with all the surfacing add ons. I had never realized the things you can do with the surfacing. I'm not sure where I would even start if I had to hand code surfacing. Also having y axis on the sub and nsk high speed spindles are the icing on the cake. Also going from a Cav bar feeder to a LMS turbo 2-20 is quite different. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks