Motion control help.......1.5mtr X 3.5mtr Table With Rotary Axis

Its been more than three years of following builds, same has inspired me to build my own. Building two tables of identical foot print.

I might be stupid but all major mechanical components are ordered & the same are going to be delivered soon.

The plan was to use PlazPack 5 & RouterPak 5.5 from candcnc, to my surprise & frustration it seems India is on the banned list of candcnc & all hopes of importing an affordable & reliable plug & play system seems to have gone with the wind. Electronics being my weakest link(been welding & designing steel structures for 15+yrs), Request forum members to guide me in the right direction with the way forward.

Also please comment on the design intent images attached.
Thanks in advance for any or all suggestions.

Anil

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Steppermotors, drivers, breakoutboards shouldn't be to difficult.
Your location is closer to china than the most of us.
Not plug and play though.

To find a decent THC outside the US might be more of a chalange.
You could check out:
CNC Direct. - Top of the Web
They are from south afrika. I have no experience with their products.

Thank You for the link, been doing a bit of looking around.....:) seems like Ethernet controllers is the way to go...found this CS-Lab - Sterowniki CNC - Sterowanie CNC - CSMIO - CS-Lab Elektronika, automatyka przemys?owa, CNC seems to be reasonably priced for what it can do, working my way out of this.

These CS-lab sets look very decent. The manual is very thorough as well, with tips like: "do not use a wireless keyboard".
Sounds like guys with hands-on experience. Poland has a good engeneering reputation here in europe.
Damn, sounds like a commercial; I never heard of CSlabs before.

I am still running the old LPT setup, so can't advise you on any ethernet solutions.
At least you have plenty of I/O, one of the drawbacks of LPT.
Make sure you choose a set which supports slave axis drive.
Would be nice to see your review if you decide on any of these sets.

Have almost decided to go with them, seems worth the $$$$$, next up is TCH......will update soon....

If you go with CS Labs, and can afford it, I'd recommend the IP-S over the IP-M just for the extra I/O ports and expandability, not to mention the additional operating speed. The IP-M is limited to only what it comes with for I/O and has a 128khz maximum step frequency vs. 4mhz for the IP-S. If you can't afford the IP-S, the IP-M is an excellent controller, but you need to be sure that the number of I/O ports will be enough to do the job. If you do buy the IP-M, keep in mind that there is a terminal kit that you need to purchase separately (you can get by without it, but it's much easier to wire with it and it's not expensive). It is included with the IP-S and IP-A, but not included with the IP-M.

Other than that, you'll have to tell us each function you want the machine to perform in order to be specific about what parts you will need. A basic list would be:

Mach 3 and computer with ethernet capability
CSMIO IP-M or IP-S
4 stepper or servo drives
4 stepper or servo motors
4 encoders (if drives require them)
9 limit switches (3 to be used for homing)
24 volt power supply (25 watts or so is probably enough for your application, 50 watts would be more than enough)
Power supply for stepper or servo drives, voltage varies a bit depending on servo or stepper drives you choose
Probably you will need a minimum of 2 relays (that's all the IP-M will operate), one to turn the torch on/off, and one to turn the servo/stepper on/off
2 contactors to work with the above relays, specifications depend on your native line voltage and the amount of current required by the torch and steppers/servos
various wire, amount and type varies with design specifications, but can be narrowed down when all the components above are selected.
I recommend some DIN mountable terminals, probably you will need about 25-50 of them; it makes wiring considerably easier to manage
You'll need at least one 3 foot (1 meter) DIN rail for mounting the controller and the terminal kit that should be purchased with or included with the controller (depending on which controller; two DIN rails will be needed if you go with the additional DIN mountable terminals for easier wiring

That's the basic list without knowing any special features you may be thinking of. From the drawing, I'm assuming it's a 4 motor setup with two slaved motors moving the gantry. I'm also not very knowledgeable about THC systems, so I can't say if there are additional electronics needed for the torch system other than an on/off system (can you vary the output or do you just set the speed to control the depth of pass?).

I also forgot to consider the rotary axis, which I don't really see in the drawings. If you want to slave two motors for the gantry motion, plus have a rotary axis, you'll need to go with the IP-S because it would be a 5 axis setup and the IP-M only has 4. Can you describe what you would be doing for the rotary axis?

Many thanks for your time & input.

I need to add here i am back by almost 15 days on my design, post #1, as a courtesy, the plug n play system provider could at least explicitly state on his website countries to which he does not ship, rather than getting automated messages for mails.

Further digging around led me to ethernet & AC servo direction.

I would have to note, I have read & reread your retrofit thread on cs-control forum, in a way it helped me a lot, even though my knowledge on electronics part of the build is almost zero.

On the table specs,

Plasma Table Features:

1. Plasma Torch, Oxy Torch, Air Scribe

2. Occasionally used for engine turning, set up like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=341mObTmk2k

3. Auto ignition & fuel supplycontrol option for oxy setup, a good discussion & ideas can be found here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...iscussion.html

4. Proposed THC to be used can be found here Compact THC MD ? Plasma Z axis Controller with Motor Driver | Proma Elektronika

5. Rotary axis to cut rounds/squares/rectangle

So that makes 5 motors (axis) with one slaved to move the gantry.
Pretty sure i need IP-S or IP-A, but i need to decide which among this.

The gantry weighs pretty heavy, plan to use it for routing also, weighs about 300kg with all added weight (approx 700LB), planning to use AC servo 750 watts 2nos (2.4Nm holding torque @3000rpm peak torque 7.1Nm), I hope my calculations holds good to achieve roughly 17 to 20 mtr/min (Approx 800ipm) rapids.

Got a decent price from MotionKing (China)_Stepper Motors, Servo Motors, Stepping Motors, Step Motors, Stepping Motors Drivers, brushless Motors need to still study a bit on their drives, not very clear on Input options available.

Motor geared down 10:1 using inline gear head. Max 300rpm at shaft end. Pinion size 25mm(approx) or may be 11:1 ratio gear head with bigger pinion on 1.5 module Atlanta racks.

X & Y linear guides 25mm & z 15mm from Hiwin

Rotary axis yet to be detailed.

Router table same specs without floating z axis.
3.5Kw water cooled spindel(china for sure, cant afford those Italian stuff)

X & Y carriage to be stressed relieved for both tables.

Software:

Mach 3
Sheetcam
Meshcam or Vetric or Deskproto (may be two of them)
CNCWrapper
DIGITAL PIPE FITTER or Bendtech (not sure if they can handle Sqr/Rect)

all mechanic components like LM guides/racks/steel procured, yet to order aluminum plates(z axis)
Z also driven by same motor specs, could change it on budget concerns. 20mm ball screw on plasma & 25 on router.

Will update rotary arrangement soon.

Servo drive input mode parameters are Speed control mode or position control mode, need to figure out IP-S or IP-A suites my application.

Now Am i doing something wrong????:boxing::boxing:

The only real difference between the IP-A and the IP-S is the type of servo drive you operate with them, and consequently the way that the encoders feed back to the controller (or don't in the case of the IP-S). The IP-A sends an analog signal to the servo drives, and the encoder signals go back to the IP-A. The IP-S sends step/direction signals and the encoder signals are sent to the servo or stepper drives, not the IP-S.

The main significant advantage to the IP-A over the IP-S is the encoder feedback. The IP-A is able to read the feedback directly and it knows the exact position of the machine regardless of the state of the motors. If the motors are off and the machine moves, the IP-A will track the movement and update the position. If the motors are off and the machine moves with the IP-S, the change of position will not be recorded at all. Also, if there are missed steps by the motors in the IP-S, the controller will not know that they were missed. If the motors do not position the machine correctly in the IP-A, the controller will know that the target position was missed and may even shut down if the cumulative error in position exceeds your maximum error tolerance. The IP-A will also position itself to the exact same home position using the Index On Home feature, which is more difficult to implement with the IP-S (the servo drive would have to have a Home signal for the IP-S to do the same function).

Based on those differences, my recommendation is for the IP-A. However, the IP-A requires servo drives that can take a +/-10 volt signal and those drives typically cost a little more than standard Step/Direction servo drives. I would expect to pay an extra $500 (US) for your servos/drives at minimum vs. if you went with the IP-S. You'll have to decide if the additional positioning accuracy and ease of precise homing is worth that to you. If not, the IP-S is probably the way to go as there are many more options for servo/stepper drives/motors with Step/Direction inputs.

It seems IP-A is the way to go, will tack to my supplier & update more. Thanks again for your time.
The guys from CS-LAB have written back with their drive & THC recommendation.
Will get Back soon.

Quick update, sourcing parts from "China" sellers through "Aliexpress" or "Ebay" it seems is not only risky but could drill a huge hole in your pocket which most "DIY" friends cant afford, if do it right for the first time is what you would be looking for, stay away from shady dealers & their crap products.

Strongly advised not to source servo products from a company called "Lead Shine", pretty well maintained website, but mostly what they sell seems to be on paper. Their website lists all that's available in the planet in servo range, but the mail reply received from their rep shockingly accepts their incapability to supply anything beyond 750watts!!!!!!!!!

P.S: Not all manufacturers from China or products of China is crap.
This is my personal opinion & not that of CNCZONE or its members.

Very nice research you have there, im studying to make my own plasma table for 2 years now and im still stuck on servos vs steppers.

I will follow your build with enthusiasm.

Regards

Anil,
If you go with the IP-A controller, maybe you can check with Zapp Automation about shipping to your area. Here's a 2000 watt servo drive that will accept a +/- 10v analog signal such as that output by the IP-A. I would consult with them regarding what motors to go with it based on your needs. I think that if you want decent quality motors/drives, you have to plan that it will cost a bit more than the Chinese stuff, as you said earlier. Still, for around $3000-$3500 US (not sure what the pricing is for you), it's amazing that you can get a decent analog servos system including motors, drives and controller, especially considering that it would include feedback to the controller.

For encoders, I'm trying out these cheaper ones which run about $40 each here. So far, they are reading correctly in the CSMIO IP-A and look quite promising without costing too much. They are designed by a company here in the U.S., but I'm not sure where they are made.

CUI AMT102-V Encoder KIT and 6 feet Cable | Automation Technology Inc


http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/k...vo-driver.html

MMOE...Your inputs are really encouraging......I have decided to go with Panasonic or Delta, all 0.75Kw.....Costing me about INR45000/($750), the drives can take both analog & step/direction input, I have sized my servo, the sizing info has been shared with forum members on the following link.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma...formation.html

Mselect works pretty good & simple for servo sizing. Getting pretty good numbers for 400Kg gantry weight at about 25mtr rapids.

Found this pendant ShuttleRU_STM32 looks pretty cool at $259 US.

Plasma build will take back seat for a while:(...Funding issues...

ISMASTAR.......Thanks for your encouragement.....I will need your wishes & inputs....I sailed in the same boat for quite some time, Servo is the way to go.....It gives you more flexibility........But again it all depends on your gantry weight n other factors.....In box me if you need my setup DXF files :)