Backplot Info-tab: Machining time doesn't display

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08-31-2011, 07:13 AM
polarbeer

Backplot Info-tab: Machining time doesn't display

Hi,

A newbie question. I'm running X5 at my school and I have chosen default mill machine definition. I have made some contour and pocket toolpaths. When I run backplot and want to check total machining time using backplot dialog's time info, the area of time info is blank very often. If I change toolpath parameters time info appears sometimes. I don't see any logic why info is sometimes displayed and sometimes not. (Also selecting/deselecting different runs or operations in backplot dialog's "tree" doesn't seem to work consistently.)

What could be causing these problems or am I doing something wrong? :(

If there's is any other way of checking times to fine tune your machining strategy I'm all ears. :)

Thanks for your time and help!

-pb
08-31-2011, 02:28 PM
mafitch7479

You're expanding the backplot window (2 blue arrows pointing down), and then clicking on the "info" tab, right?

And I don't think the backplot time is very accurate for many machining scenarios, usually the backplot time shows quite a bit less time than it actually takes. I think adjusting the machine definition parameters in MCam can fix that though, not sure.
08-31-2011, 05:33 PM
polarbeer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafitch7479

You're expanding the backplot window (2 blue arrows pointing down), and then clicking on the "info" tab, right?

Yes, and thanks "mafitch7479" for replying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafitch7479

And I don't think the backplot time is very accurate for many machining scenarios, usually the backplot time shows quite a bit less time than it actually takes. I think adjusting the machine definition parameters in MCam can fix that though, not sure.

Yes, I don't mind if backplot time isn't super accurate. I just want some kind of estimate to be in "right ball park". If I have understood it right, user should for example check tool change time of the machine he is using and fill in that info into machine definition etc. The more accurate and realistic all data in machine definition is - more accurate are backplot time estimations.

As a newbie CAM user I just want to be able to compare roughly different tool path types to find the "best" strategy for the job.

I noticed one interesting thing when trying to solve this "Info tab machining time" -problem. When I made a 2D drawing and added a simple Countour toolpath to it everything worked all right as long as I chose COMPUTER as the compensation type. When I changed into CONTROL as compensation type all time info disappeared from backplot dialog. Tool also crossed the contour during Lead In and Lead Out moves although Gouge check was checked! (I did this test at home with Mastercam X5 Demo version.)

-pb
08-31-2011, 06:51 PM
mafitch7479

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbeer

Yes, and thanks "mafitch7479" for replying.

I noticed one interesting thing when trying to solve this "Info tab machining time" -problem. When I made a 2D drawing and added a simple Countour toolpath to it everything worked all right as long as I chose COMPUTER as the compensation type. When I changed into CONTROL as compensation type all time info disappeared from backplot dialog. Tool also crossed the contour during Lead In and Lead Out moves although Gouge check was checked! (I did this test at home with Mastercam X5 Demo version.)

-pb

Interesting, I wonder if that's a bug in the Demo version? I just tried changing a contour path from computer to control and had no problem with the backplot time showing up, and no problem with the tool going places it shouldn't
08-31-2011, 11:57 PM
Superman

Quote:

expanding the backplot window (2 blue arrows pointing down), and then clicking on the "info" tab,

This should give global times of the selected operations, step in a couple of moves ,,, times then may come up for you

HINTS
- in the dialog window that shows the backplot operations, you can select individual operations to get individual times, instead of going in & out of backplot all the time
- you can also place the tool on a displayed path by L-cklick --- very similar to a restart on the machine control to check tool positioning against geometry that is drawn on-screen
09-01-2011, 10:05 AM
polarbeer

5 Attachment(s)

Thse are my results so far

I don't believe this is just Demo-version problem.

Here are some screen captures to tell exactly what I did with Mastercam X5 Demo (14.0.4.34).

First picture shows with red color the path I created.

Then I chose default mill machine definition to start creating actual tool path. After choosing CONTOUR tool path and chaining the red path, ONLY places I made any changes in parameters dialog were:

1) Choosing 16 FLAT ENDMILL as tool from default library. (Feed rate: 537 mm/min, Splindle speed 1790 RPM, Plunge rate: 268.5 mm/min, Rapid retract CHECKED etc. Nothing changed from these default values.)

2) Changing Compensation type between: COMPUTER or CONTROL. (Attached pictures showing results. Control option causing Backplot to be unable to calculate machining time!)

3) Deselecting "Enter/Exit at midpoint in closed contours" and increasing line length of entry and exit moves from 100 % into 200 % to "stress" gouge check feature more clearly.

4) At Linking parameters page changing DEPTH into value -5 mm (incremental).

Do other users get similar results?

-pb

(PS. Sorry for Finnish UI =)
09-01-2011, 02:27 PM
mafitch7479

I've tried switching multiple different toolpaths to the control comp, and the time always shows up. I wonder if it's not something to do with your Control Definition in MCam? Perhaps there's a setting in there that's not correct.
09-02-2011, 09:08 AM
polarbeer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafitch7479

I've tried switching multiple different toolpaths to the control comp, and the time always shows up. I wonder if it's not something to do with your Control Definition in MCam? Perhaps there's a setting in there that's not correct.

Hi mafitch7479!

Did you (or anybody else) draw the exact same figure I attached in my previous post? I'm not always getting these problems with countour toolpaths and control compensation type. It seems to me that very simple toolpaths work okay, but more detailed are more prone to errors.

I don't know much about machine and control definitions, so there might be a setting that's not correct.

I also noticed previously that Backplot doesn't always show lead out moves correctly with control as compensation type. (Arc part of lead out move wasn't displayed at all.) However when I posted my toolpath into G-code, lead out moves seemed to be coded like I wanted them to be.

So Backplot part of Mastercam hasn't convinced me so far. :tired:

-pb
09-02-2011, 01:59 PM
mafitch7479

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbeer

Hi mafitch7479!

Did you (or anybody else) draw the exact same figure I attached in my previous post? I'm not always getting these problems with countour toolpaths and control compensation type. It seems to me that very simple toolpaths work okay, but more detailed are more prone to errors.

I don't know much about machine and control definitions, so there might be a setting that's not correct.

I also noticed previously that Backplot doesn't always show lead out moves correctly with control as compensation type. (Arc part of lead out move wasn't displayed at all.) However when I posted my toolpath into G-code, lead out moves seemed to be coded like I wanted them to be.

So Backplot part of Mastercam hasn't convinced me so far. :tired:

-pb

can you just attach your file and I'll take a look at it? I'm no MCam expert by any means, but if I can't figure it out I'm sure someone here can
09-04-2011, 09:16 AM
polarbeer

1 Attachment(s)

Hi!

Here is the file. It is made with Demo version so *.EMCX-5 extension. If a "undemo" version is needed I probably can make one at school tomorrow. (There are some hidden layers.)

-pb
09-05-2011, 08:03 AM
polarbeer

1 Attachment(s)

Hi!

Here is similar file made in *.MCX-5 format.

-pb
09-06-2011, 05:23 PM
mafitch7479

I'll take a look at them tomorrow if I'm back to work.
09-07-2011, 03:12 PM
mafitch7479

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbeer

Hi!

Here is similar file made in *.MCX-5 format.

-pb

Interesting. I get the same thing with no time shown in the backplot window, and that's using my own machine configuration. It must have something to do with using the control comp though, as that also alters the position of the displayed toolpath (not where the tool actually runs in backplot though).

Here's what I would do:

Make an account on emastercam.com forums and ask in the Industrial Forum section on there. Those guys are far more versed in the operations of MCam and should be able to answer your question, or at least point you in the right direction.
09-08-2011, 12:50 PM
Superman

The calculated path when "Control" comped, is NOT the actual path the machine would take while running the program.

There are many factors that could add or subtract time from the "Profile path"
-it does not include the strange paths that some machine use when leading into & out of comp
- nor does it allow for shortened distances on internal features ( ie internal sharp corners ), & extended moves on external ones

ie
take a 1" square
perimiter = 4"
table feed = 4" per minute
===== this should give 1 minute cycle time

---------now use a 2" cutter to profile it
toolpath distance ( sharp corner mode ) = 12"
===== 3 minute cycle
toolpath distance (round corner mode ) = 10.2831"
===== 2.57 minute cycle

but all those times would be different if I decided to use a 1.5" cutter

The only time you would get a reasonable estimation is where it is a tool centerline path ( ie using computer, wear, rev wear, or OFF )