Chinese CNC Syntec 6MA my experience

My Name is Lee I work for a Sign Company in New Zealand, We recently purchased an ATC CNC from China which has a Syntec 6MA control system, for the most part I have been extremely happy with our purchase, Although we have had a few minor teething issues most of which were reasonably easy to fix. I have been following the threads on the Chinese CNC's and the other syntec users. I thought perhaps I would share my experience for CNC Chinese purchasers and perhaps document my experience as well as help out others who are using the same control system. Perhaps also share video's for those who would like help with a function or like more of an explanation into what I have done.


A little background:


The Machine we purchased was a 3000mm x 15000mm ATC CNC with a 9KW HSD air cooled spindle, Yaskawa Servo's, Delta Inverter, THK rails, Helical rack, 8 Tool ATC rotary changer, Eisele speed reducer with the Syntec 6MA control system, Automatic Oiling System and 2x Becker 3.140 oiless vacuum pumps. There were many options we tried to choose the better of what was available wherever possible based on my research




First things first a list of small and basic problems and fixes


1 ~ Due to the size of the package that was delivers and the height of the machine the cover over the spindle was removed for transport. On refitting the cover I realised that the holes were slightly misaligned so that the cover rubbed when moving up and down, slotting a couple of the holes and using spring washers to secure it in position fixed this


2 ~ The left hand limit switch on the gantry was positioned a little low, about 2mm, enough so that intermitantly when going to do a tool change it would accidentally trip one of the limit switches and bring up an error on the controller


3 ~ when the unit traveled across to the ATC using the MDI input it did not come down to the correct height, meaning that the tool changer would move out to capture the tool and miss it on the bottom by about 10mm, this alignment is controlled by a parameter value the 2nd Z reference. By changing parameter 2803 from -129085 to -119085 this corrected the misalignment


4 ~ Because I had order the machine with 2 vacuum pumps instead of 1 it should have been wired for 2 pumps but was set up for on 1 as it was tested in the factory with their shop pump and not our new German pumps, which came still crated from Germany. On closer inspection the power handling for it was decided to be inefficient for the purpose so we change the wiring in the cabinet, swapping the single contactor for a relay and mounting 2 contactors in a separate box in the small room attached to the Router room that was set up to carry the dust extraction, vacuum pumps and compressor. This setup means the Chinese cabinet now works as a switch instead of directly switching the 3 phase high voltage supply.


5 ~ There were a couple of air leaks attached to the vacuum system where hoses were positioned on slight angles, less a design flaw more of a bit of careless assembly.


6 ~ The tool holders supplied were quite burred, really they looked good but they needed to be cleaned and lubed properly before we could use them.


7 ~ The automatic oiler had a leak at the container end and was dripping when used, a little thread tape fixed this.


8 ~ The automatic oiler had a distribution block with 4 taps to control the flow when pressurising the oil system, there was no documentation as to which tap controlled which area, we figured this out by process of elimination.


9 ~ The feed speed of the machine was restricted to 5000mm / min. No matter what speed was programmed in the G Code the machine would not cut faster than 5m/min. Again another parameter 405 controlled the maximum feed rate which restricted any program value. Changed this to 15000 which fixed this. Mainly was because I have a 55mm fly cutter for surfacing the spoil board and at 5m/min was taking ages.


10 ~ The rapid travel was also restricted Parameters 461 - 463 control the x, y and z rapid speeds respectively. I left the Z axis alone as speed on Z isn't really an issue


11 ~ Setup the network after a bit of fiddling and basically no documentation


12 ~ Managed to decipher the auto tool height setup with another parameter adjustment. Parameter 3411 controls the height of the auto tool touch to the table. Later I will explain the process possibly with a video if people are interested.




Now set up I can happily cut out ACM, Acrylic and I even skimmed some heavy plastic from an engineers shop that they wanted thinner, using my fly cutter cutting it down to 4.8mm from 6mm so all in all seems to be working.


Any questions I might be able to help with on the Syntec 6MA perhaps I we can share or if anyone has any tips or tricks I'm always keen to learn


Cheers
Lee

So the obvious question is which cnc brand did you choose? But good to hear about syntec controller being good. Thank. GF

The brand is XYZ Machinery, I actually saw a post about another company called XYZ Tech but they seem to be two different companies, I would not say the machine is pristine by any stretch of the imagination, but the components we bought seem to be good so all in all a good machine. All be it a few small issues.

Cheers
Lee

New information on the Syntec 6MA front, checking my software today and looking at the spindle moving I made the assumption that although I may have put in 5000rpm in my G-Code the actual speed seemed to be much faster. I had no way of testing this theory till I picked up a digital tachometer. I found that there had been a mistake in a parameter in the Syntec control software, specifically parameter 1671, which seems to work like a multiplier in conjunction with the VFD controlling the spindle. Together they match the programmed spindle speed to the VFD so that the output is correct.

A better explanation is to say that I would put in 1000rpm in the G Code and the Syntec would actually be doing 4000rpm ( Checking it with the digital tachometer )

After adjusting the parameter the spindle speed in the Syntec controller and the actual speed now match.

There is also a parameter 1801 that controls the maximum speed of the spindle, obviously for protection but if it is set too low then it will restrict anything in the G Code set above the value stored in that parameter

Hopefully this may come in useful to someone

Cheers
Lee

looks like you lucked in the one I got was a lump of poo different company.

a lot of the out fits over there just copy each other,and have all most the same names.

The equipment is good but the setup leaves a lot to be desired, fortunately for me the majority of the problems I had were settings and parameters etc, kind of not very well set up in the factory, I realise things move and change over the distance traveled but mostly this was just a lack of care and attention in the setup process. With a little help from CNC Zone and a lot of reading most were an easy fix

Cheers
Lee

mine was about $10,000 in the end to get working right. but it worth more than what was pad for it know

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, we have kind of been down the road of buying chinese machines before so I knew what was to expect at the other end. We have a 2.5m wide UV Flatbed printer from china as well. It had a number of teething issues but we have had it for 7 years now and it has put through a power of work, the purchase price was approximately 1/4 of a european or american machine. Its fairly mechanical but once you know the systems in operating it the basics work well. I have worked on a principle with both machines of buying good components and hoping to smooth out the rest.

My background is that I have 2 degrees, one in computer in information science, the other in electronic engineering. so generally I am faced with the problem of fixing anything that goes wrong with any of the machines at my work. With China effectively being the other side of the world for us, I knew getting service was basically going to be near impossible, they offer advice mostly, I take the advice and try and derive a solution, using resources of friends, contacts and of cource CNC zone which has been an invaluable help.

Cheers
Lee

mine ended up being 3/4 the cost after all the fix`s having been done that includes softwear. I would do it again as I know how to fix them now

Finished cutting some 40mm Plastic today. A design for a conveyor rail given to me by a neighboring Engineering shop, Machine was cutting out ( 4x ) 520mm x 40mm parts with 5 different tool changes, two different drill cycles and a 45mm v carve, a slot cut the length of the part and countersunk bolt holes to sit below the level of the slot, including the 5 tool changes and considering the material was 40mm thick it tool just on 1hr to cut out the 4 parts, so approximately 15mins a part, all the parts were measured afterwards and found to be extremely accurate. Very impressed at the speed and quality of the job considering all the factors

now to try and do it with less tool changes

Lee, could you post the link to the company you bought from if possible? I'd be interested to get a price.

hello, frined, we Jinan Sudiao CNC Router Co., Ltd, mainly sell ATC cnc router for 10 years, our Atc is also use with Taiwan Syntec 6MA control system.
Our web is Jinan Sudiao CNC Router Co., Ltd. - cnc router,cnc engraver, My skype is exportcncrouter, Email: [email protected] , here attached a picture of the mahcine
Attachment 273142

Actually the tool changes only take a fraction of the time, using the correct tool for each part of the job saves a lot of time instead of using one tool and doing many passes because it is not the correct tool for the job, for example : One of the holes is a 17mm hole that has a specific angle for countersinking the cap screws at the bottom, by using this drill sharpened to the specific angle I can use one tool in one motion to do the job of a smaller mill that might have been used for another part of the job but would have taken longer...the automatic tool changer has all the tool heights measured automatically and it changes in a matter of seconds so I just set the workpiece origin and tell it to go do the job and then walk away, it does all the tool changes and I can go back to my desk and start working on another design while it is doing all the work for me

The Company I used is called XYZ Machinery. I can say that like most Chinese companies I have dealt with before there had been minor issues but I have managed to sort them myself with help from this forum and a few friends. Even the Syntec System which people seemed unsure of I have found to be robust and never once had an issue or a crash with.

http://www.xyz-tech.com/

If you decide to go with them my suggestion is to buy the best components they have, in that I mean THK Rails, 9KW HSD Spindle, Becker Oiless Vacuum Pumps (we bought 2 for reliability and to split the load, if one goes down you can still run), Helical rack, Large German style standup cabinet, 8 tool carousel changer.

If you are interested by all means contact me and we can have a chat sometime and I will explain a little more

Cheers
Lee

This is the contact details of the person I dealt with she was very personable.

Ellie Huang
Overseas Sales
No.7 Qian fo Mountain East 2nd Rd.
Jinan Shandong 250014 P.R. China
Tel: (86)531 82664477, Fax (86) 531 82984477
Mob/WhatsApp: (86)13589064319
Skype: ellie_xyz-tech
WeChat: ellieh58

Email: [email protected]
http://www.xyz-tech.com

Thanks, I have a generic request in but I'll contact her. Did you get the P2 or a variation?

We bought a P2, but there were a tonne of options to choose from, the difference in cost was minimal for each choice, spindle size, rail type, helical rack, cabinet type, speed reducer, pump type

They are fairly adaptable about getting what you want

Cheers
Lee

Hi Lee, another question. What led you to choose them? I have a quote from omni as well (and now a quote from xyz). I haven't got enough specs to tell if it's totally apples to apples but just curious what you major decisions points were between suppliers. Omni has a bit more activity here but that only counts for so much.

Edit: Also on the 1530 size can you machine up to 1575 (or at least 1550) x 3075mm? In North America our plastic stock is in 61" -62" sheets for a nominal 5' wide and 120" for a 10" long (and 3000mm is only 119.5"). I've asked Ellie but you have a machine on the floor and aren't part of the sales department so...

Thanks, Graham

Ok 2 part question I will try and give you both 1st to do with the size

The effective size of the bakalite vacuum table is 1500 x 3000 on the machine that we got the 1530 code meaning exactly that 15(00) x 30(00)

However Although this might be true, there are 2 things to consider, you can fit a sheet on that would be 1550mm wide and even as great as 4m long, although for cutting you can't really cut more than the 1500 x 3000 limit. It is worth considering if you are cutting something out of a sheet, how often would it be that you would actually have to cut the full width or length of the sheet, I would say almost never. You are normally cutting in the middle or around or within the area with a boarder. Also if you feel it wasn't big enough pretty sure they make a 2m x 4m machine.




As to the choice of manufacturer I would say a lot of the stuff seems copied or even duplicated from one Chinese manufacturer to another.

Consider it from another direction then. If you accept many of the setups for the machines are kind of the same it comes down to a few factors

Reliability of the build and quality of the components.

When I searched around I was looking for certain things, that is to say, what were the best spindles, rails, motors, pumps, control system and electronics available. Reliability comes from two factors, build quality and quality of the components used. Standing on the other side of the world and not having seen the machines in person it is difficult to judge the build quality so you can only study pictures and videos and decide what looks the best. As far as the components most Chinese manufacturers list an array of parts, after reading here and other sources I came to the following conclusions

THK are one of the best if not the best rail manufacturers, which makes for smooth travel of the gantry

Helical Rack is the best style of traverse for the Y axis ( across the gantry )

HSD spindles are some of the best in the world and favored by many Chinese, European and American manufacturers

Yaskawa Servos are a top quality servo with smooth an accurate operation

German Becker pumps are actually a large company that have branches all over the world including the USA

The 8 tool ATC carousel used is of a better quality of some of the plastic tool holder ones that tend to break when slightly misaligned, the same is true of the linear tool changer. carousel style tool changes in general are less prone to inaccuracies and as the tool carousel is attached to the gantry the travel to change a tool is relatively short.

The Syntec control system is robust and an industrial controller that has been produced for many years the 6MA is just one of the latest variations on this. Although the documentation is a little sparse I have gathered and worked out enough that I can operate the machine effectively and control pretty much all facets of it. Considering I am relatively new to CNC in general I thought this was high praise for the system

Some of the companies that I checked had nice looking machines but couldn't or wouldn't supply the components I wanted.

Lastly when I spoke to Ellie from XYZ Machinery I asked her for names of some customers that she had sold machines to. She gave me two more recent sales, one that had gone to a manufacturer in texas who had a head office in New York. I spoke to a production manager who said the machine pretty much ran nearly 24/7 for 6 months and they had had no major failures of the system. Which I thought was pretty high praise. The other was a manufacturer in Australia who had bought a spanner changer model. He pretty much said the same thing.

If you buy a machine from China I would urge you to consider the following

1. When you get it there will probably be minor things wrong with it, adjustments that are out, things that have been knocked in transit alignment of some parts not 100% most of these things are relatively easy to fix with a little machine/engineering knowledge

2. Getting service from the other side of the world is difficult at best if you are confident to fix the odd thing then no problems otherwise if you are totally not a hands on person then local supplies have local service for some that's a better option.

3. None of the machines that you purchase for maybe a 3rd of the cost of an American or European Machine will be as finished or as polished as their western counterparts. However if you buy good quality components to start with then you are at least in a position where most things are fixable. And good quality components although sometimes a little more expensive pay for themselves over time.

Personally I would suggest you use these points and shop around. At the time when I was looking XYZ Machinery ticked all these boxes for me, I can also say since then I have seen some other manufacturers that do things good as well. So I leave that up to you


Cheers
Lee

Thanks Lee. We've been down this road for laser cutters so we have an idea but good advice.

And thanks for the bed size information. As long as the sheet fits without hitting the gantry it should be OK but sometimes these things are limited in software and can be modified slightly.