CNC Newbie with Milltronics Question

First I'd like to say I'm new to the site and CNC's. I work at a machine shop that has 2 fadals CNC milling machines, 3 okada CNC milling machines, and 3 cincinnati CNC lathes. All I have ever worked on was the manual machines. My question is a customer of ours came to me and asked if I was interested in a Milltronics Centurion 4 Partner 4 I think it was. Is this an ok machine for the garage? Small runs? He said it is G-code and Conversational. All of this is foriegn to me. Are they hard to learn? Can parts still be gotten for them? Hes asking 2200, is that a good price? I was looking at some of the stuff the guys are making the CNC routers for and this just seemed like something I could get without the hasell of making a hobby machine, and be as cheap. All and any help or information would be great.
Thanks,
Mike

Rcurry23,
In my opinion I would stay away from the Centurion 4. Milltronics didn't make them for very long and they haven't been supported for many years. You won't be able to get much technical support in learning to run it, and next to NO support if you ever (and you will) have to troubleshoot and repair it.
There are better investments for $2200 for a beginner, just be patient and keep looking. This is a good website for smaller CNC's and hobbyist CNC's that are GREAT learning tools and you could possibly end up making some money on smaller parts to save up for when you're ready to move to some real CNC iron.
With today's market, there ARE some better used CNC machines than the one you're looking at..... unfortunately the shipping may bust your budget.

Hey thanks for the quick reply. I'll keep looking.

I know this is not in the right section, but if someone could point me there, that would be geat.
I have this mill, or one very, very similar. I clicked on this link and this came up:
http://www.cncmasters.com/Mill_Drill...ofit%20Kit.htm

Is there a section on here that could walk me through doing this to mine without the cost. If I were to buy the components and convert it myself to CNC.

I just clicked on the "Search" link (difficult to find at first, buried in with other links) towards the top of this page and typed in cncmasters.com and there are many threads in multiple forums listed. Some guys are pretty picky about posting in the correct forum. Don't let their harshness get to you but follow suggestions leading to the right forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rcurry23

Hey thanks for the quick reply. I'll keep looking.

I know this is not in the right section, but if someone could point me there, that would be geat.
I have this mill, or one very, very similar. I clicked on this link and this came up:
http://www.cncmasters.com/Mill_Drill...ofit%20Kit.htm

Is there a section on here that could walk me through doing this to mine without the cost. If I were to buy the components and convert it myself to CNC.

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You have not told us what you want to make on the mill. A lot depends on that. I assume you know what a real machine can do because you said you see them at work. But what you may not see is just what a mill-drill can and can't do.

That mill-drill is not similar to the Milltronics you posted at the top. If you are looking for a machine to cut little parts very slowly in soft metals then sure go for the mill-drill but if you need to cut steel I would suggest the Milltronics you talked about above.

$2200 for an old Mill like that is a normal price but price is not the only consideration. If it is in working condition and the owner is close by so that the moving costs are low and the owner is willing to help you get started, then it could be a really good way to go.

Go over and talk to the Milltronics owner and see the machine. There are several people here on this forum that can help you trouble shoot problems on the Milltronics machine. It sounds like you are not afraid of getting your hands dirty because you are talking about making a CNC machine on your own. IMHO, you will be miles ahead starting with the Milltronics if it is in good condition.

The Milltronics interface is simple and learning to program it to make parts is not difficult.

Lots of people are happy with mill-drill CNCs but many out grow them too fast and they really have no resale value if they are home made.


Cheers
SF

For $2200 bones you may be getting a real bargain. The Centurion IV's were
mounted onto some pretty decent iron. They do however come in many configurations. If it's a CAT40 spindle taper machine it will outcut any bridgeport-style handmill or any mill-drill. I've owned one for close to ten years and it's still running a few days week for me. Parts can be found on
Ebay and there are alot of people in the CncZone who can help you out
with problems. Go see it in person and if it is a running machine, $2200 is
a good price. Search Ebay, you won't see a Centurion IV go for that cheap.

Ben
COBRO Mfg.

Ok, thanks for the replies. And yes it is a working machine. As I said before I work at a shop loaded with CNC's. So knowing what they can and can't do is not a problem. As far as what I'll be cutting. I only plan on cutting aluminum and plastics. Notice I said PLAN, don't know what I will end up cutting, but thats what I plan on cutting. The guy selling it has three of these Milltronics, and his brother has one. And yes he said he would help me out anytime. He lives about three hours from me, so its not that far and I can go pick it up. He builds the same type of thing we do at my work. And this is the machine that got him started. He has just gotten alot bigger and he said the milltronics don't get used as much as they did. Thanks again for the replies!

What ever you buy, do try and avoid a round ram mill/drill. Most of the decent bench top mills(square column) are going to run you $2200+ and more to get CNC capability. The frustration will be a test on your patience in a light duty mill when you are used to industrial standards.

Old worn out manual Bridgeport's fetch that much. The Milltronics could be retrofitted and most of the hard parts are already there. That would be a great learning experience if you have the funds to support it, space to keep it and motivation to see it through when it is required. Other than that use it as is.

At least have the owner run it through pocketing a circle and facing a 6"x6" plate. That can tell you quite a bit about its cutting integrity in terms of circular and flat planes.

Make sure you obtain a copy of the manuals. Between lost operators manuals and maintenance information, including schematics. Having no information or rare second hand information on very old and somewhat archaic legacy controls, is where many a "good buy" should have become a "good bye"! LOL!

DC

I talked to the seller again about the machine and I will write what he told me, which most of it makes no sense to me but. He said it was a 1989 Model Milltronics with a Centurion 4, and a Partner 3. It is G-code and Conversational. It has 30 Taper (?) and has a phase converter. Thats all I got out of it while he was talking. What else do I need to find out from him before making a decision. He did say the machine needed to be repainted, but I think I could handle that.

If the iron is in good shape, it could be a great deal.

Consider converting it to a newer PC controller (which it pretty much is already, probably 286/386 class computer) and run it with mach 3.

30 taper is not as common as 40, but is still a bit more rigid than R8.

Depending on your willingness to learn the guts, it could be OK as is, or could be updated into a fairly effective machine.

CHEERS
Trev

Those old machines always need something done to them. You need to be OK with that because that is what you get for $2200. But the fact that you have a person close enough to help with it if a problem comes up is a very positive thing, as is this forum.

The machine is probably 3 phase 220V. Find out about that first. Then you will need a phase converter. Maybe he was saying it would come with one. Check on that. Of course it does not matter if you have 3 phase power at your house but that is not likely.

If it is a cat30 taper spindle you can get tool holders on Ebay really cheep.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-BALAS-END...QQcmdZViewItem

Cheers
Dave

My machine is a Centurion iv 1986 model and is still a runner.
Everyone's advice on this matter has been pretty sound.
Go and see it, listen to it, and let the guy run it. Check and see how
he is saving his programs. The Centurion IV's used tape cartridges, floppy
discs and RS-232 port to interact with your PC. The RS-232 port would be
preferred, and if it has one have him show you it uploads and downloads
programs.

Being a Partner 3, it most likely has a variable speed head like a Bridgeport
mill, ie. you have to change speeds manually. Mine has a Yaskawa spindle
drive which allows RPM changes via the program, this would be a plus.

One last thing, the monitors on these machines can be a little shaky, take
a good at the screen while it's idle and while it's running. If the screen
jumps about while running it probably has some issues with the monitor
(CRT).

If it all checks out good, $2200 is a cheap price to get your feet wet.

Ben
COBRO mfg

The drives on the older machines are almost impossible to find! Milltronics no longer supports Cent 4 controls. 2200. isn't a bad investment. Just remember finding parts when it goes down is not going to be an overnight fix!

out**cold is right, it is a good idea to keep your ear to the ground for parts. Like putting an ebay auto search on the drive card etc. If a drive card goes bad you may have to have it repaired.

Were I in those shoes, I would be researching what it took, and hoarding the parts together, to do a full conversion to a newer computer. When something craps out, or you have the stuff together, you convert, then flog the removed goods to recoup some of the costs.

Just me, though.

I kinda like the idea of having 3 axis (or four) on tap, as opposed to 2. Mach3 is cheap, and there are quite a few affordable cad/cam programs around that will allow you to produce stuff that you definately won't make running the older controller.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

I was able to buy an entire Centurion IV control with drives on Ebay for
$400.00. I haven't had to use any of the parts yet, but someday........
Anyway, there is a CNCZONE member "CAPTAINASTY" who maintains that the company that made the drives is still in business and he has had his drives repaired as needed. Another member has told me profixrepair.com can repair
the drives.
Just somemore info
Ben
COBRO Mfg.

I am also a newbie to CNC and bought a 1984 model partner 3 with Milltronics centurian IV controls. One of the big reasons that I bought this machine is because it was in the local area and so I saved the shipping cost.

I contacted Milltronics for a service manual and for about $100 I got some photocopies of some of the pages. At least they had the setup parameters!

My machine had a Lovejoy electronics varible speed drive that I couldn't get to run so I replaced it with a Hitachi SJ200 (from ebay of course) The Hitachi not only provides variable speed but is also a phase converter. It can also be run from the G codes, when I get that far. Currently I am running the machine in manual (joystick) mode.

I intend at some time to replace the electronics with something newer. I would like to keep the drive cards and servo motors since they are OK and seem to be heavy duty.

If anyone has done this or a similar conversion I would appreciate any do or don't advice!

Thanks

Do your research!

The servo's I would expect to be useable, but may not be, due to changes in format and wiring requirements.

The cards, I would expect to cause the most problems, as they are likely in a format that is difficult to find support for. ISA card slots are tough to find at all on a motherboard, let alone the concept of finding an up to date computer with three of them available, these days, and drivers for them that will work with a modern motherboard, even tougher to find.

These are a couple things that come to mind, without having done a conversion myself.

Cheers
Trevor Jones