[GITRDUN]

Im seriously considering replacing some '82 model Mazak H-15 dual pallet indexing machines with some late '90s model Haas HS-1's.

The plus side is the the newer machines will change tools faster, change pallets faster, are dramatically much simpler to operate and program for average skill level operators, and certainly be much less maintenance to keep them up and running. Obviously a 15 year old machine will require some maintenance but brushless servos and not running all mechanical actuators on hydraulics would be a major improvement.

The H-15's were way past their prime 10 years ago and the loss of production due to maintenance and requiring a higher skilled operator to recover the machine from a typical hiccup has become a major headache. Its time to put them out to pasture.

So my question is if anyone has any experience with late '90s Haas dual pallet indexer machines, what are the common problems with these machines. Do the pallet changers work on pneumatic actuators or from hydraulic actuators? A CNC repair man i trust told me once that they had lots of problems with the Haas horizontals but i have been extremely pleased with their verticals. We have been buying their verticals since the mid '90s and they are all still rigid and running daily.

[underthetire]

The early Haas horizontals were quite problematic when new.

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[GITRDUN]

What do you consider the "early" machines and what specific problems? Im not sure how long they have made the horizontals, i would guess since the mid '90's but i dont know.

One other thing is the parts we machine on our current horizontals make a ton of chips due to a lot of face milling which creates large amounts of big chips in a hurry. I assume these machines are equipped with augers, would be kind of senseless to have a high production horizontal with no auger. So how do they fare at keeping chips from building up inside the machine?

[underthetire]

I remember them coming out late 90s. Lots of accuracy issues, lots of pallet clamping problems. Been a looong time now.

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[Precision MT]

I love them. I have a few customers that have them, one shop in particular has 6 of them. A cheap workhorse that will do what you ask of it as long as you understand their limitations and know how to get around their quirks. They are not as problematic as most people think, but they do have their issues. They are also not very rigid, but they are CHEAP. You can get a decent one today for 30 grand, no one wants them.

Thank you,

Phil

[extanker59]

I worked on a '90s Haas horizontal around '96 or so. Management sent it back after 3 or 4 months. They even had some Haas techs from California try to get the pallet changer to work. The issue at the time was this goofy screw that would screw up into the pallet and then clamp it down. The techs even tried having me brush anti-seize on the threads every time it jammed. It was very aggravating. So, if that one youre looking at has that type of pallet clamp, avoid at all costs IMO. However, I believe the clamping method has changed and is very reliable now.

[haastec]

I worked on a '90s Haas horizontal around '96 or so. Management sent it back after 3 or 4 months. They even had some Haas techs from California try to get the pallet changer to work. The issue at the time was this goofy screw that would screw up into the pallet and then clamp it down. The techs even tried having me brush anti-seize on the threads every time it jammed. It was very aggravating. So, if that one youre looking at has that type of pallet clamp, avoid at all costs IMO. However, I believe the clamping method has changed and is very reliable now.

I have had to deal with that pallet drawbar screw more than a few times; not the most fun thing to recover from. Been around many machines with this system, overall I wouldn't say it had a high failure rate, but it came up from time to time. I think because it can be a bit of a pain to recover from sometimes, people that have had to deal with it remember this issue quite well.

[extanker59]

You're right haastec. I wouldn't have said anything except the OP was talking about a '90s pallet changer that I had briefly and unfortunately worked with. I have heard that the pallet clamp system has changed since then and is much more reliable. Can you describe the newer system?

[haastec]

You're right haastec. I wouldn't have said anything except the OP was talking about a '90s pallet changer that I had briefly and unfortunately worked with. I have heard that the pallet clamp system has changed since then and is much more reliable. Can you describe the newer system?

As you know, the old HS series machine used a big pull stud on the bottome of the pallet and was clamped into position similar to a tool holder.

For the newer machines, the bottom of the pallet has a C type shape and there is a pneumatic plate that lowers which provides the clamping force. Hopefully the attached images detail this okay.

[extanker59]

Excellent! Thanks haastec. That's similar to the pallet changer I've worked with on a Matsuura. Never had any problems with that style.
Thanks again.
Chris

[moriboy1]

We bought a brand new HS-2RP in the late 90's. It was the most problematic machine we had ever purchased. No rigidity, squareness issues, pallet changer issues, tool change issues, and ballscrew issues to name a few. Sold it for a huge loss 2 years later. With that being said, we have had great success with other haas products.

[GITRDUN]

I bought 2 later 90's model HS-1RP's that both have the old style pallet clamp screw. One is installed and running the other is yet to be delivered. First one had some issues with the pallet not rotating in and out every time. Would run fine then out of no where just wouldnt rotate and would alarm out. After a bit of messing around it would go again. We quickly narrowed it down to the clamp screw not running up and down consistently. Checked the motor brush wires for the motor and they had no continuity. Pulled the brushes and they are normally worn just a tad but extremely tight coming out. The brushes seem to be the factory installed brushes but they are over sized by .002". I filed .002" off of them so they slip in easily and problem is solved. The brush caps do not have any marks showing that someone has removed them before so i would assume these are the factory brushes and this may be a common problem for these machines. Just thought id post that in case anybody else pops in here looking for a similar problem.

[haastec]

I bought 2 later 90's model HS-1RP's that both have the old style pallet clamp screw. One is installed and running the other is yet to be delivered. First one had some issues with the pallet not rotating in and out every time. Would run fine then out of no where just wouldnt rotate and would alarm out. After a bit of messing around it would go again. We quickly narrowed it down to the clamp screw not running up and down consistently. Checked the motor brush wires for the motor and they had no continuity. Pulled the brushes and they are normally worn just a tad but extremely tight coming out. The brushes seem to be the factory installed brushes but they are over sized by .002". I filed .002" off of them so they slip in easily and problem is solved. The brush caps do not have any marks showing that someone has removed them before so i would assume these are the factory brushes and this may be a common problem for these machines. Just thought id post that in case anybody else pops in here looking for a similar problem.

Good info to have out there! :cheers: