Thread: New motor/driver or controller, would love some input

**AVRnj** · 10-29-2014, 01:59 PM

I have been trying to configure my KBIC-125 controller on my PM30, with 1100 w motor that comes stock. I finished up my belt drive about a week ago, and cannot get the performance I was hoping for.

Essentially, my low speed pulleys are giving me around 1600 RPM's, which is in the ballpark of what I would expect, and the high speed pulleys, no matter how I manipulate the pots, cannot get above 2400 or so. I have blown about 10 fuses total trying to get this optimized with the manual in hand, and no matter what I change I just cannot get the higher RPM's out of the high speed pulley. For reference, the ratios should be giving me around 5500 or so RPM's on high, but its clear that to not blow a fuse, I need to keep the CL pot turned so low that the controller stops current increases when I hit about 1/8 of a turn clockwise on my speed control, and then dips down to around 1750 RPM's for the remainder of the clockwise turn to the max position.

I am kind of giving up on this, unless anyone has some great insight for me that can help me out, which would be very much welcome, I have decided to either buy a new VFD/AC motor combo, or the 1.5HP brushless motor/driver kit from Kellig.

The VFD/AD motor I would buy is the Teco 2HP 220V 1Ph in 220 3PH out with the MTR-002-3BD36 from automation direct.

The brushless combo is about $250 or so more, so I would love to get some opinions on which direction you would go.

**Fastest1** · 10-29-2014, 10:51 PM

I am running a Weiss 1100 watt on my G0704. I get around 5400 no load wide open. Mine was marked with a CCW rotation when looking down on the motor installed. It took me 2 passes to realize the spindle was going the wrong way. I switched the wiring at the KBIC and everything works fine and actually picked up a few hundred rpm (going the opposite direction of the motors marking). I did pull the brushes out to make sure they were symmetrical. My understanding is the shape of the brushes dictates whether the motor is bidirectional. Mine (and the stock one) would be but I got rid of the directional switch for the time being.

What do you get out of the motor alone in rpms?

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fastest1

I am running a Weiss 1100 watt on my G0704. I get around 5400 no load wide open. Mine was marked with a CCW rotation when looking down on the motor installed. It took me 2 passes to realize the spindle was going the wrong way. I switched the wiring at the KBIC and everything works fine and actually picked up a few hundred rpm (going the opposite direction of the motors marking). I did pull the brushes out to make sure they were symmetrical. My understanding is the shape of the brushes dictates whether the motor is bidirectional. Mine (and the stock one) would be but I got rid of the directional switch for the time being.

What do you get out of the motor alone in rpms?

With the factory settings, I was only getting around 3500 RPM's with no load, as soon as I connected it to the spindle via belt and pulleys, the spindle was only getting around 2300 RPM's.

I was able to much around with the pots to get the no load motor RPM up to 5700 or so, but that setting only got me around d1800 spindle RPM's. I have gone through about 10 fuses trying to optimize the pots, but just cannot seem to get a setting that gets my spindle speed above 2400 or so.

**Fastest1** · 10-30-2014, 02:48 PM

What kind of fuses are you using? I blew 1. I have even stalled the motor quite a few times doing extremely stupid mistakes (so much for verifying offsets before hitting cycle start)

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Fastest1

What kind of fuses are you using? I blew 1. I have even stalled the motor quite a few times doing extremely stupid mistakes (so much for verifying offsets before hitting cycle start)

I have blown about 5 of each of:

10 A 115 5x20 Fast Blow fuses
10A 115 5x20 Slow Blow fuses

Do you know what you are using?

**hoss2006** · 10-30-2014, 02:59 PM

That explains the fuses blowing, I use 25amp fuses for my kbmm-125 with the 1100 watt motor like I recommend here.
Projects
10 amp was what the stock motor/controller used.
Hoss

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 03:26 PM

Ahhh, that definitely explains it! Hoss, for some reason on my browser, that whole section is being blocked by a youtube video and I cannot read it. I have read that page about 20 times, and even tried different browsers and the youtube video blocks it on every browser.

Glad I did not order the VFD/motor yet! Going to try to get some of those fuses today, thanks!

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 03:48 PM

Hoss, I went into the HTML to view the section, I see the fuses you used are .25 x .25 x 1.25, and the fuses that came standard are the 5x20 fuses, did the bigger ones fit, or did you need to make some modifications to hold the bigger fuses?

**hoss2006** · 10-30-2014, 03:55 PM

As I said I use a kbmm-125, read the kbic-125 manual if that's what you have for what it recommends for a 1.5 hp motor.
http://www.galco.com/techdoc/kb/ic/kbic_im.pdf
Hoss

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 04:02 PM

Hoss, I get that the 25 amp fuse is the right one, I am asking more about the actual physical dimensions of the fuse itself. The physical dimensions of the 10amp fuse that comes with my mill, and I would assume yours, is a 5x20mm fuse, which is a decent amount smaller than the .25x.25x1.25" fuse that you are using. I was just asking if the bigger fuse fits in the fuse holder that came standard with your mill, or if you needed to modify it in someway

**hoss2006** · 10-30-2014, 04:15 PM

The fuses I'm talking about go on the kbmm itself, I didn't use the stock fuse holder anymore once switching to the kbmm because those 10 amp fuses that go in it aren't good enough.
Hoss

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 04:17 PM

Got it, thanks, that makes sense

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 04:59 PM

I think I see what is going on. You have the KBMM-125, which has the inline fuse holders on the board. I have the KBIC-125, which does not, so I will probably have to buy some properly rated fuse holders and figure out a way to run the wires from their existing connections, to the fuse holders I use. Kind of surprised that on my mill, with the bigger motor, they are only using 10 amp fuses, seems like they are really restricting the motor power.

**Fastest1** · 10-30-2014, 05:57 PM

I am using a 5x20 15 amp from RS in the stock inline location and the KBIC has 1 onboard as Hoss mentions. I actually popped the fuse working on it, hot. Wrapped it aluminum foil that night during testing, no load. Melted that the next morning just as I was having that oh shhh!t moment. Fortunately nothing was damaged but the foil.

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 06:08 PM

I just picked up those fuses from RS a few minutes ago at lunch. Also picked up some inline holders and some 20 amp fuses for the inline holders.

I am going to try the 15 amps first, hopefully that will be enough to get me in the 4000 RPM range on my high speed pulley. Not as high as I would like, but probably a bit safer for the 1100 watt motor.

A bit confused on the foil, why were you using the foil? So the 5x20 15 amps work well enough for you?

**Fastest1** · 10-30-2014, 09:21 PM

I had blown the fuse at night and had no others. In a fit of desperation I wrapped the blown fuse in a conductive covering, It works fine but there is no room for error usually. Now of course I have a 4 pack. Eventually or as soon as I get to my local electronics supplier, I will get a breaker in that amperage. Since I have had no issue I will stick with a 15A. I am getting 5420 ish WFO on the fastest set of pulleys.

**AVRnj** · 10-30-2014, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Fastest1

I had blown the fuse at night and had no others. In a fit of desperation I wrapped the blown fuse in a conductive covering, It works fine but there is no room for error usually. Now of course I have a 4 pack. Eventually or as soon as I get to my local electronics supplier, I will get a breaker in that amperage. Since I have had no issue I will stick with a 15A. I am getting 5420 ish WFO on the fastest set of pulleys.

Ahh, gotcha. That makes sense. Did you adjust the pots, or did you leave them at the defaults?

**Al_The_Man** · 10-30-2014, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fastest1

Wrapped it aluminum foil that night during testing, no load. Melted that the next morning Fortunately nothing was damaged but the foil.

Make sure you use 20amp foil!

Al.

**hoss2006** · 10-30-2014, 10:17 PM

The chart in the manual for the kbic-125 recommends a 25 amp fuse for the AC line for what should be a 1.5 hp motor at 90vdc, 15 amp for the DC fuse.
The manual shows the factory pot positions if you need to start over.
Hoss

**Fastest1** · 10-31-2014, 01:12 AM

I dont remember. I have had the combo for quite a while. I bench tested it many times just playing around. It shouldnt be too hard setting it up.

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