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Thread: maho mc 5 hs

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891

    maho mc 5 hs

    so, i got me a maho. eep! it was a good price and working and while an unusual horizontal machine, rather suited to the projects i have at the moment.

    trouble is, i dont know alot about it. it seems to be a bit rare compared to other universal rmahos, and virtually no info exists online about it other than 2 or 3 more for sale in europe.

    so, any help from anyone who has used one of these machines, or just the philips 432 control in general is appreciated.

    heres some pictures:
    Index of /maho/images

    its a maho MC 5 HS from about 1985 or 1986. the control has been updated to a 432/10 v603 and someone put in a renishaw probing system, although we dont know if the probe itself is still there.

    other specs as far as i can tell are:
    iso40 taper with the typical maho pin
    8000rpm spindle
    590ipm rapids
    230ipm cutting feed
    48 position tool changer
    auto pallet changer with 2 pallets
    rotary table with simultaneous 4 axis motion
    indramat ac servos on all axes, as well as spindle
    ball screws
    philips glass scales


    things id like to know are:
    can it drip feed the the v603 software??
    what pull studs does it use?
    is it better to grind the tool index pin or modify new tool holders keeping in mind this spindle is 8000rpm?
    what coolant should be used?

    im sure ill have more questions soon, haha. i have to go back and take a much more indept look over the next week or so. mostly to measure it and plan its move to my shop.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    4519
    This looks like an older model than the one I did programming for about 12 years ago. Yes, the control itself would be capable of the 6th axis, if that function were enabled. Have you even attempted to contact DMG and ask for information on this machine?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891
    Quote Originally Posted by txcncman View Post
    This looks like an older model than the one I did programming for about 12 years ago. Yes, the control itself would be capable of the 6th axis, if that function were enabled. Have you even attempted to contact DMG and ask for information on this machine?
    yes, i emailed the sales manager here, he should get back to me monday i think. most of my reading leads me to believe that dmg basically doesnt support or even know about the older machines (which is technically 4 companies ago).

    mostly im trying to find info while i sit and wait.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    4519
    If you can't get any satisfaction at all out of DMG, be sure to make a huge stink about it. Companies should not be legally allowed to carry over a company name unless they assume full responsibility for the history too. Then contact Stiles Machinery. They used to do our service on the Maho I did the programming for.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    well, we'll see.

    in the meantime though, im amazed that there is littlerally no info on this machine online. youd think there would at least be a brochure, or someone with pictures, or a video of one cutting.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    4519
    That is how rare of a machine you have. Make the best of it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891
    Quote Originally Posted by txcncman View Post
    That is how rare of a machine you have. Make the best of it.
    haha, oh, i will. its certainly a step past my novakon!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028
    You will not get any support from DMG. You may be able to get a couple parts here and there. Deckles were the same way, 6 months sometimes for parts, with weeks of trying to find it. You also need to remember, even after DMG took over, in the us it's now DMG mori seiki. There used to be a guy named don sentner that did deckels, I'm sure maho as well, but he is horrible at returning calls any longer, if he is still in business. Sorry to say, you bought a very difficult machine to support, especially now it's almost 30 years old.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891
    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    You will not get any support from DMG. You may be able to get a couple parts here and there. Deckles were the same way, 6 months sometimes for parts, with weeks of trying to find it. You also need to remember, even after DMG took over, in the us it's now DMG mori seiki. There used to be a guy named don sentner that did deckels, I'm sure maho as well, but he is horrible at returning calls any longer, if he is still in business. Sorry to say, you bought a very difficult machine to support, especially now it's almost 30 years old.
    yeah, i know its a tricky one. originally i was looking for a broken maho mh600 for a grand or 2, and would retrofit emc or mach.

    but then i found this, which didnt cost much more, and works and of course has all the nice extra features.

    so the idea now seems to be, set it up (needs reconnecting of all the wires) and use it til something breaks in the control and deal with it then, either repairing or retrofitting (which i very complex on this model).

    we had one idea here, which was to create a "new" replacement board that emulates all the philips software/hardware, but with more memory and other enhancements. might be a way to keep this machine going to many more years without the need for a full redo with a modern expensive control.

    ill be sitting on my hands for at least 3-4 more weeks, so i want to try an plan ahead as much as i can.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6028
    A retrofit would make them a nice machine. Maho and deckel both had good iron. It was always the control that was problematic. I had a chance to buy several different deckels that even ran dirt cheap. I thought about getting one to retrofit, but I have no room.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    84
    Hello Folks,

    I bought an MH600 last fall and it came with a good set of manuals. The control you have is a bit different than the one on the MH600, but the manual seems to cover the control. Publish dates are 1986/87.

    Here are some pics of the two books that might interest you and also I see you are from Canada, so I included a pic of a business card stapled inside the operating manual cover, which might be of some help to you.

    (OK, after trying to submit this post, apparently I am not allowed to post links to the pictures since I am new here. I will email them them to you if I can figure out how to do that.)

    If you are willing to pay for copying, I could take them someplace and have them scanned or copied for you. The Training Literature book is 116 pages and the Operating instruction is about 200 pages. If you just need a page or two, I could have a friend scan that for you.

    If you need more info on the contents first, let me know.

    All the best,
    Davey Boy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    84
    Me again.

    Since I now have a post, I think I am allowed to post links.

    http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...20424_0130.jpg
    http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...20424_0131.jpg

    Davey Boy

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891
    cool! the control manuals are supposed to be included with my machine, but in case theve been lost, it would be realyl cool to have a copy of yours. hopefully ill know more details this week.

    ferro technique ive talked to in the past about other things. is this a number you were given for someone who currently does work with these machines?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    84
    I don't know the details about the service number... it was written on the card by the previous owner.

    I just FINALLY got three phase in my shop last week and now have to find a way to reload the parameters for the MH600. Yikes!

    Let me know if you need something from the manuals.

    Davey Boy.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2007
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    dmg's sales rep called me this morning. hes newish, so he said he thinks they may have some degree of support for these machines. hes going to put me in touch with the service people.

    so maybe theres a glimmer of hope that the canadian branch has some older techs with knowledge of mahos. would be nice, even if its just to ask them questions.

    im lining up the first project to make on it. its a fairly simple one that would take advantage of being horozontal 4 axis. it doesnt require high precision, but its easy to measure, so we'll fid out how square things are easily.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    84
    I might need some of that service stuff myself. My machine came with a floppy disk which is supposed to have the parameters on it, but when I plugged it into a computer (took a bit to find one with a floppy drive!) the format is not recognizable to the computer.

    Does anyone know format this data would be in? I think I can input it manually, but I would need a printout or something to work from.

    Thank you,
    Davey Boy.

  17. #17
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    Jun 2007
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    3891
    floppy, oooh, fancy. mines got the parameters on paper tape.... which seems to be lost.

    are the parameters not written in the manual?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    84
    The data is on a disk, but the machine doesn't have a drive. There is a sticker in the electrical cabinet where there is supposed to be a punched tape, but I guess someone loaded the data onto a floppy at some point and ditched the tape.

    I really hope the info is in the manual(s) somewhere. There are five different manuals on top of the two I posted pictures of. When I have some spare time and can't sleep, I will go hunting.

    Davey Boy

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891
    well, its just a few more days til the machine gets delivered. woohoo.

    i got a better explanation for the orginal guy that set it up of its "state". they had apparently got dmg to check it over a few years ago. was fully working except the z axis glass scale is dirty and wont home. this should ba an easy fix i hope.

    they also bought a brand new manual from DMG. he put all the parts onto skids, and it seems nothing is missing. all the cables for the control are labeled, and theres a nice small coolant tank. he even found a iso40 toolholder than belonged to it. no pull stud however.

    im feeling pretty good about getting this running now.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    5003
    If the control runs, keep it. the 432 was one of the best controls of this time.
    Unfortunately, since 10 Years or so, it's not build anymore. The german company Heidenhain, which is world leader in rotary encoders have took over, the rest of the former Philips CNC branch. I have worked some months on the predecessor of this machine MC500 with a p6600 control. The linearencoders have a special electrical profile, thats not compatible with all others, you can buy. If such a part is defective you have a real problem. But all other parts should be available at specialised hardware dealers. But it can last months until one is to sell.
    I have a small book from 1990 who is a general manual for the philips control. it goes not in the depth, but if you have a simple question about cycles, I can see what it says.

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