[Moosewood]

Hello,
I just joined the CNCzone and have been browsing around getting some great information on all things CNC'd. I have a small one manned business wherein I create illuminated laser etched acrylic displays and currently use an Epilog 24x18 laser engraver/cutter.
This machine works fine, but is a bit small and wanted to upgrade to a much larger machine and have come across the Omnisign Plus PRO 8000 by RedDotmachinery.com from Australia. Has anyone seen or heard from them and are they a reputable company? I know that the Epilog and Universal names are perhaps the best in the industry, but I'm not sure if the Aussie brand isn't all that bad. They offer a very large (48x30 inch) 100w laser for less than 10k .

[MacGyver]

Disregarding the fact that the website is nothing but a placeholder (zero content), any machine that large for such a low price is guaranteed to be a Chinese machine with a glass tube. Take that for what it's worth...

[zax15uk]

The correct website: http://www.reddotmachinery.com.au/

I agree they do appear to be selling rebadged Chinese lasers, at least at the lower end of their product range.

I'd suggest sticking to Epilog, Universal etc.

Zax.

[Moosewood]

Thanks guys for your reply.
I agree that they may be a Chinese knock-off, however the plus side is the size of table, and the fact that the doors come off, and the tech support speaks English. Also, the USB capability and direct Corel print driver that most of the other machines from China don't have. Maybe I'm wrong about that though. I am looking for a large bed, (pass through) work area and can only afford around 10K until I get my feet wet and can upgrade to a name brand machine. Any comments about my pipe dream?

[zax15uk]

I don't see a problem with your 'pipe dream'. If that is what you can afford right now and it will enable you to build your business.

The machine looks good and you have local support, but I'm assuming you've also had a chance to see the machine up close and try it?

If so, go for it!

Zax.

[zax15uk]

I sell laser machines from China.

Ray, it may not apply to Moosewood since he's in Oz but I will certainly bookmark your site. Thanks.

Zax.

[Moosewood]

Actually Zax, I 'm from Alaska. Not "OZ". (By OZ, I assume you meant Aussie) but I might as well be just as far away! I just happened to see their advert on eBay and other sites. One strange thing is they don't have a phone contact. I bet that is common in that business but I don't see the reason why. Anyhow, since this is my first experience in these type of forums, I was trying to find "Rays" link that you attached to your last comment. I can't search him out to look at his site.

[Moosewood]

I also had a chance to look into the laser machines at http://emissiontechnologies.com. They are US built and apparently high quality. This is possibly out of my league to start off with but if it performs as advertised, it would be ideal for me. Has anyone heard of this company? Are they really as good as they seem? I talked to one of their references and he was pleased but you never know.

[MacGyver]

It's a US company using Chinese glass tubes... a relatively inexpensive way to go. I don't know what software they use to control it, but their prices for replacement tubes and power supplies are outrageous. $1,500 for a 40W tube that can be had for $250 shipped on eBay?

Last I saw the machine pricing was none too special, either... I vaguely recall $10-$15k. I'd add in a few extra grand and get a ULS or Epilog for reliability and service.

[zax15uk]

Actually Zax, I 'm from Alaska. Not "OZ". (By OZ, I assume you meant Aussie) but I might as well be just as far away! I just happened to see their advert on eBay and other sites. One strange thing is they don't have a phone contact. I bet that is common in that business but I don't see the reason why. Anyhow, since this is my first experience in these type of forums, I was trying to find "Rays" link that you attached to your last comment. I can't search him out to look at his site.

Sorry for my confusion - I got your post mixed with Jason's.

It would be just as much trouble to import a machine from Australia as it would China - especially since the equipment origin is China.

The manuals supplied with my machine were better than I had expected. I'm not sure if that was due to the US re-seller or if the manufacturer had them translated. There was also a DVD with a lot of videos on, which are helpful too.

I got an Artsign machine from http://www.mbkpinternational.com/ you might also consider the Rabbit range from http://www.the-lasersedge.com/ both US importers and re-sellers. Frank from lasersedge is often around the forums helping folk.

Ray's website is, http://www.scottware.net/ but I can't vouch for his company as I had not heard of it before. No offense Ray.

Zax.

[rayscott]

Hey guys.. No offense taken. I don't think that a lot of people have heard of my company for laser machines... We have really just begun and are already scaring the other laser sales companies.

I had been doing custom automation engineering for about ten years and got sick of it. We did about 10 to 20 unique machines a year and every customer wants to have a perfect machine, the lowest possible price, never sign off for the project to be installed and done.. then they want to pay for it 90 days or a year later. I really got sick of that.

I had already done some specialized autopunch machines, CNC retrofits, Lathe rebuilds.. and we were importing laser machines for integration to an automation line. This was close enough to laser machines for me. I figured I would switch gears and sell a few laser machines to cover the costs of keeping one for myself. The plan took a change because I actually like the Chinese laser machines. I think the US market needs a sales company that isn't too greedy.

My first large shipment of laser machines were from an ex-employee of WKLaser .. (Jack Yin). He has been on cnczone several times. I have had some real problems getting use of the warranty from this Chinese rep. You would think that a guy that buys over 20 laser machines could get a replacement laser tube.. that was under warranty. Not yet... I hope Jack reads this email and replaces my laser tube or looses a lot of future sales. My pull for warranty only lasts as long as I keep sending money to him for the next shipment.

..So we switched gears again and are importing RABBIT Laser Machines. This might be a suprise to Laser's Edge... But he has already called me to talk about each other's businesses.

We are looking for distributors around the USA to help in a "Regional" support and sales aspect. Atlanta, Georgia ... New England States.. and North Central USA(near Iowa).

You guys are welcome to email or call me too.

Ray Scott
513-320-2748
[email protected]

[Moosewood]

Ray, Thanks for the info and I have looked at your website.
Your large machines are inviting. I wish to have a large bed for working space. I have a concern about the quality of laser energy traveling to the farthest corner (bottom left? or Right?) of such a large bed . The "frosting" effect I need for my application needs to be reasonably consistent from one part of the art piece to the opposite. (I am etching acrylic and edge-lighting them with LEDs.) Any variation throughout the piece may be noticed and therefore unacceptable. Do you, or any body reading this for that matter, have any thoughts about that? So far I have had good results with an Epilog 24x18 machine but have no experience with a large bed requiring tremendous focal lengths. I would like to add I really appreciate everyone's participation in this subject. It has been a real help.
Also, Ray, are your "Rabbit" machines the same as "The Laser's Edge?"
Mark

[rayscott]

Laser's Edge is importing machines from Rabbit. We are importing machines from Rabbit. Since we both import from Rabbit...Our machines are the same as from Laser's Edge. We are also importing machines from other Chinese manufacturers on special request.

Rabbit does not make router machines.. and so we import those from another manufacturer. We have purchased a few different vinyl cutters from various companies. We like the vinyl cutters from Rabbit also.

I am having problems with Flying Technology Development.. They are refusing to uphold their warranty. .. and the WKLaser salesperson had some real issues with sales ethics and lying about other companies.

We are still looking for regional service and sales people to work from their homes.

Ray Scott
513-320-2748

[jeanyes]

Mark,

I also ran across the RedDotMachinery on Ebay and am curious about their offerings. I have not gotten an official quote from them but their website lists the pro 8000 with 100W tube at $21,450.00 AUD which currently converts to around $15,500 USD. Where are you getting the under 10K price from? Have you learned anything further about this company and their products? At the under 10K price I would have to agree that they are most likely importing Chinese lasers but their machines look very different than the ones offered by Rabbit or any of the other manufacturers often mentioned in these forums. I also like the ability to cut full 4' width sheets. I don't understand why most of the common Chinese machines stop just shy of 48 inches when standard stock size is 48" even.

Last year I purchased a Chinese made CNC router from a company called Vortech and it was a complete nightmare. I really don't want a repeat of the same frustration I had getting that machine up and "running."

[KPBadger]

Hi everyone.

i have seen the reddotmachinery offerings you are talking about - they trade on ebay also.

i am inclined to think that the CO2 laser machines ( and their routers ) come from a company called "Jinan XYZ CNC co Ltd" www.xyz-tech.com
No idea where they source their YAG equipment though.

i am basing my assumption on some of the images being the same, and the fairly distinctive black machine with bevelled red end plates ( though im sure there are other companies offering a similar styled machine )

So i would conclude that Red Dot Machinery PRO series are fairly run-of-the-mill china product with massive mark-up - by no means a bad product, but nowhere near the quality of Epilog etc.

cheers
KP

[rayscott]

I was recently asked to go fix one of the XYZ laser machines. The customer had bought it direct from China. He set it up in his home work-space but couldn't get it to work at all. I visited him and looked at the XYZ Laser machine. I really liked the machine frame design. The panels were easy to get to and doors were easily removable. It was very bulky and not at all efficient on space. But I really liked the mechanical build.

We found a few problems. One door hinge was broken, the mirrors were out of alignment, water chiller was not connected correctly, exhaust system not connected, USB driver not installed right. The problems were mostly due to "New User" issues, but the real problem was deeper. The provided PC software version was not compatible with the laser machine's firmware version. This meant that they wouldn't talk together. The solution was to reinstall the laser machine's firmware to a compatible version. The reasone I came to fix the machine is because he simply couldn't get the personal attention from workers in China. And then there is the issue of being on the other side of the world. I think this is where it is really important to purchase from a vendor inside the USA that has fully run the laser machine and knows that it works great.

I admit that the laser machines from China just are not in the same class as Epilog and Universal Laser. Lets agree to that. There is a significant difference in high-end performance, speed, quality, and appearance. The biggest difference is in the price. The massive price difference is what justifies the differences in features. Not everyone needs the top-of-the-line laser machine. The customer should assess what they need to get done with the laser. If the Chinese laser is more than capable, then why should the customer spend the extra money to purchase the more advanced machine?

My company sells Rabbit laser machines from China. You can check us out at www.scottware.net. We provide the laser machine with computer system... ready to cut and engrave. We usually deliver the machine and train the customer of how to use it for their needs. We can't do the setup at every remote location, but we try our best to give great support for those customers. We are also working to put more information on our web site. As for price, we try to offer a great price too. It is definitely worth looking at and asking for quotes.


Ray Scott
3503 Carol Ann Lane
Middletown, OH 45044
1-513-320-2748

Scottware

http://www.scottware.net

[Lowcostlasers]

In response to Moosewood's fear that quality of engraving would suffer at the extremes of travel on a large bed machine, we now have a new machine, manufactured for us in China that has the laser tube mounted on the Y axis. The machine therefore uses only two mirrors and is called half flying optics. This drastically reduces loss of beam intensity over long distances.
The machine can be supplied with 80,100 or 135 watt tubes at present.
The system is very accurate using servo drives and a choice of either belt drive, or ballscrew.
If you want further info on this, let me know as we have not yet got it posted on our website.
Table size are 1300 x 1800 and 1300 x 2500.

Regards
Steve
Low Cost Lasers Ltd

[rayscott]

There are many different designs of laser machines. The basic machines are usually enclosed housings with flying optics for each axis. The design of open-bed frames are able to cut much larger areas. The idea is to be working on large sheets of material or wide rolls. The problem for me is that the open frame system does not have the enclosure. The smaller machines have an enclosure that traps the laser radiation inside and protects the operator .. it is safety. The USA has FDA regulations to make it more difficult to import laser machines that do NOT fully enclose the laser system and incorporate safety systems for protecting the user.

Many of the Chinese manufacturers make both the enclosed and open frame laser machines. We have been advertising these laser machines on our web site since we started the company (http://www.scottware.net/home_Lasers.html select the RL-80-1525). You can see more similar models under the "specials" category. We have the 1325, 1325DP (for engraving memorial stones), 1621,and 1525. These can be purchased with nearly any specified size of laser wattage. The 1325DP probably has the best pictures of the over-head axis parts.

Our photos show that there should still be the same number of mirrors .. two mirror are fixed locations. There are 3 mirrors, but only the final mirror and focal assembly are flying. This is the "half flying" optics.

Love my corny graphics here.. LOL...

/ ---- (laser tube)
|
| [[[[[[[[[ (track)
\ ---------- \ (flying mirror)
(down tube) |
( focal lens ) F

Ray Scott
www.scottware.net
513-320-2748

[sukelasercnc]

Hello ZAX,
Good morning to you. How are you?
I am Sherry from Jinan SUKE Science& Technology CO.,LTD specialized in laser machine with more 6 years experience, also with CE&FDA certificate.
So glad to see your information about laser machine.

Firstly, introduce our laser machine breif: we are manufacturer about laser machine, also CNC Router, with 6 years experience.
Secondly, we have USA client ,they used our machine very well so far, they bought our machine in 2013 year & 2012 year. if you buy laser machine from us , we are pleasure to provide his contact information.
Thirdly, we have FDA ceritficate, it is necessary if export to USA.
At last, we have so many models of laser machine ,such as 500*300mm, 600*400mm, 900*600mm, 1200*900mm, 1300*900mm, 1400*900mm, 1500*1200mm, 1600*1000mm, 1300*2500mm, 1500*3000mm, 1600*3000mm, with different laser power: 60w/80w.100w/130w/150w/Z2 Reci/Z4 Reci/Z6 Reci tube.

Finally, dear Zax, what materials do you deal with? How is the max. size of materials? If cutting, how is the max. cutthing thickness? Tell me direclty, so that i provide best offer for you.

Email:[email protected]
Skype:sukelaser08
MSN:[email protected]
Mobile:0086-18668917435
Best regards
Sherry
Attachment 258150

Sorry for my confusion - I got your post mixed with Jason's.

It would be just as much trouble to import a machine from Australia as it would China - especially since the equipment origin is China.

The manuals supplied with my machine were better than I had expected. I'm not sure if that was due to the US re-seller or if the manufacturer had them translated. There was also a DVD with a lot of videos on, which are helpful too.

I got an Artsign machine from MBKP International you might also consider the Rabbit range from the-lasersedge.com both US importers and re-sellers. Frank from lasersedge is often around the forums helping folk.

Ray's website is, Rabbit Laser USA but I can't vouch for his company as I had not heard of it before. No offense Ray.

Zax.