[SBC Cycle]

Alright, I had a very humbling day completely dedicated to figuring out the lathe side. This has to be the fourth or fifth time I've tried to interact with the lathe module and came up empty handed (hand programmed the damn thing). I've watched two dozen video on BobCAD lathe and can't seem to find the answer to (what seems to me) a very simple question.

Can you face and turn with the same tool?

I assume you can. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? It seems to me that once I set a tool up to either face or turn, it only wants to face or turn.

Example: I set up a "Face Rough" feature to trim 0.030" from the face of the part. The orientation is a "Facing-5" (tool dynamically drawn).

I then set up a "Turn Rough" feature with a "Turn Rough" and a "Turn Basic Finish" toolpath. For the Rough or Finish tool in this feature I can go into the tool crib and manaully select the tool I used to face and everything seems fine. But when I post, it's showing a tool change. I go back to edit the feature and find that it is automatically reverting to a different tool to "Turn". It just won't take it.

I assume there is a flaw in my workflow or a misunderstanding about something but I'm completely lost. It seems that all the videos I watched skim right over tool selection.

A blank file is attached. Can someone show me a quick example of how you would face and turn the flange on the end of this part using the same tool?

[Hood]

Its been a while since I used V26 but I always used to use the same tool for facing and finish turn, usually had a different one for rough turn but not always, so yes I think it can be done.
I am not sure if V26 is still licensed on this computer but will go have a look and try your file.

Hood

[Hood]

Ok here is what I get, feeds and speeds etc will all be wrong, couldnt be arsed trying to work things out in Imperial units so just basically kept clicking next

I see it still moves to the tool change positions but calls the correct tool (same as previous) so likely is a PP issue, although maybe it always dd do that, can't really remember.

Hood

[SBC Cycle]

Well, your file looks pretty darn similar to what I had the first time before I butchered it trying to make it work. It looked ok at first until I looked at the second feature. As soon as I edit the second feature a mystery tool pops up in the "Verify Tool Assignment" dialog. I hope this video works, are you seeing what I'm seeing?

2015-04-27_1813 - RTMachine's library

Thanks for looking btw

[jrmach]

Your messages are full SBC
check your inbox at the other place

[Hood]

Just did exactly the steps you went through in the vid and mine stays the same.
Sounds like jrmach may have some info, so hopefully you get it sorted.
BTW the version I have is build 1335, just in case that makes a difference.

Hood

[jrmach]

Sounds like jrmach may have some info

Hood

Nah,I am sharing pics of cycle parts I designed and made in another life.
I know nothing about CNC Lathes

[jrmach]

SBC,are you on 1482 ?

Here is the release notes

[SBC Cycle]

I am on Build 1482, that might be the difference. Darn it, wish I had paid more attention to the lathe threads here. I might have found a workaround, I've been changing the mystery tool's tool number to the same as my "real" tool and it takes it.

[Hood]

I recall that in one version I had to have two identical tools set up to the same tool number, one for facing one for turning. However I think that was because of the simulation when defining holders to the tools rather than it automatically changing the tool number.
I think I had to define the holder differently in them and that was why I had to have the two.
I am not sure if that was V26 though, , I think it was probably V25.
I notice in the build notes it mentions that it fixes the issue you have, strange you have it and are using that build and I don't and I have an earlier build.

Hood

[The Engine Guy]

SBC Cycle/HOOD

I have found that if I go to the Tool Crib at the beginning of the job and uncheck the "Use Automatic Tool Numbering" then every feature created whether it be Turning, Facing, Threading etc, etc at the tool verification page will have Tool #1 by default, if you want different tool # then you would manually input it at that page.

So as I see it if you want both your Turning and Facing features to default to Tool #1 then just uncheck as described above, also you should see that the Orientation is correct (1 or 5) for the two different features. Wil also be defaulted to CSS

The above seems to work fine here but as I am only on a Demo for the Lathe I can`t upload a file for you to see. Of course if you haven`t actually set tool in the Tool Crib to start with then I suppose it is possible there may be some issues, I always do the tooling in the Tool Crib before I even start drawing so as you say it might just be a different workflow issue

Anyway hope it is of some help but I suspect you have already tried it

P.S. This is using an older V26 Build 1182 so it worked back then

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[SBC Cycle]

Hey guys, another day at it and I've been attempting one singular task - face with a turning tool and get that tool to "stick".

I've attached geometry to the tool and preloaded it to the crib before creating features. I've added the tool after creating features. I've tried to use the dynamically drawn tools, saved features, basically anything I can think of that might have an effect on the tooling. I have followed the Lathe Getting Started videos and Al's videos on Youtube and dozens of others. It ain't going.

It is still possible it's a workflow thing. I don't have one for the lathe yet. I re-read the release notes and now I see the note about the "fix" for tool numbering. I'm still trying to digest it to see if it will give me some insight. This is the last day I can afford to work on it, I'm going to sub it out if I can't get it done tonight.

[Malish]

I am having a few very similar problems with the lathe package in V26. When I manually change the tool number it magically changes back to tool #1, even though I set it for tool number 12. This seems to happen most when I do a rough facing followed by a finish facing, or a rough turn followed by the finish in the same operation. I have to go back and re-number the tool multiple times before it stays.

Also, the tool theoretical Z & X values keep changing. I'll put in a nose radius and the values will be roughly half the nose radius, but then if you tab thru the cutting angle it changes to match the nose radius. This is a big problem as I am not getting the correct OD/ID values when cutting due to these values changing. You can see the difference in the code how much the values change when this happens.

Attachment 279034

I tried to contact Bobcad wanting to know if it was a known issue, but they won't even talk to me without a support contract. I think I am actually invest that money into a different CAM package, one that doesn't have all the problems and work around need for the numerous issues.

[The Engine Guy]

There is no issue that I am aware of regarding this "phenomena" of misuse of the software

I keep on banging the same old drum about tool setting and choice, the image you have uploaded is the "Tool confirmation" page for want of a better description, I don`t have any of those issues with Tools.

Changing the TNR at that page is OK but it is only temporary for the Feature you are working on and that is correct where changing the TNR doesn`t change the theoretical point till you move away from the box where you changed the numbers, there is nothing wrong going on there

BC will always default to tool #1 unless otherwise instructed, the way to do that is to go to your Tool Library at the start of your job, and if you don`t have the tool you want to use in there then create it, with all it`s data you want, then create a Tool Crib for the whole Lathe job, including all the tools you want to use, facing, turning, threading, boring etc, etc.
If you set up your Tool Crib at the start then as you create features BC will populate the "Tool Confirmation" page for you, all you should need to do is check it is all correct

Now while you are at the Tool Crib if you want to make any changes to the tool numbering then "UNCHECK" the "Automatic Tool Numbering" box and you will be able to set any/all tools to any number, for example if you wanted to use the same tool for doing a turn rough and finish you would set them both to Tool#1.
Actually there is nothing stopping you from setting every tool in your tool library to #1 or any other number you fancy

Remember, although you are able to make some changes to the tooling at the "Tool Information" page that you show they will be only temporary.

The "Tool Information" page is really only there so you can confirm the INFORMATION and do a last minute change but yet again I say it, such changes are only TEMPORARY

The above are NOT "workarounds" it is the way the software is supposed to be used, example, go spend $15000 on Delcams top end FeatureCAM and you will still have to create Tool Cribs using a Tool Manager facility, almost the same as BobCAD-CAM

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[Malish]

So creating a tool on the fly for the operation is misuse of the software?

Anyways when I set the tool values on that screen like I was taught in training class the values do not stay set, especailly when I add second or third operations with the same tool. They seem to randomly change, and I can't believe this is standard / intended behavior of the software. The tool number issue is not that important as we can notice when it doesn't change to the proper tool, but the tool nose offset distances effect the actual code, which makes it a huge problem. I can take the same sketched line and program it two times and still not come out with the same code each time, which makes it very frustrating.

[The Engine Guy]

So creating a tool on the fly for the operation is misuse of the software?

Yes, of course it is, that is not the intention of the software developers, yes of course you can make changes at the "Tool Information/Confirmation" page but as it is not specifically designed for that purpose then I can only suggest that you try for a more consistant work flow, I have used over the years a number of different Cad-CAM softwares and they all have a best "work flow" that if followed will greatly reduce errors, having said that no Cad-CAM software is perfect but understanding the one you use is a big help

Anyways when I set the tool values on that screen like I was taught in training class the values do not stay set, especailly when I add second or third operations with the same tool. They seem to randomly change, and I can't believe this is standard / intended behavior of the software. The tool number issue is not that important as we can notice when it doesn't change to the proper tool, but the tool nose offset distances effect the actual code, which makes it a huge problem. I can take the same sketched line and program it two times and still not come out with the same code each time, which makes it very frustrating.

I find it difficult to understand that a trainer would instruct you in that procedure, was it a BobCAD trainer or an "In house" trainer ? ?

Well anyway, please upload a small program you have an issue with and I`m sure someone will have a look at it for you, maybe Al will chime in here and I will gracefully bow out if you are not happy with my responses as you seem to have a few ruffled feathers

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[jrmach]

I'll Bow In

Can you load a problem file ????
or
Better yet,,,,Make a video of you setting up a tool or two or three and put it on You Tube.
That will be the very BEST way to get you sorted.There are some quirks and stupid moments you got to learn to deal with.
I am with you Malish,,,I am not a fan of Bob's tools either,,,but I had to start thinking like BoB,,for better or for worse.
As a result,,I can most of the time use the tools and numbering as I want.

[The Engine Guy]

I'll Bow In

I am with you Malish,,,I am not a fan of Bob's tools either,,,but I had to start thinking like BoB,,for better or for worse.
As a result,,I can most of the time use the tools and numbering as I want.

Tut, tut, you know there is nothing wrong with the tools, just the way folks use `em

Best of luck, Lathe is a wonderful experience

[jrmach]

Well Rob,,I don't think we need to have that conversation again...................................


V23 Manual Tools worked on the Fly every single time.That is all I got to say.

[SBC Cycle]

Whoops, sorry guys didn't mean to abandon this thread. Been busy watching some videos thanks to a very helpful friend

Rob I don't doubt your experience in this area for a second, I was very much hoping you would chime in. Is there anyway possible you have a "demo" computer around that you can try this excercise in the latest build of V26 (1482)? Or anyone else for that matter?

Here's the deal. I NEVER, EVER, EVER, NOT ONCE, NOT IN THE FUTURE, NOT IN ONE SINGLE VERSION have EVER used either a: automatic tool numbering or b: "System" tools. I got my reasons and I have no idea if I'm missing some wonderful world of BobCAD but I don't use them. Creating tools "on the fly" is a disaster waiting to happen and I've just accepted that.

Alright, now that I've established that, build 1482 will not face with a "turning" tool and not turn with a "facing" tool. If you try to turn and face with the same tool BobCAD will disregard one or the other and create it's own "System" tool. This is what I am seeing and my only question is whether I am using the software wrong by attempting to turn and face with the same tool. It seems a common task so my assumption is that I'm doing it wrong or there is a bug. I'm ok with a bug, I will simply workaround it (already have). But am I off base here thinking I should be able to face and turn with something like a CNMG which is fairly neutral? I'll post a file in just a moment.